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Roy Haggerty

Toronto Love (Merged threads)

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4 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Yep... Only Rugby AMs 2018 visit on YouTube currently not the most recent

Hope they upload soon. Thanks for trying!

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Has Sky released their ratings for last Saturday's game yet? Good game, perfect weather, great crowd, but the only important thing is: did anybody watch it?

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12 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

There is no reason why expansion  needs to hurt any team. If the growth is  gradual than that  the dilution of talent will be very manageable, and more teams, more fans, more revenue will lead to higher salaries, which will draw more players into the game (yes, eventually from Canada and the US as well).

I really believe that expansion done right does not take anything away from the heartland teams, but will grow the sport in a way that will help them. The Wolfpack may not yet have generated any Canadian players (and they won't in numbers for some time), but they have generated a lot of fans and made a real dent on a busy sports scene in a major city. That can be repeated, and that can lead to substantially more TV revenue within a short time. 

Well one has to "love" your perseverance, I really do.

BUT be fair - your entry to SL hurt London who did very well but went down for a guest club, and hurt investment in Leigh where the owner knew he was outspent by that guest club, so he didn't invest in his team as he was outspent. That aside I would seriously love you guys to have a go at SL and see how it pans out.

Had you been refused and folded I probably would not actually have taken that much pleasure in that - I do want to see how it goes given your at the door now. 

I'd suggest on your "more teams, more fans and more revenue" you forget  TWP didn't generate "more revenue" did they? They lost $$Millions due to the heavy travel costs and spending far too much money on players as will other NA clubs but I'd love for you guys to have a go anyway. 

Not sure about how higher salaries can be afforded and even if they were TWP did offer top college athletes the chance to get those high salaries but they could not adapt to the game. Paying players high salaries doesn't lead to them becoming great RL players does it? There has to be a big junior and amateur game to find elite athletes and I would actually love it if TWP would just set us something up next year? 

I love your optimism and perseverance and on the whole you've got to love fellow RL fans even if you don't agree with them at times! we are where we are so I'd love you to have a season in the sun here in England and Superleague as it will be fascinating to see how it goes...........

Good luck......

Edited by The Parksider
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2 hours ago, The Parksider said:

BUT be fair - your entry to SL hurt London who did very well but went down for a guest club,

London was going to be relegated regardless of who went up. 

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14 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Well one has to "love" your perseverance, I really do.

BUT be fair - your entry to SL hurt London who did very well but went down for a guest club, and hurt investment in Leigh where the owner knew he was outspent by that guest club, so he didn't invest in his team as he was outspent. That aside I would seriously love you guys to have a go at SL and see how it pans out.

Had you been refused and folded I probably would not actually have taken that much pleasure in that - I do want to see how it goes given your at the door now. 

I'd suggest on your "more teams, more fans and more revenue" you forget  TWP didn't generate "more revenue" did they? They lost $$Millions due to the heavy travel costs and spending far too much money on players as will other NA clubs but I'd love for you guys to have a go anyway. 

Not sure about how higher salaries can be afforded and even if they were TWP did offer top college athletes the chance to get those high salaries but they could not adapt to the game. Paying players high salaries doesn't lead to them becoming great RL players does it? There has to be a big junior and amateur game to find elite athletes and I would actually love it if TWP would just set us something up next year? 

I love your optimism and perseverance and on the whole you've got to love fellow RL fans even if you don't agree with them at times! we are where we are so I'd love you to have a season in the sun here in England and Superleague as it will be fascinating to see how it goes...........

Good luck......

I appreciate your "sincere" "good" "wishes".

London would have gone down regardless. Toronto helped the Championship by drawing in more fans (home and away), and by passing on central funding and prize money. They will help the other 11 Super League teams much more, by passing on the Sky money. And it looks like they may bring in a big name who will generate more interest when they come to visit as well.

I didn't say they had made a lot of money already; I agree they have been spending more than they have brought in so far. I believe that will change within a few years. I believe they and other new teams can bring more sponsorship and TV revenue, in years to come.

Let's see where things stand in a few years. I'm confident they will be a financial success in the medium to long term, and that they will help RL in the UK as well as in North America.

