Big Picture Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said: But the game hasn't grown in toronto the ORL club numbers shrank That's because Minor League Rugby came along and gave the RU players who played RL during their offseason another outlet which they saw as more worthwhile than a small grassroots RL competition with a very short season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themusician_2 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Just now, Big Picture said: That's because Minor League Rugby came along and gave the RU players who played RL during their offseason another outlet which they saw as more worthwhile than a small grassroots RL competition with a very short season. So what solutions has the orl come up with to deal with the dilemma? Are the pack even assisting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefieldCityLoyal Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: How many Super League clubs could survive without their central funding? Wakefield Trinity RLFC did it. Up the Trin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Themusician_2 said: So what solutions has the orl come up with to deal with the dilemma? Are the pack even assisting? I don't have contact with either organization so I can't answer that. The dilemma is the same for new RL organizations in most countries which see RU players as their natural target to recruit players and build teams. Canada and the US are unique in having another potential target for recruits, those being former gridiron players who don't have ties to RU. In other countries RU players are about the only prospects with both transferable skills and prior experience/liking of contact sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Big Picture said: I don't have contact with either organization so I can't answer that. The dilemma is the same for new RL organizations in most countries which see RU players as their natural target to recruit players and build teams. Canada and the US are unique in having another potential target for recruits, those being former gridiron players who don't have ties to RU. In other countries RU players are about the only prospects with both transferable skills and prior experience/liking of contact sports. Not that old chestnut again , Grid iron players don't have the skills needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: Not that old chestnut again , Grid iron players don't have the skills needed Many will not but others will, especially those who've also played RU which is fairly common with Canadian gridiron players. The only other alternative is to try developing RL at lower levels by attracting RU players to play RL during the RU offseason which in all of Canada except for British Columbia is just a few weeks either side of a long, snowy winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themusician_2 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Big Picture said: I don't have contact with either organization so I can't answer that. The dilemma is the same for new RL organizations in most countries which see RU players as their natural target to recruit players and build teams. Canada and the US are unique in having another potential target for recruits, those being former gridiron players who don't have ties to RU. In other countries RU players are about the only prospects with both transferable skills and prior experience/liking of contact sports. So the million pound question is (especially in the USA) why the reliance on union players in the US and Canada when they're are superior athletes and numbers playing gridiron which will translate easier to our game. I tried asking that to one of the stockyard account on this forum and the person said that they tried to recruit none rugby players but it didn't work. The person never elaborated on why it didn't work and why it can work for RU in NA and not RL but oh well I guess we'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanto Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 42 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said: Toronto get good crowds I'll give them that and they are a good marketing tool for the advertisement of the growth of RL to attract investors and sponsors but it ends there. Toronto don't contribute to the talent pool, the don't bring new cash to the game(i.e. no tv deal). People need to stop pretending they are RL messiah it does nothing for the increase in popularity of RL here in England. It wont increase the strength of the game here. In Canada it can do those things if done right which is the exciting part but not here. And the game has declined in Toronto under their watch ORL club numbers are down not up. Still a long way to go . I still can't fathom how some people on this forum think they bring more than our traditional clubs that have a 100+ year advantage. The honeymoon phase is long over well done Toronto welcome to SL now lets see them fulfill your promises or was these simply marketing ploys? Bring us the tv deal and grow RL in Canada(participation!!)and no not "rugby in general" RUGBY LEAGUE! WOW after three years they have done what 100 year old clubs in the traditional heartlands have failed to do....bring in the crowds and believe it or not progressed from championship one to Super League .....on merit..no helping hand ..all their own work. Im sure this was a five year plan so Wolfpack are two years a head of what they set out to do. Pretty impressive or not ?? The game has seen a decline in Yorkshire and Lancashire and Cumbria ..100 year old tradition in these areas...yet you say its in decline in Toronto ...virgin ground... ..talent pool is down all over(though I disagree with this when you see how many Brits are cutting it in the NRL at the moment) thats not Wolfpacks fault..look closer to home for answers to why . Toronto will deliver more in SL than another small West Yorkshire town...just look at the vibes they have created since they came in to the competition. Yep a few thousand flat cappers are dissapointed that the marketing ploy and promises have not yet been fulfilled two years ahead of the target. Again Pretty impressive though ....or not ??? Honeymoon over ?? The Wolfpack are still at the wedding reception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert1 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Hopefully