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Brian McDermott's Big City Team League


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22 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

No, but its pretty silly.

What has the fact that McDermott came from a small town (which isnt actually that small) got to do with what he went on to achieve?

What did he achieve at London where there was no money?  McDermott is a big cheque book coach. He had success at Leeds while the cash was flowing.  When the cash tap turned off he struggled.  I think he's vastly over rated.  His side struggled to overcome Fev for an hour,  until fatigue after a week consisting of basically a game followed by non stop travel caught up with them.

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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erm

Burnley

Bournemouth

Wolverhampton

Sheffield

Southampton

Norwich

Watford

Do these count as big cities?  They are all in the Premiership, the richest comp in football.  As were Wigan, Stoke, Hull, Huddersfield and Middlesborough until relatively recently

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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20 minutes ago, Trojan said:

erm

Burnley

Bournemouth

Wolverhampton

Sheffield

Southampton

Norwich

Watford

Do these count as big cities?  They are all in the Premiership, the richest comp in football.  As were Wigan, Stoke, Hull, Huddersfield and Middlesborough until relatively recently

5th largest city in England by population

3rd largest "city district" in England by population (I assume thats like metropolitan district.. so mayor "city region" or something).. 

in short yes.. its a big city!

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45 minutes ago, Trojan said:

erm

Burnley

Bournemouth

Wolverhampton

Sheffield

Southampton

Norwich

Watford

Do these count as big cities?  They are all in the Premiership, the richest comp in football.  As were Wigan, Stoke, Hull, Huddersfield and Middlesborough until relatively recently

I think saying exclusively big cities/big teams is unreasonable. But it can't be too heavily weighted the other way. 

The premier League wouldn't be what it is if it was all Bournemouth/Burnley/Middlesbrough with no Man United, Liverpool, Arsenal.

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36 minutes ago, RP London said:

5th largest city in England by population

3rd largest "city district" in England by population (I assume thats like metropolitan district.. so mayor "city region" or something).. 

in short yes.. its a big city!

With a "big city" Rugby League team that has won the Challenge Cup and played in the Super League and World Club Championship...and who get maybe a 1000 people willing to pay to watch.

 

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3 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

All of this "they're not interested" rhetoric  talks as if the people of Liverpool (or any city you care to think of) are some homogeneous mass of people who all think, like and dislike the same. They aren't.

Some will not be interested, some will be so averse to rugby that no type of event will appeal to them. But some won't think that way - some could be tempted by something new and those are the people you find and appeal to. 

Marketing isn't just about shouting about something (that's advertising) - it's about adapting what you have to the market you want to reach. I just can't believe that a club couldn't do that to appeal to some of the hundreds of thousands of people who live in the nearest big city. 

It also overlooks the fact that (as Toronto has demonstrated very clearly) RL can do well just by capturing a small share of the sports market in a big city and if it then goes on to expand that share do better still on that basis.

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2 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

With a "big city" Rugby League team that has won the Challenge Cup and played in the Super League and World Club Championship...and who get maybe a 1000 people willing to pay to watch.

 

yes we could do better (as i argue on many many other threads with the Eagles) think you may be overestimating the 1000 as well at the moment!..

The question was about the "cities" in the Premier league football and if they were "big cities".. yes Sheffield is and a recognisable "name" outside of the UK... i agree if you are looking for an argument against what Brian McDermott was saying and looking at Bournemouth and Brighton etc saying they arent "big cities" but Sheffield is so isnt a great one to use in the argument

FWIW i dont think it is a very good argument anyway as the Premier League is based around some very big teams and the rest are ad ons.. if as a tv company you are buying the rights to italian football are you buying Milan, Inter, Juve, Roma, Napoli, Lazio, Torino, Fiorentina or for Brescia, Cagliari, Udinese, Lecce, SPAL, Sassuolo, Atalanta etc.. equally football is very different to any other sport in this case, we are all competing for the crumbs off football's table.

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1 hour ago, Trojan said:

erm

Burnley

Bournemouth

Wolverhampton

Sheffield

Southampton

Norwich

Watford

Do these count as big cities?  They are all in the Premiership, the richest comp in football.  As were Wigan, Stoke, Hull, Huddersfield and Middlesborough until relatively recently

The second flight in the UK is one of the biggest leagues in Europe. It dwarfs the top flights in Norway or Austria and comparable to the French league. 

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Been lurking this thread a while now, one thing I can't get my head around is why is there so much hate for a man who holds such a positive out look on growth potential for the sport

Also Leeds is a big city (with some international name recognition) for all those complaining about his previous post there.