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On 11/10/2019 at 19:51, The Parksider said:

Well one has to "love" your perseverance, I really do.

BUT be fair - your entry to SL hurt London who did very well but went down for a guest club, and hurt investment in Leigh where the owner knew he was outspent by that guest club, so he didn't invest in his team as he was outspent. That aside I would seriously love you guys to have a go at SL and see how it pans out.

He may equally have not spent if another English owner appeared to be significantly out spending him. The location of the club has little bearing on that. So, even if one considers that a detriment to the game, the source of that detriment is higher-spending clubs, not foreign clubs. Not that I believe it is a detriment because more players are earning more money, because the additional money spent by the owner of Leigh without Toronto would not be greater than the amount spent by Toronto plus what Leigh DID spend.

Also,  without some (probably old and not linked to) proof,I don't actually believe you that the the owner of Leigh actually spent less than he would have specifically because of Toronto. 

Quote

Had you been refused and folded I probably would not actually have taken that much pleasure in that - I do want to see how it goes given your at the door now. 

I'd suggest on your "more teams, more fans and more revenue" you forget  TWP didn't generate "more revenue" did they?

I believe it's been demonstrated that the average attendance of Toronto games at the other clubs was higher than the average without Toronto.  Therefore,  it is more revenue to the other clubs. Generated by TWP.

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They lost $$Millions due to the heavy travel costs and spending far too much money on players as will other NA clubs but I'd love for you guys to have a go anyway. 

Revenue us not the same as profit. I think it's quite clear that TWP DOES bring in far more revenue than many other clubs. The fact that they spend more is their own decision as a business, and not unexpected as they are still a start-up new business spending what they need to to get established. 

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Not sure about how higher salaries can be afforded and even if they were TWP did offer top college athletes the chance to get those high salaries but they could not adapt to the game. Paying players high salaries doesn't lead to them becoming great RL players does it?

It does if it allows them to train and study rugby full time rather than have another job to worry about.  And it does if the same money paying them higher salaries,  also pays for better coaching,  training facilities,  nutrition, recovery, game analysis,  etc.

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There has to be a big junior and amateur game to find elite athletes and I would actually love it if TWP would just set us something up next year? 

I'm sure they'll take "what you would love" into consideration.... 🙄

Quote

I love your optimism and perseverance and on the whole you've got to love fellow RL fans even if you don't agree with them at times! we are where we are so I'd love you to have a season in the sun here in England and Superleague as it will be fascinating to see how it goes...........

Good luck......

 

Edited by TheReaper
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On 12/10/2019 at 10:18, John WP Fan said:

I appreciate your "sincere" "good" "wishes".

London would have gone down regardless. Toronto helped the Championship by drawing in more fans (home and away), and by passing on central funding and prize money. They will help the other 11 Super League teams much more, by passing on the Sky money. And it looks like they may bring in a big name who will generate more interest when they come to visit as well.

I didn't say they had made a lot of money already; I agree they have been spending more than they have brought in so far. I believe that will change within a few years. I believe they and other new teams can bring more sponsorship and TV revenue, in years to come.

Let's see where things stand in a few years. I'm confident they will be a financial success in the medium to long term, and that they will help RL in the UK as well as in North America.

Seems Sonny Bills agent is interested....who would have thunk it?

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On 11/10/2019 at 21:01, krakauer said:

Hey Bronco, do you have a link? Thanks!

On 11/10/2019 at 20:21, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Just watched the recent Rugby AM bit with Symmo on it.

 

Now been made available on their website;

https://rugbyam.co.uk/tv-features/alex-hits-toronto-for-the-mpg/

 

But not as good as Rugby Am's report on their visit to Toronto last year;

 

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What's not to love?

Equity, a Netflix series and $7m: Toronto Wolfpack’s unprecedented offer to lure SBW back to league

Phew with a capital F!


“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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1 hour ago, Oxford said:

What's not to love?

Equity, a Netflix series and $7m: Toronto Wolfpack’s unprecedented offer to lure SBW back to league

Phew with a capital F!

 

Giving ownership of the club to a veteran Rugby Union player is a good thing...????  

 

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8 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Giving ownership of the club to a veteran Rugby Union player is a good thing...???? 