teams in York, Newcastle, Ottawa etc can reach an elite level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickB Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 4 hours ago, DiH68 said: Because... because.... NO AWAY FANS! (As opposed to the thousands that travel a few miles down the M62 from places like Huddersfield every week, and despite the fact they get bigger home crowds than some existing SL teams). But still.... NO AWAY FANS ... I can’t believe you haven’t learnt the mantra by now The other teams should focus on getting their own bum in their seats more, and not worry how many fans come over. Even If Fev didn't bring any fans over today, we still would have had more than 9500 in the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themusician_2 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, yanto said: WOW after three years they have done what 100 year old clubs in the traditional heartlands have failed to do....bring in the crowds and believe it or not progressed from championship one to Super League .....on merit..no helping hand ..all their own work. Im sure this was a five year plan so Wolfpack are two years a head of what they set out to do. Pretty impressive or not ?? The game has seen a decline in Yorkshire and Lancashire and Cumbria according to stats yet you say its in decline in Toronto ...virgin ground... ..talent pool is down all over(though I disagree with this when you see how many Brits are cutting it in the NRL at the moment) thats not Wolfpacks fault..look closer to home for answers to why . Toronto will deliver more in SL than another small West Yorkshire town...just look at the vibes they have created since they came in to the competition. Yep a few thousand flat cappers are dissapointed that the marketing ploy and promises have not yet been fulfilled two years ahead of the target. Again Pretty impressive though ....or not ??? Honeymoon over ?? The Wolfpack are still at the wedding reception They did it with money from their sugar daddy. Heartland clubs rely on grassroots strength. Without m62 players Toronto would not be in super league. The population of Toronto is 2.9 million and the whole gta area is 5 million. Yet the ORL only got two clubs.(and they use to have 5) Per captia the heartlands have a far stronger player base even with declining numbers. Pulling spectators is no longer impressive many clubs have been there and done that what makes you think Toronto will not suffer the same fate as other heartland clubs? In 5 years time the hype will die down and we'll see how good the crowds are. Grassroots growth and and creating proper RL fans is what sustains RL clubs everywhere in the world. Having a mini Oktoberfest with a league game in between can only get you so far. How long must I wait to see RL participation grow? How many yawnion events must the wolfpack sponsor before we say enough is enough? As I said the honey moon is over it's time we got results don't fall for wolfpack marketing talk lets have an honest conversation on the state of rugby league in Toronto which is a conversation most pro packers here don't want to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omott91 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 57 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said: They did it with money from their sugar daddy. Heartland clubs rely on grassroots strength. Without m62 players Toronto would not be in super league. The population of Toronto is 2.9 million and the whole gta area is 5 million. Yet the ORL only got two clubs.(and they use to have 5) Per captia the heartlands have a far stronger player base even with declining numbers. Pulling spectators is no longer impressive many clubs have been there and done that what makes you think Toronto will not suffer the same fate as other heartland clubs? In 5 years time the hype will die down and we'll see how good the crowds are. Grassroots growth and and creating proper RL fans is what sustains RL clubs everywhere in the world. Having a mini Oktoberfest with a league game in between can only get you so far. How long must I wait to see RL participation grow? How many yawnion events must the wolfpack sponsor before we say enough is enough? As I said the honey moon is over it's time we got results don't fall for wolfpack marketing talk lets have an honest conversation on the state of rugby league in Toronto which is a conversation most pro packers here don't want to have. If you cannot see the positives that they bring yet, I would suggest a trip to Specsavers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krzzystuff Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Man of Kent said: So it’s a fact Super League can’t grow without Toronto? Has it grown without us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnyason Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 3 hours ago, fcl said: I do not like Toronto for several reasons: The first is that this team is not a Canadian team. She has no history and does not correspond at all to the idea I have of a sports competition. I am French but I do not forget where the indentity of our sport comes from. If commercial franchises are the future of our discipline and well I think that I may be changing favorite sport. Yeah somewhat agree. There a very Melbourne storm style concept. Without the recruitment officers in pacific, nz and queensland. I hope toulouse keep at it next season there be fair bit of expectation playing at ernest and being probably favourites to go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoketrail Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Wondering why a well heeled sport loving person would invest in a small town 100+ year old parochial rugby league club then a vibrant city without all that baggage. Time to evolve or die. Loving all the moaners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Cardinal Ximinez : *Nobody* expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise, surprise and fear, fear and surprise. Our *two* weapons are fear and surprise, and ruthless efficiency. Our *three* weapons are fear and surprise and ruthless efficiency and an almost fanatical dedication to the pope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copa Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 4 hours ago, fcl said: I do not like Toronto for several reasons: The first is that this