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Roy Haggerty

Toronto Love (Merged threads)

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2 hours ago, Loup said:

Toronto's departing gift to the Championship may be the continuation of tv coverage next season, according to Ralph Rimmer.

https://www.totalrl.com/rfl-speaks-to-sky-about-championship-coverage/?fbclid=IwAR1vY6tpE3JA24sDcWCuitV7gryKR0g61vmqua8iVUxR5GB-zwp5t2X3IwU

I'm surprised they didn't require TWP to continue to pay for a Championship Match of the Week as well. 

Or that and a League 1 game as well and then just settle for the formet as a negotiation tactic.

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On 9 October 2019 at 13:43, Kayakman said:

But was not the first year when we were in League 1?

Confusing cap and quota.

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1 hour ago, dixiedean said:

Confusing cap and quota.

I just don't really understand it to be honest.

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See that the Toronto player's have all now come home most off them to the North West, just been on the regional TV news programme, getting ready to start training again at their North West base in Manchester, just worked out if they are allowed to play away from Canada again for the start of the season, it will be about 6 months away before they are seen again in Canada. 

Where's my mate K'man to tell me again that they are Canadian's!

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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

See that the Toronto player's have all now come home most off them to the North West, just been on the regional TV news programme, getting ready to start training again at their North West base in Manchester, just worked out if they are allowed to play away from Canada again for the start of the season, it will be about 6 months away before they are seen again in Canada. 

Where's my mate K'man to tell me again that they are Canadian's!

We Canadians love to travel and you know it....no apologies from us Canadians for having a knowledgeable world view of things.

Hope our Canadian boys enjoy their well earned vacations before returning back HOME to TORONTO!

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5 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

We Canadians love to travel and you know it....no apologies from us Canadians for having a knowledgeable world view of things.

Hope our Canadian boys enjoy their well earned vacations before returning back HOME to TORONTO!

God loves a trier, they say, keep up the good work you will get your pass key for the pearly gates😉

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Just been a nice piece on Toronto on BBC North West Tonight

Edited by Padge

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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3 hours ago, Kayakman said:

I just don't really understand it to be honest.

Nah. It is hugely confusing. There is a salary cap on how much you can pay in salaries. 

With a Byzantine series of exemptions and reductions and clauses.

Then there is a quota of number of "overseas" players you can have.

With a huge number of exemptions.  

Only those in the business, and the uber geeky fully understand it.

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11 hours ago, Kayakman said:

I just don't really understand it to be honest.

Don't worry the whole of TGG and the UK is based on similar lack of understanding because no one repeat no person understands how it really works. That way we can pass endless hours of forum typing to talk nonsense about how we disagree with something we never had a grasp of in the first place!

Even those that claim to understand only comprehend a small portion and where would we all end up if we thought it started to make sense?

Parkyville!

Blissful ignorance is what made Britain great!

Edited by Oxford
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“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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14 hours ago, Padge said:

Just been a nice piece on Toronto on BBC Look Northwest. 

Padge its North West Tonight, you will have all those clamouring for TWP info from out of the area searching the airwaves and not being able to locate it.👍

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4 hours ago, Oxford said:

Don't worry the whole of TGG and the UK is based on similar lack of understanding because no one repeat no person understands how it really works. That way we can pass endless hours of forum typing to talk nonsense about how we disagree with something we never had a grasp of in the first place!

Even those that claim to understand only comprehend a small portion and where would we all end up if we thought it started to make sense?

Parkyville!

Blissful ignorance is what made Britain great!

Agree with that Oxy, and this something I have always been critical about why we can't have a simplified version, so that everyone understands precisely what is and isn't  allowed on the cap and overseas player allowance, and when I say everyone that is exactly what I mean including all the fans of the game, but for it to work properly the player's saleries would have to be disclosed, but it can be done, remember a few years ago when some player's wives/partners would be employed by the club in the capacity  of a cleaner for 2 hours a week and be paid £40,000 a year for the privaledge.

Now call me sceptical but for years I have often wondered how some teams can congregate the best player's, being those player's who one would think can command the best salaries and can keep employing them season after season.

