Brian McDermott's Big City Team League

[The Parksider]

22 hours ago, RobertAM said:

Reality Rugby League - give it a decade and there'll be no L1 clubs, a handful in Championship and 8 or 10 SL sides scrapping over the diminishing pot that SKY hands out. And this guy cheering about it. Enjoy.

Grow up and stop fishing for “like this” emojies, they don't make you right.

The SKY TV deal provided over £20 million to clubs outside Superleague they will no longer get  2022 onwards. SL clubs will take all the money from the reduced SKY deal as they will need every penny to put on a show for TV. What are you talking about “give it a decade”. It coming around NOW in 2022, don’t you read anything up or are you too busy making it all up?

Did you miss Superleague preparing for this early this year when they offered to take 20 clubs under their juridstiction in two leagues of 10. Yes your accidentally right there will be likely just 10 fully pro-Superleague Clubs as a result of the reduced SKY deal, ten in the championship to provide P & R  and the rest left to do what they want.

There’s no chance Toronto Wolfpack will be given a place in that set up by clubs who just don’t want them now. Don’t you get that? Don’t you wonder why New York never started and Ottawa pulled back? If McManus and Lenegan see TWP as phoney doesn't it occur  to you they see these other clubs - who haven't got a Billionaire to waste £10M phonier than phoney?

16 hours ago, RP London said:

all teams at the top level should have academies, and for new clubs they should be asked to provide a full plan of how one will be introduced (to think you can have one up and running, producing players or top quality on inception of the club is utter madness)

What?? It's "utter madness" to just carry on predicting more and more phoney clubs. I think you once proudly declared you had me on ignore - which is a way to keep your fantasies alive - but I'll tell others this if you have your fingers in your ears that of course these clubs can't have academies on inception but Brian McDermott said TWP wouldn't have an academy for many years and maybe not in his lifetime- you can only have an academy if you have a large schools and junior game and once again for what - the 1,000th time there isn't a junior RL game in Canada or the USA, it's all Rugby Union and Argyle accepts that. 

13 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

But this is the entire problem, is it not? The game cannot keep relying on the next generation of Fultons, Beaumonts or Davys to keep clubs afloat. 

RL doesn't attract investment because it offers pitifully low returns. As long as the game keeps offering those poor returns, it is going to stand still. If RL is going to progress, it needs to make it easier for people, sponsors and broadcasters to buy it - and that means spreading beyond the M62. 

No it's not the problem. The game does rely on the richer members of the Rugby league family to invest their excess money made in business into their favoured clubs. That's how it works in RL...and Union....and Soccer....at local levels. 

These people aren't looking for "returns" at all. The man who doesn't care about "returns" has just wasted £10,000,000 on TWP because he likes RL, where on earth are the returns beyond the M62 there?? Sure the big soccer clubs with worldwide interest can get massive returns but this sin't how rugby league works, nor rugby union either.

Next year Argylle has probably even higher overheads and there's no TV deals now or even on the horizon so he'll hardly be getting "returns". You seem to be ignoring one heck of a lot of reality, if your going to dream please do so but don't try to tell me that anyone can make money out of Rugby clubs.................   And this is why North Americans aren't going to waste £Millions on a foreign game are they. 

The scale of these pipe dreams is immense, but they are all traceable to one dreamer - Eric Perez..........  

He ain't half suckered in you guys.......

[RobertAM]

and when SKY pulls the rug out completely from under and the only thing left are a handful of clubs you'll still be cheering one would suppose....Take a look at OSEG and MLSE groups portfolios...either of them could buy your richest SL club with their petty cash..and maybe they will when SKY puts the squeeze on. And that is just Canada..if the Yanks want to take a punt on growing RL and their TV broadcasters come onboard your childish rantings will seem like comedy gold!

[Smudger06]

Maccas Big City Team League will have a draft.

5 Rounds, 12 picks per round for a total of 60 players selected.

There will be a 100 Player draft pool formed each year, this pool is where the 60 selections (draftees) will come from.

Where will 100 Players be found to establish a draft pool each year?

They will be invited to enter the draft pool.

Through a Scouting Combine which monitors and invites players from the 15 Teams of the RFL Reserve Grade!!!

The draft will have a 3 fold purpose; to further competitive balance alongside the salary cap. To create off season interest & to relieve Big City Teams of some of the burdens of maintaining individual / seperate Scouting-academy-Reserves-1st team squad systems. 

[whatmichaelsays]

8 hours ago, The Parksider said:

No it's not the problem. The game does rely on the richer members of the Rugby league family to invest their excess money made in business into their favoured clubs. That's how it works in RL...and Union....and Soccer....at local levels. 