team is not a Canadian team. She has no history and does not correspond at all to the idea I have of a sports competition. I am French but I do not forget where the indentity of our sport comes from. If commercial franchises are the future of our discipline and well I think that I may be changing favorite sport. It’s definitely a clash of sporting cultures but it doesn’t mean you have to change the way you support the sport. Canadians will do what they do and the French can still do it the French way. Here in Australia we have a hybrid of commercial franchises and clubs built from grass roots up. In my opinion, the diversity of sporting cultures can make SL stronger and more attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojx Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 34 minutes ago, Copa said: It’s definitely a clash of sporting cultures but it doesn’t mean you have to change the way you support the sport. Canadians will do what they do and the French can still do it the French way. Here in Australia we have a hybrid of commercial franchises and clubs built from grass roots up. In my opinion, the diversity of sporting cultures can make SL stronger and more attractive. We don't need mature ideas like this, it will kill the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 5 hours ago, WakefieldCityLoyal said: Wakefield Trinity RLFC did it. Up the Trin Did they pay the expense's of the visiting teams like Toronto are doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 7 hours ago, Man of Kent said: So it’s a fact Super League can’t grow without Toronto? He didn’t say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 8 hours ago, Niels said: Their comments about the North are inappropriate and the same as the ones used to insult us by Union fans. I agree the insults are unnecessary and taking the mickey is much more fun anyway! 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackroman Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 9 hours ago, fcl said: I do not like Toronto for several reasons: The first is that this team is not a Canadian team. She has no history and does not correspond at all to the idea I have of a sports competition. I am French but I do not forget where the indentity of our sport comes from. If commercial franchises are the future of our discipline and well I think that I may be changing favorite sport. The identity of the sport is changing. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 7 hours ago, yanto said: WOW after three years they have done what 100 year old clubs in the traditional heartlands have failed to do....bring in the crowds and believe it or not progressed from championship one to Super League .....on merit..no helping hand ..all their own work. Im sure this was a five year plan so Wolfpack are two years a head of what they set out to do. Pretty impressive or not ?? The game has seen a decline in Yorkshire and Lancashire and Cumbria ..100 year old tradition in these areas...yet you say its in decline in Toronto ...virgin ground... ..talent pool is down all over(though I disagree with this when you see how many Brits are cutting it in the NRL at the moment) thats not Wolfpacks fault..look closer to home for answers to why . Toronto will deliver more in SL than another small West Yorkshire town...just look at the vibes they have created since they came in to the competition. Yep a few thousand flat cappers are dissapointed that the marketing ploy and promises have not yet been fulfilled two years ahead of the target. Again Pretty impressive though ....or not ??? Honeymoon over ?? The Wolfpack are still at the wedding reception See , this is where I take insult from posts like this , these 100 he old clubs have played in and won the ' top tier ' , they have played in front of big crowds , they are still around after 100 years Now Toronto are attracting great attendances , but we have seen similar before and another few years down the line these clubs have disappeared , so let's see how we go , I genuinely hope it works and they continue to prosper , huge respect for David Argyle as I have for anybody willing to invest in our sport be that in Toronto ,Coventry or Keighley But insulting fans if clubs who invented the game won't endear you to anybody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Omott91 said: If you cannot see the positives that they bring yet, I would suggest a trip to Specsavers. If you cannot see the issues they have then I would suggest a trip to Specsavers , See it's easy to insult , they offer huge potential , but we do need to hope that they can use that potential and their current positives to genuinely help develop RL ( not just RUGBY ) in Ontario and Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark S Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 8 hours ago, Themusician_2 said: They did it with money from their sugar daddy. Heartland clubs rely on grassroots strength. Without m62 players Toronto would not be in super league. The population of Toronto is 2.9 million and the whole gta area is 5 million. Yet the ORL only got two clubs.(and they use to have 5) Per captia the heartlands have a far stronger player base even with declining numbers. Pulling spectators is no longer impressive many clubs have been there and done that what makes you think Toronto will not suffer the same fate as other heartland clubs? In 5 years time the hype will die down and we'll see how good the crowds are. Grassroots growth and and creating proper RL fans is what sustains RL clubs everywhere in the world. Having a mini Oktoberfest with a league game in between can only get you so far. How long must I wait to see RL participation grow? How many yawnion events must the wolfpack sponsor before we say enough is enough? As I said the honey moon is over it's time we got results don't fall for wolfpack marketing talk lets have an honest conversation on the state of rugby league in Toronto which is a conversation most pro packers here don't want to have. The sport really needs to move away from the chippy attitude towards teams that have financial support. If we want to game to survive (never mind grow) in the modern world it needs money. Having a village from West Yorkshire in SL would have put the game back 25 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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