 

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13 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Agree with that Oxy, and this something I have always been critical about why we can't have a simplified version, so that everyone understands precisely what is and isn't  allowed on the cap and overseas player allowance, and when I say everyone that is exactly what I mean including all the fans of the game, but for it to work properly the player's saleries would have to be disclosed, but it can be done, remember a few years ago when some player's wives/partners would be employed by the club in the capacity  of a cleaner for 2 hours a week and be paid £40,000 a year for the privaledge.

Now call me sceptical but for years I have often wondered how some teams can congregate the best player's, being those player's who one would think can command the best salaries and can keep employing them season after season.

 

I think we're all aware of some aspect of this happening to varying extents at any sports club that operates under a salary cap. That the cap is effectively being disintegrated by various loopholes etc as well as the basic increase to just over 2 million iirc demonstrates that it is just too low to be competitive.

One thing I would add is that often players will play for less money at bigger clubs as they value success over monetary gain - thus to go to a "lesser club" a player would probably be have to be incentivised more. Its also true that our cap is so small than any increase in salary is likely to be relatively small anyhow. 

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7 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

Some actual positivity and shows the views of people outside of a few upset Englishman on this forum.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/10/08/wolfpack-win-frosty-promotion-from-super-league-clubs/

As far as this fan of the game is concerned I quote:

"But while this was happening, a quiet wave of discontent was building across the Atlantic. One can only speculate that it stems from a tinge of jealousy"

There is not one ounce of jealousy from me, but there is a ton of fear, not fear that Toronto will do well, but fear that it could do great harm to the sport in the UK, especially if more new teams from your continent are allowed in. 

The resources we have are not great, new teams that cannot supply to those resources can only take out of it, so something will have to give, now I don't blame you guy's at all having sampled this wonderful game for demanding more, it is up to the teams and authorities over here going forward just how much they are prepared give, only time will tell.

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4 hours ago, Oxford said:

Don't worry the whole of TGG and the UK is based on similar lack of understanding because no one repeat no person understands how it really works. That way we can pass endless hours of forum typing to talk nonsense about how we disagree with something we never had a grasp of in the first place!

Even those that claim to understand only comprehend a small portion and where would we all end up if we thought it started to make sense?

Parkyville!

Blissful ignorance is what made Britain great!✉️

this is how it used to work clubs sent the rfl  what they are paying players on the cap then  pay players extra money  by employing wives as cleaners 🤣 and now it's brown envelopes in the back pockets💰📩

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

As far as this fan of the game is concerned I quote:

"But while this was happening, a quiet wave of discontent was building across the Atlantic. One can only speculate that it stems from a tinge of jealousy"

There is not one ounce of jealousy from me, but there is a ton of fear, not fear that Toronto will do well, but fear that it could do great harm to the sport in the UK, especially if more new teams from your continent are allowed in. 

The resources we have are not great, new teams that cannot supply to those resources can only take out of it, so something will have to give, now I don't blame you guy's at all having sampled this wonderful game for demanding more, it is up to the teams and authorities over here going forward just how much they are prepared give, only time will tell.

There is no reason why expansion (which to me mean means more teams, more players, more fans, more revenue) needs to hurt any team. One way to make sure of that is to charge higher and higher entry fees to each new team admitted, with those fees distributed to the existing teams. And it is reasonable to ask all teams (old and new) to contribute to growing the game at lower levels in ways that make sense.

I have posted before about our experience with expansion in professional ice hockey from the 1960s to today. This started with a doubling of teams from 6 to 12 in one year, which did dilute talent for a few years. If the growth is more gradual than that (and it should be!), the dilution of talent will be very manageable, and more teams, more fans, more revenue will lead to higher salaries, which will draw more players into the game (yes, eventually from Canada and the US as well).

I really believe that expansion done right does not take anything away from the heartland teams, but will grow the sport in a way that will help them. The Wolfpack may not yet have generated any Canadian players (and they won't in numbers for some time), but they have generated a lot of fans and made a real dent on a busy sports scene in a major city. That can be repeated, and that can lead to substantially more TV revenue within a short time. I know the top-down growth model is foreign to many in the UK, but it is the norm in North America and it does work.

