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6 hours ago, Omott91 said:

If you cannot see the positives that they bring yet, I would suggest a trip to Specsavers. 

If you cannot see the issues they have then I would suggest a trip to Specsavers 

, See it's easy to insult , they offer huge potential , but we do need to hope that they can use that potential and their current positives to genuinely help develop RL ( not just RUGBY ) in Ontario and Canada 

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8 hours ago, Themusician_2 said:

They did it with money from their sugar daddy. Heartland clubs rely on grassroots strength. Without m62 players Toronto would not be in super league. The population of Toronto is 2.9 million and the whole gta area is 5 million. Yet the ORL only got two clubs.(and they use to have 5) Per captia the heartlands have a far stronger player base even with declining numbers. Pulling spectators is no longer impressive many clubs have been there and done that what makes you think Toronto will not suffer the same fate as other heartland clubs? In 5 years time the hype will die down and we'll see how good the crowds are. Grassroots growth and and creating proper RL fans is what sustains RL clubs everywhere in the world. Having a mini Oktoberfest with a league game in between can only get you so far. How long must I wait to see RL participation grow?  How many yawnion events must the wolfpack sponsor before we say enough is enough? As I said the honey moon is over it's time we got results don't fall for wolfpack marketing talk lets have an honest conversation on the state of rugby league in Toronto which is a conversation most pro packers here don't want to have.

The sport really needs to move away from the chippy attitude towards teams that have financial support. If we want to game to survive (never mind grow) in the modern world it needs money. 

Having a village from West Yorkshire in SL would have put the game back 25 years.

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2 minutes ago, Mark S said:

The sport really needs to move away from the chippy attitude towards teams that have financial support. If we want to game to survive (never mind grow) in the modern world it needs money. 

Having a village from West Yorkshire in SL would have put the game back 25 years.

While your last line is perhaps true , the sport still needs these West Yorkshire villages to provide the players for your big city newcomers , so maybe a bit less ' chippines ' on both sides would improve things 

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Do professional or semi professional clubs develop their own players though? Seems like double standards. All some do is occasionally visit some schools and run an academy which has plucked players from the community game. 

Theres just a lot of angry people out there and an issue like this is an outlet for it. It’s not like Featherstone have been closed down with all the proceeds going to Toronto for goodness sake!

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6 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

This comment is typical of the thought process of people who are new to a sport but believe they are being revolutionary and that they can show the way to the already established clubs.

 

Yep typical comment and thought process of a new fan.

I watched my first game last night and loved it  🤣🤣🤣🤣

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10 hours ago, The British Lion said:

Absolutely thrilled for Toronto Wolfpack!

Exciting times. The 'potential' of new beginnings that our sport in the Northern Hemisphere desperately needs.

I look forward to visiting Toronto v Warrington while visiting my son in Montreal in 2020!

Warrington fans struggle to make the 12 mile journey to the AJ Bell. Your ambition to make the 338 from Montreal to Toronto is outstanding

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1 minute ago, Mushy said:

Do professional or semi professional clubs develop their own players though? Seems like double standards. All some do is occasionally visit some schools and run an academy which has plucked players from the community game. 

Theres just a lot of angry people out there and an issue like this is an outlet for it. It’s not like Featherstone have been closed down with all the proceeds going to Toronto for goodness sake!

It isn't as simple as that , but the local town club does influence the take up of juniors at the community clubs in their area , who then might well go on to sign on at an academy at a SL club , it is essentially that which we are suggesting we want to see at Toronto , them to use their influence in getting Rugby balls into kids hands playing RUGBY LEAGUE in Canada

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41 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

See , this is where I take insult from posts like this , these 100 he old clubs have played in and won the ' top tier ' , they have played in front of big crowds , they are still around after 100 years 

Now Toronto are attracting great attendances , but we have seen similar before and another few years down the line these clubs have disappeared , so let's see how we go , I genuinely hope it works and they continue to prosper , huge respect for David Argyle as I have for anybody willing to invest in our sport be that in Toronto ,Coventry or Keighley 

But insulting fans if clubs who invented the game won't endear you to anybody 

No insult intended.... just an opinion .

