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Smudger06

Brian McDermott's Big City Team League

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Based On Brian's Vision only Leeds & Toronto are worthy. 

We can only presume he expects to furnish the Big City Team League with London, Toulouse, Sheffield & Newcastle for a total of 6. 

It seems he wants a Team in Barcelona, which could be achieved by relocating Catalans Dragons. 

Obviously NYC & Ottawa are on the radar, in the planning stages. 

I guess Salford & Leigh could merge to form a Manchester Side. 

= 10. Where's he gonna find at least 2 more big city teams? 

Where will Barcelona play? Where will Manchester play? Where will Sheffield Play? OLP not been adequate for such a grandiose League. Where will London Play? Current gaff not sufficient either! 

And how will he get rid of Wigan, Saints, Warrington, Huddersfield, Castleford, Wakefield etc? 

Where's he gonna find the fans for Sheffield, London etc? 

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55 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Based On Brian's Vision only Leeds & Toronto are worthy. 

We can only presume he expects to furnish the Big City Team League with London, Toulouse, Sheffield & Newcastle for a total of 6. 

It seems he wants a Team in Barcelona, which could be achieved by relocating Catalans Dragons. 

Obviously NYC & Ottawa are on the radar, in the planning stages. 

I guess Salford & Leigh could merge to form a Manchester Side. 

= 10. Where's he gonna find at least 2 more big city teams? 

Where will Barcelona play? Where will Manchester play? Where will Sheffield Play? OLP not been adequate for such a grandiose League. Where will London Play? Current gaff not sufficient either! 

And how will he get rid of Wigan, Saints, Warrington, Huddersfield, Castleford, Wakefield etc? 

Where's he gonna find the fans for Sheffield, London etc? 

The Flat Cap award for the dumbest post of the year. And there's been plenty of competition. 

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Just now, solly said:

He's suggesting that the code needs to think about its future and stop living in the past.

 

He’s suggesting Toronto can’t attract major investment because they play “small towns in the north of England”.

Sounded like he’s been talking to Jon Wilkin, who reckons himself to be something of an intellectual but is actually a half-wit who hasn’t thought it through.

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7 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

He’s suggesting Toronto can’t attract major investment because they play “small towns in the north of England”.

Which is the same as saying think about the future and stop living in the past. 

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Who needs a city when you can gave an entire County. 

Lancashire Warriors.  Cheshire Cats. 

Mountains: Pennine Giants.

And you can have great rivers, Mersey Saints. Trent Outlaws. Thames Valley Jets.

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1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

He’s suggesting Toronto can’t attract major investment because they play “small towns in the north of England”.

Sounded like he’s been talking to Jon Wilkin, who reckons himself to be something of an intellectual but is actually a half-wit who hasn’t thought it through.

Its a fact though isn't it. The top flight needs a critical mass of big clubs to sustain itself and in turn grow the game.

Kid across the country just aren't interested in Salford vs St Helens. Christ, kids in a proper RL city like Wakefield aren't interested either.

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Australian Rugby League worked this out over 30 years ago, although it has had plenty of road bumps along the way. It was realised that a competition based around suburban Sydney teams was not viable in the long term.

Gone are Newtown & North Sydney, mergers between Wests and Balmain, Saints and Illawarra. In have come Brisbane, Canberra, Newcastle, Cowboys (Townsville), Warriors (NZ) and Melbourne.

The NRL has plenty of problems and nothing is perfect, but it has gradually evolved from where it was 30 years ago to a point where it now has a TV deal worth $2Billion. I'd suggest that apart from all the juggling around the competition structure nothing has really changed in the English game in the last 30 years, same teams and I'd say no extra money in the game. I dont think Brian was suggesting that they drop all the current teams now and move everyone to a major city, but rather having a team like Toronto in the comp is a move in the right direction. The competition would also benefit from having Toulouse as well as London, instead of sitting back and hoping they one day earn promotion the League should be actively working out how to not only place them in Super League but also how to support them and make them a long term sustainable club.

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Making fun of expansionist daydreaming is obviously ok but utterly misquoting McDermott seems a bit out of order, as he said nowt of the sort. 

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2 minutes ago, Balmain1969 said:

Australian Rugby League worked this out over 30 years ago, although it has had plenty of road bumps along the way. It was realised that a competition based around suburban Sydney teams was not viable in the long term.

Gone are Newtown & North Sydney, mergers between Wests and Balmain, Saints and Illawarra. In have come Brisbane, Canberra, Newcastle, Cowboys (Townsville), Warriors (NZ) and Melbourne.

The NRL has plenty of problems and nothing is perfect, but it has gradually evolved from where it was 30 years ago to a point where it now has a TV deal worth $2Billion. I'd suggest that apart from all the juggling around the competition structure nothing has really changed in the English game in the last 30 years, same teams and I'd say no extra money in the game. I dont think Brian was suggesting that they drop all the current teams now and move everyone to a major city, but rather having a team like Toronto in the comp is a move in the right direction. The competition would also benefit from having Toulouse as well as London, instead of sitting back and hoping they one day earn promotion the League should be actively working out how to not only place them in Super League but also how to support them and make them a long term sustainable club.