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

As far as this fan of the game is concerned I quote:

"But while this was happening, a quiet wave of discontent was building across the Atlantic. One can only speculate that it stems from a tinge of jealousy"

There is not one ounce of jealousy from me, but there is a ton of fear, not fear that Toronto will do well, but fear that it could do great harm to the sport in the UK, especially if more new teams from your continent are allowed in. 

The resources we have are not great, new teams that cannot supply to those resources can only take out of it, so something will have to give, now I don't blame you guy's at all having sampled this wonderful game for demanding more, it is up to the teams and authorities over here going forward just how much they are prepared give, only time will tell.

I'm not North American, I'm aussies. I thought my avatar pic would have given that away.

As for your fear, the game didn't collapse when twp started so it shows that if new teams came in periodically, it will work.

There are more than enough players down here, for instance , my club has a surplus of juniors and 3 of them, Lamb, Yates and Randall, who we deemed not part of our future were playing in the Wakefield v London game a couple of weeks ago. 

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2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Agree with that Oxy, and this something I have always been critical about why we can't have a simplified version, so that everyone understands precisely what is and isn't  allowed on the cap and overseas player allowance, and when I say everyone that is exactly what I mean including all the fans of the game, but for it to work properly the player's saleries would have to be disclosed, but it can be done, remember a few years ago when some player's wives/partners would be employed by the club in the capacity  of a cleaner for 2 hours a week and be paid £40,000 a year for the privaledge.

Now call me sceptical but for years I have often wondered how some teams can congregate the best player's, being those player's who one would think can command the best salaries and can keep employing them season after season.

 

Now your getting into the relms of Greg Inglis' boat or the Rooster's salary sombrero 😁

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

As far as this fan of the game is concerned I quote:

"But while this was happening, a quiet wave of discontent was building across the Atlantic. One can only speculate that it stems from a tinge of jealousy"

There is not one ounce of jealousy from me, but there is a ton of fear, not fear that Toronto will do well, but fear that it could do great harm to the sport in the UK, especially if more new teams from your continent are allowed in. 

The resources we have are not great, new teams that cannot supply to those resources can only take out of it, so something will have to give, now I don't blame you guy's at all having sampled this wonderful game for demanding more, it is up to the teams and authorities over here going forward just how much they are prepared give, only time will tell.

Whilst it is true that I do not agree with your conclusion, I am a fan of TWP's involvement and future developments, I think the points you raise are valid here, and I get frustrated when it is just dismissed as jealousy to shut down the debate.

I am less bothered about the player development element, but more the financial side of making this work. As you say the UK has finite resources (cash) and needs to decide where it is going to invest its money. At the moment around 93% of SL funds (excluding that routed to lower divisions) remains in the UK, supporting teams operations in the UK, including the player development that goes alongside each club. It helps to keep the game going in this country.

We currently route £2m (for ease of discussion) out of the UK to France. Now there are people outraged that we are not routing a further £2m out to Canada. We need to be very very careful around what route we take here. Can the UK game afford to divert a further £2m out of the country? And then if Ottawa make it does that become £6m routed outside of the UK. And then Toulouse, is that another £2m?

If we do not have a plan on how to integrate the expansion teams into the league, we could sleepwalk into a place where we are spending £8-10m per year outside the UK. Over 5 years what return are we going to get for that £40-50m investment? What could we have done with it in the UK?

I am on board with expansion every day of the week, but I think we need to really look at who is going to pay for it, and it is why I am supportive of TWP being self-funding until there are income streams from that territory.

Let's not ignore the fact that we have routed £20m to France so far, and got a TV deal worth £70k per year directly from France. I understand the holistic arguments made, but they were also made for why we needed London.

TWP are great, a breath of fresh air, and I'm very excited to see how they go, but we can't just bumble along here, we need a plan on how to integrate and how to fund it. We don't have spare money knocking about.

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8 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Padge its North West Tonight, you will have all those clamouring for TWP info from out of the area searching the airwaves and not being able to locate it.👍

Ta, corrected.


Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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Just watched the recent Rugby AM bit with Symmo on it

Really impressed with the crowd and enthusiasm from the Canadian crowd... Had their own chants, lots of passion

I'm on the fence with TW but looking at it on this bit of telly it really looked brilliant 

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oops wrong thread

Edited by Padge

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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