I have followed a small Town Northern Club for over 40 years..(a real fervent traditionalist me ),to League one,four Lancashire cup finals and before my time Wembley and Premiership winners to being on the verge of going out of business  yet even I realise the game has to attract new investment to grow.

Three years down the line and I dont see Toronto slowing down like Paris,South Wales,Mansfield,Trafford Borough,Kent Invicta  etc etc .

It seems to me that a lot of people want them to fail for their own reasons.

 

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9 hours ago, Themusician_2 said:

Toronto get good crowds I'll give them that and they are a good marketing tool for the advertisement of the growth of RL to attract investors and sponsors but it ends there. Toronto don't contribute to the talent pool, the don't bring new cash to the game(i.e. no tv deal). People need to stop pretending they are RL messiah it does nothing for the increase in popularity of RL here in England. It wont increase the strength of the game here. In Canada it can do those things if done right which is the exciting part but not here. And the game has declined in Toronto under their watch ORL club numbers are down not up. Still a long way to go . I still can't fathom how some people on this forum think they bring more than our traditional clubs that have a 100+ year advantage. The honeymoon phase is long over well done Toronto welcome to SL now lets see them fulfill your promises or was these simply marketing ploys? Bring us the tv deal and grow RL in Canada(participation!!

That's a great post calling out TWP for their bluff and bluster. I recall when Featherstone were set for Superleague under an investor called Faisal Nahaboo, the man took fright and resigned, and Featherstone collapsed accordingly. They were saved by linking with Leeds on the dual registration system basically acting as a player nursery for Leeds. Yesterdays TWP victory was a £2Million professional team beating a part time Leeds Nursery team, and not by a lot at that.   What an achievement😉

McDermott has obviously been given his script by his paymaster to continue to spout the propoganda that if there's one club we can't do without it's TWP, because they are the first of many big cities that are going to get on board with RL. As I have always said and as all the dreamers on here won't answer is what happens if you repeat the TWP model again and again? Replace HKR with Barcelona? Huddersfield with Ottawa? Salford with New York, Wakefield with Belgrade, Castleford with Copenhagen? I've neen asking this for three years and nobody from the "expansion" brigade ever answers it. They mock and insult but they don't answer the key question.

Anyone can spout the stuff McDermott has been told to spout, but nobody can back it. If anyone really thinks that closing SL clubs down and shipping their players off to big cities thousands of miles away is going to make all the people who run and support player development in towns along the M62 happy, they are deluded. Their interest in the game lies in. and lies with their local clubs not being servants to Vancouver. 

Back the the OP - Does anyone "HATE" TWP?............It's a daft question, the real question is does anyone believe progressively replacing M62 clubs with NA clubs will work. Again nobody want to answer this but the clear plan as articulated by Perez is New York, Ottawa, Montreal and Vancouver in Superleague in place of four existing SL clubs by 2016. That's to get the NA content to get the massive NATV deal promised. This is ridiculous but about 30 people on here who seem to think they are a majority voice (despite there being about 150,000 RL fans) are convinced it's a "cunning plan" OR they were so enthused and lapped it up at the start that they don't have the guts to admit they were wrong. Easier on this type of media to chuck insults and mock people rather than answer the concerns.

I am absolutely fine with TWP going up and it's a shame they didn't go up last year. If they had then most fans in the game would know by now that they are what they are, an average M62 team owned by an Australian, based in Manchester who rent a ground in Ottawa to pretend to be the start of a Rugby League revolution in North America. Not that they are. The first "Start" was when Perez re-started Canada RL that's failed 10 years on, the second start was the Denver test to enthuse NA fans for the NA RL World Cup.