These people aren't looking for "returns" at all. The man who doesn't care about "returns" has just wasted £10,000,000 on TWP because he likes RL, where on earth are the returns beyond the M62 there?? Sure the big soccer clubs with worldwide interest can get massive returns but this sin't how rugby league works, nor rugby union either.

Next year Argylle has probably even higher overheads and there's no TV deals now or even on the horizon so he'll hardly be getting "returns". You seem to be ignoring one heck of a lot of reality, if your going to dream please do so but don't try to tell me that anyone can make money out of Rugby clubs.................   And this is why North Americans aren't going to waste £Millions on a foreign game are they. 

Which is fine if what you want is to maintain the status quo, but I think it's fair that people want to challenge that and suggest that we can do better. What you call "dreaming", I call ambition.

There are poor or no returns in RL because the game is structured that way. It's a sport that is structured to minimise cost and risk to a handful of individuals, a sport that is set up to exploit the playing talent as much as possible, a sport that relies too heavily on matchday income, that relies too heavily on a diminishing and not particuarly affluent audience, a sport that doesn't generate enough from commercial income or broadcasting.

If you want to persist that RL is a game that does and should continue to rely on the benevolance of local businessmen, that's fine. The game will continue on its current trajectory of lower participation, declining crowds, less relevancy and less financial stability, but you'll be getting what you seem to want. 

But it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. RL relies on these people because it doesn't appeal to outsiders who could, in the right circumstances, see an investment in RL as worthwhile. It's also a status quo that comes with inherent risk. When the likes of Davy, Fulton, Beaumont and Hudgell are no longer willing or able to keep underwriting the losses, where is the next investor coming from to take over the reigns? The situation at Bradford should act as a warning that relying on the next "local businessman looking for a hobby" is pretty damn risky - there are only so many of them, and not all of them are desirable. 

I will argue with anyone that expansion, particuarly in North America, comes with risks. But I will also argue that the risks of not looking to change, progress and expand are far, far greater. 

[Big Picture]

5 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Which is fine if what you want is to maintain the status quo, but I think it's fair that people want to challenge that and suggest that we can do better. What you call "dreaming", I call ambition.

There are poor or no returns in RL because the game is structured that way. It's a sport that is structured to minimise cost and risk to a handful of individuals, a sport that is set up to exploit the playing talent as much as possible, a sport that relies too heavily on matchday income, that relies too heavily on a diminishing and not particuarly affluent audience, a sport that doesn't generate enough from commercial income or broadcasting.

If you want to persist that RL is a game that does and should continue to rely on the benevolance of local businessmen, that's fine. The game will continue on its current trajectory of lower participation, declining crowds, less relevancy and less financial stability, but you'll be getting what you seem to want. 

But it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. RL relies on these people because it doesn't appeal to outsiders who could, in the right circumstances, see an investment in RL as worthwhile. It's also a status quo that comes with inherent risk. When the likes of Davy, Fulton, Beaumont and Hudgell are no longer willing or able to keep underwriting the losses, where is the next investor coming from to take over the reigns? The situation at Bradford should act as a warning that relying on the next "local businessman looking for a hobby" is pretty damn risky - there are only so many of them, and not all of them are desirable. 

I will argue with anyone that expansion, particuarly in North America, comes with risks. But I will also argue that the risks of not looking to change, progress and expand are far, far greater. 

Unless I'm mistaken, Parksider has stated previously that managed decline is the only future he can foresee for RL in the UK, which is an admission that the maintaining the status quo isn't possible.  That being the case a new, franchised league of teams in big globally recognized cities is the only way for the game to go forward.

[GUBRATS]

I'd say this thread is now ' done ' 

Till the next one

[TIWIT]

More fuel for the fire:

According to a paper that cannot be mentioned here, after the MPG game a Fev fan - presumeably very drunk - challenged Brian McDermott to a fight. Said fan didn't like losing to a team coached by a man who flat out stated Featherstone didn't belong in Super League.

[GUBRATS]

9 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

More fuel for the fire:

According to a paper that cannot be mentioned here, after the MPG game a Fev fan - presumeably very drunk - challenged Brian McDermott to a fight. Said fan didn't like losing to a team coached by a man who flat out stated Featherstone didn't belong in Super League.

That'll be that Robin Evans who posts on here , always overdoing the ' pop '

[Lowdesert]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I'd say this thread is now ' done ' 

Till the next one

All Parkys clippings are in a line, with added Lenegan detail, ready and waiting for tomorrow.  Not in the same sequence though.