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25 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

And yet the all time premeir league table is teams from Manchester, London, london, liverpool, london. Liverpool. Manchester, newcastle, Birmingham, london, Manchester, Southampton, leeds, middlesborough, Leicester  Sunderland, london, manchester, birmingham, stoke london, sheffield,.london, Norwich

Anyone pretending the premeir league isnt based around big clubs in big conurbations just isnt being truthful

Also some of those cities you mention are like 20-30times bigger than the likes of fev and more importantly so are the clubs. 

The Premier League isn't " based" around anything geographical in an artificial sense. It all depends on who gets promotion and who goes down. The big teams in big cities obviously are more successful as they generate most cash to spend on top players.

Man U have previously gone down and hopefully Ole will repeat the feat, with no one at EPL HQ being worried or trying to get rid of P +R.

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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

And yet the all time premeir league table is teams from Manchester, London, london, liverpool, london. Liverpool. Manchester, newcastle, Birmingham, london, Manchester, Southampton, leeds, middlesborough, Leicester  Sunderland, london, manchester, birmingham, stoke london, sheffield,.london, Norwich

Anyone pretending the premeir league isnt based around big clubs in big conurbations just isnt being truthful

Also some of those cities you mention are like 20-30times bigger than the likes of fev and more importantly so are the clubs. 

What is the equivalence between the Premier League and Rugby League? or the Premier League and any other sport/league?

Are you saying that the Premier League came about because of a conscious, planned decision to build a sport around "big clubs in big conurbations"?  

If you are defining things by "conurbations" then Featherstone is part of the West Yorkshire built up area, this places it above Leicester, Liverpool, Middlesbrorough, Newcastle, Southampton, Stoke, Sheffield and Norwich from your list.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom

I assume if Featherstone Flyers football team could rise through the ranks and hit the Premier League you would then class them as a "big club in a big conurbation"? Why is it different for RL?

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8 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

The Premier League isn't " based" around anything geographical in an artificial sense. It all depends on who gets promotion and who goes down. The big teams in big cities obviously are more successful as they generate most cash to spend on top players.

Man U have previously gone down and hopefully Ole will repeat the feat, with no one at EPL HQ being worried or trying to get rid of P +R.

Indeed. 

The difference is between the Premier Leagues using P&R to select 20 places from 40 suitable candidates and Super League choosing the best 12 from about six suitable candidates. 

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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42 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

And yet the all time premeir league table is teams from Manchester, London, london, liverpool, london. Liverpool. Manchester, newcastle, Birmingham, london, Manchester, Southampton, leeds, middlesborough, Leicester  Sunderland, london, manchester, birmingham, stoke london, sheffield,.london, Norwich

Anyone pretending the premeir league isnt based around big clubs in big conurbations just isnt being truthful

Also some of those cities you mention are like 20-30times bigger than the likes of fev and more importantly so are the clubs. 

The Premier League is based around teams who kick the ball between the goalposts. 

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I will never ever call Brian McDermott when his coaching record is there to see 4 GF wins 2CC wins 1 league leadership . 1 WCC noone can argue with that. What I think he is saying is ' we must have aspirations to become a Global game with large international recognized cities competing against each other ' that's fine ,but other sports much bigger than TGG have had that aspiration for year and not get there ,,, Yet . NFL even association Football only has champions league and the other one for part of the season . I think Macs vision is a long way down the road yet 

 Soon we will be dancing the fandango
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

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On 07/10/2019 at 08:26, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I’d be interested to know how McDermott, a man from a “small northern town”, would have got to a stage in life where he’s coaching a major city based Rugby League team without the “small northern town” he calls his birthplace. 

Times change and we need to change

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1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

The Premier League isn't " based" around anything geographical in an artificial sense. It all depends on who gets promotion and who goes down. The big teams in big cities obviously are more successful as they generate most cash to spend on top players.

Man U have previously gone down and hopefully Ole will repeat the feat, with no one at EPL HQ being worried or trying to get rid of P +R.

They would be seriously worried but of course they wouldn’t stop the relegation (unlike the Argentine FA when River Plate went down). 

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On ‎07‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 11:14, League of XIII said:

Brian would approve of the big city expansion league I suggested in the topic below ?

 

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/343985-how-about-a-nh-expansion-league-separate-to-super-league/

Interesting but if you were really thinking/dreaming big time you'd want Super League Europe to establish a franchised ‘American Rugby League’ with the aid of private equity/Argyle types/TV for Toronto, New York, Ottawa et al and incentivise some Major League Rugby clubs to switch codes. You could then have an 'Atlantic League' played during the season, Champions League style. TV gold! 

No point in New York v Coventry etc.  

Vanishly unlikely the above will happen, of course, but if this trans-Atlantic lark is going to work then it needs to be of mutual benefit. After all, where are they going to get the players?!