They pulled it, nobody was interested.

At some point fans of the American dream need to stop just pulling their tongues out, and RL journalists need to give us some more serious analysis rather than repeat the TWP party line Macca has been made to repeat.  As for fellow SL clubs what went wrong there? How did they ever manage to get stuck with a club they don't want and their chairman they don't like.

And this is an important point, as per the negotiations for TWP to enter apparently SL chairmen were dead set against it, and things got heated with Argyle having a go back at them. That was a rumour at the time but Macca actually confirms it. Superleague is not a happy camp with this massive multi $$Million loss making phoney club, who will never produce a single NA player or big TV deal, and will never be followed by another NA club as SL chairmen won't make the same mistake twice.

So where are we with it? Well it's not the end game, job done as TWP fans want to gloat. It is certainly The end of the honeymoon and with the SKY TV deal ending in a couple of years that will be the end of TWP, which could have been earlier than now if SL had been allowed to drop to 10 clubs as they wanted to do or this year so desperate were they not to have TWP.

For me TWP really need to be exposed and not just kicked out. Had they been refused SL we would have suffered an avalanche of posts as to how  the game had losttheir only chance of survival and signed their own death warrant. We need them to go into SL and show us how it's rally done and deliver on all what I know, is phoney baloney.

Edited by The Parksider
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10 hours ago, Eddie said:

Montreal is a new one. I’d have thought Jacksonville would be an obvious fourth team, then Tampa bay. 

Does not Miami make more sense? Major airport.  We would then play Miami Twice.

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8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It isn't as simple as that , but the local town club does influence the take up of juniors at the community clubs in their area , who then might well go on to sign on at an academy at a SL club , it is essentially that which we are suggesting we want to see at Toronto , them to use their influence in getting Rugby balls into kids hands playing RUGBY LEAGUE in Canada

Yes I think we are in agreement. The point I was making was that the anger and hated towards Toronto seems disproportionate, misguided, and would represent another example of what the Wolfpack have to do that the other lazy super leagues don’t. Personally I don’t like the ‘rugby’ bit either but I suspect Toronto have thought it through and I hope we see some Canadian players before too long. 

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has the filter been applied ?? 

fervent traditionalist becomes "fervent traditionalist " in the above post !!!!!!!!  

 

EDITED 

f l a t c a p p e r is no longer allowed and I was talking about myself !!!!

Edited by yanto

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8 hours ago, Themusician_2 said:

Creating proper RL fans. 

I stopped reading after that comment. People are right to point out TW aren’t the saviours of the game but what they have achieved in 3yrs is remarkable; unprecedented in the SL era IMO. 

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3 minutes ago, yanto said:

No insult intended.... just an opinion .

I have followed a small Town Northern Club for over 40 years..(a real fervent traditionalist me ),to League one,four Lancashire cup finals and before my time Wembley and Premiership winners to being on the verge of going out of business  yet even I realise the game has to attract new investment to grow.

Three years down the line and I dont see Toronto slowing down like Paris,South Wales,Mansfield,Trafford Borough,Kent Invicta  etc etc .

It seems to me that a lot of people want them to fail for their own reasons.

 

That is so true.

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Some people really are very angry, I just don’t get it. There’s a climate emergency and we are danger of ending up in a recession if things don’t sort themselves out in the next couple of weeks. But hey, get all your frustrations out on a rugby league team who have done everything that was asked of them to be promoted. 

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12 hours ago, Damien said:

Fear.

Morning, quite right it is fear, not of the Toronto club it is fear of what will have to give over here, the more Canadian/NA  club's that come into existence can you not see they will be completely dependent on our resources over here and of course a few antipodeans.

We have a very limited pool of RL player's in the UK, the trend in producing player's is going down not up, the equation is quite simple the more it is divided up something has to give, these 'new' clubs will want the best player's and that could well impact on our clubs over here, if you are quite happy with that scenario then that is your prerogative, I ain't, and when the push comes to shove and SL realises it will be they that are effected they will nip the NA 'expansion' process in the bud, I can't see any other teams from that part of the world being allowed to join Toronto in our premier Division for a long time.