[solly]

23 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

It isn't that it's flawed , it's just that it is and always will be subjective , both in the criteria selected and the application of them 

Except that some subjective opinions can lead to more change and progress than other people's subjective opinions.

This is why it is necessary to engage with those who have the knowledge, experience, and dare I say vision, to take the ball of information they get from research and marketing etc and run in the right direction.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, solly said:

Except that some subjective opinions can lead to more change and progress than other people's subjective opinions.

This is why it is necessary to engage with those who have the knowledge, experience, and dare I say vision, to take the ball of information they get from research and marketing etc and run in the right direction.

Any post using the word ' engage ' I am considering putting on ignore 

So do you mean ' pay ' them to work for you ? 

[solly]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Any post using the word ' engage ' I am considering putting on ignore 

So do you mean ' pay ' them to work for you ? 

I mean become involved with people who know or are prepared to know about these things. 

Whether that is by reading their writings, hiring or employing them, contacting them via social media, whatever. 

You know, engaging with them... 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, solly said:

I mean become involved with people who know or are prepared to know about these things. 

Whether that is by reading their writings, hiring or employing them, contacting them via social media, whatever. 

You know, engaging with them... 

So these people work for nothing ? , So they're amateurs ?

[solly]

13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So these people work for nothing ? , So they're amateurs ?

Yeah they're amateurs, especially the ones that you hire.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, solly said:

Yeah they're amateurs, especially the ones that you hire.

So you mean hiring in a company ? , If that's what you mean say so 

[The Parksider]

17 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Parksider has stated previously that managed decline is the only future he can foresee for RL in the UK

You make a heck of a lot of stuff up but don't make it up about me. It's business as usual, the game goes forward from 1896 onwards to another SKY deal in 2022 when TWP probably will be ejected at that point when they will still have developed no players, still have no NATV deal and will have racked up a £20M deficit..And you want a league full of clubs like this!!!

22 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

When the likes of Davy, Fulton, Beaumont and Hudgell are no longer willing or able to keep underwriting the losses, where is the next investor coming from to take over the reigns? I will argue with anyone that expansion, particuarly in North America, comes with risks. 

Where they have come from since 1896, what a ridiculous argument, as is your North American claptrap. McDermott has had to come out and come clean on behalf of TWP and admit they aren't going to be developing players or getting TV deals, i.e. that failed. It's clear your only fishing for "like this" emojies. You got ten, now convince 100,000 SL fans you have a point.

On 18/10/2019 at 04:22, RobertAM said:

and when SKY pulls the rug out completely from under ....Take a look at OSEG and MLSE groups portfolios...either of them could buy your richest SL club with their petty cash.

SKY have a deal ready for Superleague. This time they don't want to fund the Championship so for Superleague it will be business as usual, however for TWP they won't justify a place as the North American dream is dead. Perez said it could not be done with TWP alone, and given the massive debt run up trying, nobody is going to follow.

13 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

All Parkys clippings are in a line, with added Lenegan detail, ready and waiting for tomorrow.  Not in the same sequence though.

And all the lame excuses will be coming out today, I've seen plenty of nonsense  from you this last three years but at least you stopped trying to justify TWP fairly early and went over to trolling for "like this" emojies. How old are you BTW?

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

You make a heck of a lot of stuff up but don't make it up about me. It's business as usual, the game goes forward from 1896 onwards to another SKY deal in 2022 when TWP probably will be ejected at that point when they will still have developed no players, still have no NATV deal and will have racked up a £20M deficit..And you want a league full of clubs like this!!!

Where they have come from since 1896, what a ridiculous argument, as is your North American claptrap. McDermott has had to come out and come clean on behalf of TWP and admit they aren't going to be developing players or getting TV deals, i.e. that failed. It's clear your only fishing for "like this" emojies. You got ten, now convince 100,000 SL fans you have a point.

SKY have a deal ready for Superleague. This time they don't want to fund the Championship so for Superleague it will be business as usual, however for TWP they won't justify a place as the North American dream is dead. Perez said it could not be done with TWP alone, and given the massive debt run up trying, nobody is going to follow.

And all the lame excuses will be coming out today, I've seen plenty of nonsense  from you this last three years but at least you stopped trying to justify TWP fairly early and went over to trolling for "like this" emojies. How old are you BTW?

Theres more than enough on here to engage in debate with you Parky, but cant stand the groundhog day syndrome.  If you dont like it, then dont give it out. 

At times its been a laugh reading your stuff, so I appreciate your efforts.