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3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Interesting but if you were really thinking/dreaming big time you'd want Super League Europe to establish a franchised ‘American Rugby League’ with the aid of private equity/Argyle types/TV for Toronto, New York, Ottawa et al and incentivise some Major League Rugby clubs to switch codes. You could then have an 'Atlantic League' played during the season, Champions League style. TV gold! 

No point in New York v Coventry etc.  

Vanishly unlikely the above will happen, of course, but if this trans-Atlantic lark is going to work then it needs to be of mutual benefit. After all, where are they going to get the players?!

You wouldn't waste time with any clubs in Minor League Rugby (to call that circuit what it really is).  They're all too small time to be included.

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30 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Interesting but if you were really thinking/dreaming big time you'd want Super League Europe to establish a franchised ‘American Rugby League’ with the aid of private equity/Argyle types/TV for Toronto, New York, Ottawa et al and incentivise some Major League Rugby clubs to switch codes. You could then have an 'Atlantic League' played during the season, Champions League style. TV gold! 

No point in New York v Coventry etc.  

Vanishly unlikely the above will happen, of course, but if this trans-Atlantic lark is going to work then it needs to be of mutual benefit. After all, where are they going to get the players?!

It's a good idea and I like it

I wouldnt say it won't happen, but I'd say it won't happen in the next 20 years, not at all until we garner more interest in the sport internationally

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1 minute ago, TboneFromTO said:

It's a good idea and I like it

I wouldnt say it won't happen, but I'd say it won't happen in the next 20 years, not at all until we garner more interest in the sport internationally

Indeed.

New leagues have many moving parts and hope to conjure up a major competition from nothing. There is very little past record of such a thing working. The nearest thing there is where a sport is already big and a league in that sport was introduced. That is not comparable.

There is far more history of new clubs successfullly joining existing leagues.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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32 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The premier leagues success is absolutely based around big clubs in big cities. They have achieved that through largely unlimited spending. It's a natural gravitation 

Which they can get away with as if the ten biggest teams left, or even the twenty biggest, they would still be left with teams anough to create one of the biggest leagues in Europe.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Of course it is that's why the Scottish premier league has seen the exponential growth the premier league has. Its just kicking a ball between goal posts, that's why the SPL value stayed the same when a team from Dingwall replaced team Glasgow

 

Oh...

I think it is great that he remembers the amateur game and does not bother with the professional game. Good for him.

Obviously, his argument does not apply to the professional game, and I think you should apologise for suggesting he would write something that stupid.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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1 hour ago, Bob8 said:

Indeed.

New leagues have many moving parts and hope to conjure up a major competition from nothing. There is very little past record of such a thing working. The nearest thing there is where a sport is already big and a league in that sport was introduced. That is not comparable.

There is far more history of new clubs successfullly joining existing leagues.

On the contrary I can name four examples of such a thing working.  The AFL, ABA and WHL all successfully pressured bigger, established competitors into mergers and MLS became a successful major pro league which just admitted a new franchise in St Louis for a fee of 200 million US$.  A new transatlantic RL equivalent of Super Rugby and Pro 14 based on the established model and practices of major North American pro leagues could certainly work, but its franchises would have to be located in well known globally recognized cities in enough countries to enable it to bring in serious money from TV rights despite the fact that as a startup operation it can't expect any single broadcaster to pay more than a fraction of what they pay for their current sports properties.

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Of course it is that's why the Scottish premier league has seen the exponential growth the premier league has. Its just kicking a ball between goal posts, that's why the SPL value stayed the same when a team from Dingwall replaced team Glasgow

 

Oh...

Glasgow AND Edinburgh are bigger cities than many a Premier League club, the size of the league has nothing to do with the cities/towns in which its participants play in. Newcastle getting relegated and say Huddersfield getting promoted doesn’t dramatically reduce TV deals, sponsorship etc. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

On the contrary I can name four examples of such a thing working.  The AFL, ABA and WHL all successfully pressured bigger, established competitors into mergers and MLS became a successful major pro league which just admitted a new franchise in St Louis for a fee of 200 million US$.  A new transatlantic RL equivalent of Super Rugby and Pro 14 based on the established model and practices of major North American pro leagues could certainly work, but its franchises would have to be located in well known globally recognized cities in enough countries to enable it to bring in serious money from TV rights despite the fact that as a startup operation it can't expect any single broadcaster to pay more than a fraction of what they pay for their current sports properties.

You’re examples of introducing complete sports leagues for sports that were not already big in that area is basketball to North America and ice hockey to Canada? And the original birth of the oldest codified football in existence? Soccer to the USA was exactly the example of a league already having a basis  

What am I meant to write to that and not be insulting? Help me here!

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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