I saw last evening you commented on McDermott talking a load of sense, I would have loved to be the interviewer and ask him how these new teams he mentions would be furnished with player's and did he envisage any consequential fall out for the game in the UK from such action.

On s side note Damien, did I assume  correctly that you are a Wigan fan, if so do you come from and live in the town?

That being the case did you ever go or still attend St Pats, Rosebridge, At Jude's Orrell St James, Ince St William's, Hindley, Haydock etc I have been involved with the Amatuer RL for a very long time, the scene today is not recognisable from only 20 to 30 years ago, we need to get our own house in order, I have posted a suggestion on another thread the one titled "I hope it's not wasted", have a look see if you agree.

Edited by Harry Stottle
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7 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

This comment is typical of the thought process of people who are new to a sport but believe they are being revolutionary and that they can show the way to the already established clubs.

Yes, Toronto deserve their place in Super League because of their achievements so far .... but it is that "so far" comment which is the key factor.

At the moment Toronto Wolfpack are a novelty and are on the way up. Yet let's wait until that novelty wears off and success isn't as easy as it is now - let's then see if the support continues.

Yes, good luck to them and I truly wish them success but I'd wait a few years before crowing about their standing within the game of Rugby League.

This is rather amusing. You have misjudged Yanto I fear.  


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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10 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

That's a great post calling out TWP for their bluff and bluster. I recall when Featherstone were set for Superleague under an investor called Faisal Nahaboo, the man took fright and resigned, and Featherstone collapsed accordingly. They were saved by linking with Leeds on the dual registration system basically acting as a player nursery for Leeds. Yesterdays TWP victory was a £2Million professional team beating a part time Leeds Nursery team, and not by a lot at that.   What an achievement😉

McDermott has obviously been given his script by his paymaster to continue to spout the propoganda that if there's one club we can't do without it's TWP, because they are the first of many big cities that are going to get on board with RL. As I have always said and as all the dreamers on here won't answer is what happens if you repeat the TWP model again and again? Replace HKR with Barcelona? Huddersfield with Ottawa? Salford with New York, Wakefield with Belgrade, Castleford with Copenhagen? I've neen asking this for three years and nobody from the "expansion" brigade ever answers it. They mock and insult but they don't answer the key question.

Thought that was a revealing interview last night with McDermott.

There was tacit acknowledgement that Toronto is a doomed venture in terms of a TV deal. 

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I think Toronto can be and I hope it will be a great shot in the arm for RL.  If so it is badly needed because frankly the game is in decline, the world is passing it by.  But sadly that has been always the same even back In the head days of gates of 20,000 plus.  The game is a poi r relation... just look (tragically!) at the interest and the gates in the RU WC

There are some issues though with Toronto.    When will it produce it's own players (how many spare NRL players can there be?)??    And crucially... as I have said several times recently... IF Toronto stay up, then who from the remaining 11 (with all their extra €120k central funding) is going to go down.

 

Does anybody seriously think there will continue to be relegation at the end of next season??

 

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18 minutes ago, Mushy said:

Some people really are very angry, I just don’t get it. There’s a climate emergency and we are danger of ending up in a recession if things don’t sort themselves out in the next couple of weeks. But hey, get all your frustrations out on a rugby league team who have done everything that was asked of them to be promoted. 

All three issues are avatars for the same disagreements. 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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43 minutes ago, yanto said:

Yep typical comment and thought process of a new fan.

I watched my first game last night and loved it  🤣🤣🤣🤣

You Johnny come lately fans need to get with the programme.... 

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Just now, Rupert Prince said:

Sky News are a totally useless organisation, not far behind the BBC.

They did mention a nail biting result of NZ 71 - Namibia 9.

 

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