Leeds Carniegie 27 Oct.

 

[RobertAM]

3 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Theres more than enough on here to engage in debate with you Parky, but cant stand the groundhog day syndrome.  If you dont like it, then dont give it out. 

At times its been a laugh reading your stuff, so I appreciate your efforts.

Leeds Carniegie 27 Oct.

 

Like I said..his stuff is comedy gold..only a comedian could champion the cause of shrinking the footprint of RL..he should do a TV special when there's 4 or 5 NA and 3 or 4 European teams in the game

[Michael1812]

On 16/10/2019 at 16:26, Eddie said:

Did they? Well that is shameless but I suppose representative of the American franchise system, which really has no relevance to RL. NHL may have been a poor example, as someone pointed out CFL May have been better. 

Or the Winnipeg jets moving to Phoenix or blocking an NHL team moving to Hamilton. 

[Michael1812]

On 16/10/2019 at 21:11, Eddie said:

No I’m not. I’m saying it’s in relatively small towns / markets by North American standards (like RL is by English standards) and therefore according to your logic should be looking to expand into bigger cities. However I am saying that your logic is flawed and RL trying to expand to loads of big cities in non RL areas won’t work (as has been proven umpteen times in fact), just like it didn’t work for CFL. Capisce?

CFL is in the largest markets in Canada. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Michael1812 said:

 

[whatmichaelsays]

8 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Where they have come from since 1896, what a ridiculous argument, as is your North American claptrap. McDermott has had to come out and come clean on behalf of TWP and admit they aren't going to be developing players or getting TV deals, i.e. that failed. It's clear your only fishing for "like this" emojies. You got ten, now convince 100,000 SL fans you have a point.

Are you suggesting that there is an endless stream of bored businessmen just waiting for an RL club to become available? And even if there is, any Bulls fan will tell you that any such queue includes your Omar Khans, Greens and Chalmers' of this world, not to mention the various idiots and shysters who have taken punts on various RL clubs. The model just isn't sustainable.

The game needs to move to a point where every club can be and is self sufficient. I don't see that as a particularly controversial view.

I don't know why your brought player development into this - I never raised it. The first Super League standard Canadians probably haven't even been born yet. At best, they're still in pampers. It takes time - generations in fact - to develop top level RL players. 

And if you think that Internet likes get me up in the morning, I'm afraid to say you're mistaken. Like you're mistaken that these two online fan polls that you keep referring to are in any way credible or relevant. 

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, Michael1812 said:

CFL is in the largest markets in Canada. 

Yet in Toronto the Argonauts struggle to be relevant because they play in a league with teams in smaller cities like Hamilton and Regina which Torontonians think they've outgrown since the Blue Jays and Raptors (and Toronto FC to a lesser extent since soccer's a lower-profile sport here than baseball or basketball) came to town.  That same thing might have begun to happen to the CFL franchises in Vancouver and Montréal now too.

[TIWIT]

2 hours ago, Michael1812 said:

CFL is in the largest markets in Canada. 

And that's where they're struggling the most.

[The Parksider]

19 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

 you Parky..... If you.........your stuff........your efforts..........

Erm the debate is TWP's admission via their coach they have not been able to deliver any players or TV deals and are unlikely to do that. These were the success criteria their founder set the club, plus in failing to do that they ran up a £10,000,000 debt and continue to run that higher as they enter Superleague. Oddly enough their coach excuses this total failure of their  business plan on the other clubs for not being "big city's".

Just admit TWP far from being a massive success are a massive failure, and we can call it a day?? Having a go at me is the usual cheap trick tried literally more than a thousand times. Trying to hound someone out of a debate isn't grown up is it? 

12 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

1. Are you suggesting that there is an endless stream of businessmen waiting for an RL club to become available? 

2. You're mistaken that these two online fan polls that you keep referring to are in any way credible or relevant. 

3. The game needs to move to a point where every club can be and is self sufficient. I don't see that as a particularly controversial view.

1. 123 years on and the model still works, only in the last 23 years the success has risen a level with the game stepping up from semi-pro to Professional. We have done pretty good and continue onwards with a new SKY deal waiting.

2. You have your one opinion, thousands of fans have theirs - as a democrat I'll accept the majority vote. TWP are now pointless by their own admission no players, no TV deals and one of the biggest trading debts ever in the history of the game.

3. I don't see it at all because you woffle on from post to post claiming your a marketing genius, but never actually set out your cunning plan. Please let myself and my business advisor Mr. Gubrats know what it is. We may start our own club in Timbuktu with this plan.