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/equity-a-netflix-series-and-7m-toronto-wolfpacks-unprecedented-offer-to-lure-sbw-back-to-league/news-story/a4fdab6f98658a53c21ca88a7a36c1ff

 


“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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8 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Yes, I have read it.

So, giving (part) ownership of a Super League team to a veteran Rugby Union player is a good thing..?? Is this what serious, professional sports do?

 

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5 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Yes, I have read it.

So, giving (part) ownership of a Super League team to a veteran Rugby Union player is a good thing..?? Is this what serious, professional sports do?

 

I think you need to stop looking at the past for measuring the future.

"Lamport Stadium, in Toronto, Canada, has a strange history. For most of its history the stadium has been largely unused. It has now become the ‘rugby central’ for the Americas."

 

Edited by Oxford

“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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2 minutes ago, Oxford said:

I think you need to stop looking at the past for measuring the future.

I have no idea what that is meant to mean.

Is giving part ownership of a Super League team ( and a few million in cash ) to a veteran Rugby Union player a good thing? 

Would it be a good thing for other RL clubs like Leeds or Wigan or Warrington or St Helens or Hull FC or Salford to start giving shares in the club  (and millions) to 35 year old players? How does this benefit the success or longevity of the club?

What does it say about a club , and its direction and longevity, that it has to resort to such measures to get a few games out of a 35 year old ex RL player?

Will it be money well spent should Toronto go straight back down?

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1 minute ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Is giving part ownership of a Super League team ( and a few million in cash ) to a veteran Rugby Union player a good thing? Yes!

Would it be a good thing for other RL clubs like Leeds or Wigan or Warrington or St Helens or Hull FC or Salford to start giving shares in the club Might be!  (and millions) to 35 year old players? How does this benefit the success or longevity of the club? It establishes then as serious whether you like it or not!

What does it say about a club , and its direction and longevity, that it has to resort to such measures to get a few games out of a 35 year old ex RL player? It says they're in it for the long haul!

Will it be money well spent should Toronto go straight back down? No, of course not but nor would any money spent on the team that is relegated!

Press coverage that SL is starved of in the UK plus bums on seats. I doubt he'll play center though!


“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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2 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Press coverage that SL is starved of in the UK plus bums on seats. I doubt he'll play center though!

It will be a short term (and short) measure of both if anything at all. A terrible long term proposition for all sorts of reasons.

 

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That’s quite the development. They are clearly desperate to get him!

You have to question whether it’s worth Toronto betting the farm on a two-year deal for a player well past his prime.

This would undoubtedly create headlines and new viewers but Toronto were always going to do that simply by making it to Super League.

TBH I’d rather they spunked that sort of money on English RU players in their prime to make a real statement.

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Take a look at the marketing effort made by RU to promote the just completed world cup and then compare it to the marketing strategy employed by RL and now see the immediate impact the pursuit of SBW by the Wolfpack has made in the worldwide sports media.

I am convinced he will be announced this week as the latest WP signing..be interesting to see how RL uses this to sell the 2021 RLWC.

Big opportunity   hope they dont blow it!

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24 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

It will be a short term (and short) measure of both if anything at all. A terrible long term proposition for all sorts of reasons.

 

OK  what reasons??

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9 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

It will be a short term (and short) measure of both if anything at all. A terrible long term proposition for all sorts of reasons.

 

Sonny Bill Williams offered stake in Toronto Wolfpack as newly-promoted Super League club close in on sensational signing

The Telegraph

Super League side Toronto Wolfpack confirm they are in fresh talks with New Zealand star Sonny Bill Williams

The Daily Mail

Admitedly such TGG supporters as those two papers are it's probably not much in the way of evidence.

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“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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" Player having a stake in their club "  , never been done before ? , Oh I don't know , back in the past Tony Cottrell was the owner and chairman of Leigh RLFC and a player at the same time 

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59 minutes ago, Copa said:

I can see that if you're going to form a limited company, or the like, then this kind of arrangement and its attendant publicity wouldn't do harm to the venture. 

As a knock-on effect, I wonder if these recent moves give the RFL/Super League more confidence in absorbing Ottawa and New York. 

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