Whilst I get what you are saying some of the points are a bit like comparing apples and oranges.

The big city teams that have came in into the NRL/ARL are all League heartlands anyway, bar Melbourne, and strong Rugby League areas in their own right with strong local competitions. There are no big city equivalents in the UK like that. Anyone interested in RL is already in the structure. There aren't big cities just waiting to be added.

Things like mergers were driven by the Super League war compromise with big money going to those teams. The mergers talked about in the UK often amount to merging homeless clubs with few fans and the merging of diddly squat to create diddly squat.

I do agree with what McDermott is saying and the gist of what you say though and the game certainly needs to be more proactive and properly support expansion.

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5 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Its a fact though isn't it. The top flight needs a critical mass of big clubs to sustain itself and in turn grow the game.

No it's an opinion not a fact. the game does need money, it's always needed to be marketed well if not better than other sports and it's a change of attitude that will make most of the difference not necessarily changes of location. But that scent you're experiencing right now is attracting UK media interest and that's the main target for TGG. And all because of the Pack on the Prowl!

Edited by Oxford
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I’d be interested to know how McDermott, a man from a “small northern town”, would have got to a stage in life where he’s coaching a major city based Rugby League team without the “small northern town” he calls his birthplace. 

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1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Making fun of expansionist daydreaming is obviously ok but utterly misquoting McDermott seems a bit out of order, as he said nowt of the sort. 

The thing is, I'm not quoting him. Just exploring the mechanics of the vision he shared post match on Sky Sports. 

He doesn't want to see small Northern Towns contesting Challenge Cup Finals and Grand Finals in 5 years time! Look at the list of Finalists over the last 10 years. 

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I don’t think that there is anything wrong with what Brian McDermott, the game clearly has to grow or die.

Whilst I am absolutely delighted that Toronto have been promoted , I would have been against any shenanigans being deployed to stop Featherstone being promoted to Super League.  That said I don’t think the presence of Rovers would have been beneficial to the commercial viability of the League - but sporting integrity should be paramount.

That said the game does need to grow to the level where competing at Super League level becomes an impossibility for Featherstone, because the clubs in Super League have simply grown too big for a small village side to compete with.

By this I mean we need all SL sides to grow into clubs where everyone is drawing a minimum of 10k, then we need to be raising the bar to 15k... obviously to do this we need thriving clubs in strong areas of population.

We need a strong core of Leeds, Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Catalans and the Hull sides, we need Salford to become a giant representing all of Manchester, in a perfect world Swinton as well.  We need Bradford back drawing the crowds they had in the late 90s, but we also need new blood, we need Toulouse, we need to make London work, we need Toronto nailing it in Super League with Ottawa to follow, we need Toulouse and we also need Newcastle to thrive and work their way organically up the divisions.  We also need Sheffield to breakthrough into the consciousness of their sporting public.

RL needs ambitious plans for growth and whilst no one can guarantee their success, it surely has to be better than the game dying a slow death by a thousand cuts.

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Just now, BladeHearts said:

I don’t think that there is anything wrong with what Brian McDermott, the game clearly has to grow or die.

Whilst I am absolutely delighted that Toronto have been promoted , I would have been against any shenanigans being deployed to stop Featherstone being promoted to Super League.  That said I don’t think the presence of Rovers would have been beneficial to the commercial viability of the League - but sporting integrity should be paramount.

That said the game does need to grow to the level where competing at Super League level becomes an impossibility for Featherstone, because the clubs in Super League have simply grown too big for a small village side to compete with.

By this I mean we need all SL sides to grow into clubs where everyone is drawing a minimum of 10k, then we need to be raising the bar to 15k... obviously to do this we need thriving clubs in strong areas of population.

We need a strong core of Leeds, Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Catalans and the Hull sides, we need Salford to become a giant representing all of Manchester, in a perfect world Swinton as well.  We need Bradford back drawing the crowds they had in the late 90s, but we also need new blood, we need Toulouse, we need to make London work, we need Toronto nailing it in Super League with Ottawa to follow, we need Toulouse and we also need Newcastle to thrive and work their way organically up the divisions.  We also need Sheffield to breakthrough into the consciousness of their sporting public.

RL needs ambitious plans for growth and whilst no one can guarantee their success, it surely has to be better than the game dying a slow death by a thousand cuts.

Wasn't all this said in 1995, with PSG steamrollered in to be closely followed by Barcelona?

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8 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

He’s suggesting Toronto can’t attract major investment because they play “small towns in the north of England”.

Sounded like he’s been talking to Jon Wilkin, who reckons himself to be something of an intellectual but is actually a half-wit who hasn’t thought it through.

Look at McDermott's comments in the context of the last couple of years. 

The 'small town' clubs have derided, undermined and stuck two fingers up at Toronto, through nothing more than fear. 

We've had "bondgate" at this years Challenge Cup, because heaven forbid a new team might be successful. We've had an SL chairmen-led shakedown of Toronto for their central funding, arguing over a sum of money that would be seen as paltry in most elite sports. We've had three years of clubs complaining about visas despite Toronto providing free legal assistance to any that request it. 

This is the small time mentality that McDermott and Toronto are challenging. They've had three years of the 'small town' clubs sticking two fingers to them - doesn't McDermott, a man who knows more than a bit about expansion clubs, get to stick two fingers back? 

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1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I’d be interested to know how McDermott, a man from a “small northern town”, would have got to a stage in life where he’s coaching a major city based Rugby League team without the “small northern town” he calls his birthplace. 

What is that supposed to mean?  What is the point you are making ... if you have one?  Must the coach of say Liverpool have to have come from Liverpool?  Of course not.  Where does the owner of Liverpool come from?

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3 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Wasn't all this said in 1995, with PSG steamrollered in to be closely followed by Barcelona?

The key this time is not trying to chuck clubs under the bus.  My preference certainly wouldn’t have been Fev in Super League, but neither should they have been denied promotion.

I am also in favour of new clubs working their way up the divisions as this is a good way of testing the mettle of their directors.  

Ultimately the game would be in a much better place had PSG been a success, but they really were a club built on sand, I wonder what position the game would now be in, if the Catalans Merger had been good to go from the start and also Toulouse had been in SL since 1995.

And just because we have failed before, doesn’t mean we should stop trying, we just need to learn lessons and do better the next time, Toronto are a great example of expansion done well. 

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5 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Look at McDermott's comments in the context of the last couple of years. 

The 'small town' clubs have derided, undermined and stuck two fingers up at Toronto, through nothing more than fear. 

We've had "bondgate" at this years Challenge Cup, because heaven forbid a new team might be successful. We've had an SL chairmen-led shakedown of Toronto for their central funding, arguing over a sum of money that would be seen as paltry in most elite sports. We've had three years of clubs complaining about visas despite Toronto providing free legal assistance to any that request it. 

This is the small time mentality that McDermott and Toronto are challenging. They've had three years of the 'small town' clubs sticking two fingers to them - doesn't McDermott, a man who knows more than a bit about expansion clubs, get to stick two fingers back? 

The irony is that if the expansion dream of Super League is successful the subsequent growth of the game and growth of television deals will ultimately leave the game of RL at Championship, L1 and community level in a far stronger place as a result.

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8 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Wasn't all this said in 1995, with PSG steamrollered in to be closely followed by Barcelona?

it is.. and the worst thing is that nothing, nothing has moved forward. 

PSG was a mistake, we can all look back and admit that, even at the time many said it.. but as long as we learn from it and move forward then that is fine. We did and did it differently with Catalans and that has been good for the game. But domestically is the game in any better state in 2019 than it was in 1995?? not sure.. not in the public consciousness anyway. 

The clubs in most places are not moving forward. We're getting excited this year because Warrington and Wolfie are having fun on Social Media and Anthony Gelling can be fun. This should all be the minimum that these clubs are doing not the stand out club and personality.. 

there is too much self interest from the clubs (which i do understand the reasoning for) but they don't see how growing others can help grow themselves.. which is what we need. IMHO that is the small time mentality that is prevalent and needs to change. 

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11 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

What is that supposed to mean?  What is the point you are making ... if you have one?  Must the coach of say Liverpool have to have come from Liverpool?  Of course not.  Where does the owner of Liverpool come from?

I would have thought that some so entrenched in Rugby League tradition and history, having come from a town and a wider region synonymous with Rugby League would have shown a tad more class and respect when talking about the game that has given him employment and opportunities for 20+ years.

While there are some merit to his comments that the game needs to grow as a whole, if that’s even what he meant, his belittling of the game’s heartlands and some of the clubs his team will have to face at the elite level is unwarranted and damaging to the game. 

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I have no problem with small northern towns playing RL. If it wasn't for small northern towns there would be no RL. 

However BM wants to grow and expand the RL market and he believes Toronto vs Barcelona would be more inviting to sponsors than Leigh vs Hunslet. 

Is a big city SL pie in the sky? Probably. 

But so is expecting money to come to a small northern town game. 

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5 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I would have thought that some so entrenched in Rugby League tradition and history, having come from a town and a wider region synonymous with Rugby League would have shown a tad more class and respect when talking about the game that has given him employment and opportunities for 20+ years.

While there are some merit to his comments that the game needs to grow as a whole, if that’s even what he meant, his belittling of the game’s heartlands and some of the clubs his team will have to face at the elite level is unwarranted and damaging to the game. 

Shoot the messenger...

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I'm used to the belittling of Fev and other smaller heartland clubs who survive on very little and are often criticised for it by certain "enlightened"  RL people........ I try to just ignore it and enjoy watching my team.

However the comments about Salford are simply ridiculous..........Last time i checked Salford is a City (where the BBC head office is).

Really don't see how them making a GF is bad for the sport

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