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Smudger06

Brian McDermott's Big City Team League

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7 hours ago, solly said:

Only if it applies to you good sir. Otherwise, no, I'm speaking generally.

I agree it would probably be better for the game , but I don't understand what influence I would have on it , I would just still go watching Leigh 

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9 hours ago, solly said:

Only if it applies to you good sir. Otherwise, no, I'm speaking generally.

So generally being ? , The fans , owners of existing clubs ? , To the detriment of their existing clubs ? 

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11 hours ago, Eddie said:

Wigan aren’t a Manchester club, Saints aren’t a Liverpool club, Cheshire is a county not a city, Wakefield isn’t very big and Castleford certainly isn't. Sheffield, Huddersfield and Tolouse are obviously bigger but none of them will sustain decent SL crowds any time soon and neither will London. Other than that though, excellent. 

It's a parochial argument that nobody under the age of 50 cares about. 

Wigan can be a Manchester club, saints a liverpool club, wakefield is a decent sized city. 

Huddersfield have been in SL for decades now, toulouse are doing better than les Catalans did outside of SL, there is no reason that sheffield and London cant grow.

It's odd to see RL fans so desperate to rubbish RL. 

There is more chance of a big club in all those areas you disparage than in these small heartland towns who are just cannibalising this same market.

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2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It's a parochial argument that nobody under the age of 50 cares about. 

Wigan can be a Manchester club, saints a liverpool club, wakefield is a decent sized city. 

Huddersfield have been in SL for decades now, toulouse are doing better than les Catalans did outside of SL, there is no reason that sheffield and London cant grow.

It's odd to see RL fans so desperate to rubbish RL. 

There is more chance of a big club in all those areas you disparage than in these small heartland towns who are just cannibalising this same market.

I’m not rubbishing RL, I think it’s great which is why I don’t necessarily feel the need to want clubs in big cities where nobody is interested at the expense of those in smaller towns where people are. 

And Wigan can’t be a Manchester club and Saints can’t be a liverpool club. I assume you’re not from the North West if you think they can. 

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1 minute ago, Eddie said:

I’m not rubbishing RL, I think it’s great which is why I don’t necessarily feel the need to want clubs in big cities where nobody is interested at the expense of those in smaller towns where people are. 

And Wigan can’t be a Manchester club and Saints can’t be a liverpool club. I assume you’re not from the North West if you think they can. 

He's Leeds 😉

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4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I’m not rubbishing RL, I think it’s great which is why I don’t necessarily feel the need to want clubs in big cities where nobody is interested at the expense of those in smaller towns where people are. 

And Wigan can’t be a Manchester club and Saints can’t be a liverpool club. I assume you’re not from the North West if you think they can. 

Utter parochial nonsense I'm afraid. 

It's not insecurity that means the game needs to move to big cities, is that these small areas dont have the money.

And it shows the limits some RL fans put on the game, man utd go to asia and the rest of the world to sell themselves, they bring in fans from all over the world and for some reason RL believes that it cant spread at all to the wider area outside the small area it defines itself. It's just silly to pretend there is some inherent reason why only people fro. Certain areas can be interested in RL. 

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13 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Utter parochial nonsense I'm afraid. 

It's not insecurity that means the game needs to move to big cities, is that these small areas dont have the money.

And it shows the limits some RL fans put on the game, man utd go to asia and the rest of the world to sell themselves, they bring in fans from all over the world and for some reason RL believes that it cant spread at all to the wider area outside the small area it defines itself. It's just silly to pretend there is some inherent reason why only people fro. Certain areas can be interested in RL. 

So you don't want Wigan to rebrand as Manchester , you just want them to do what exactly ? , Same with Saints and Liverpool 

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17 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Utter parochial nonsense I'm afraid. 

It's not insecurity that means the game needs to move to big cities, is that these small areas dont have the money.

And it shows the limits some RL fans put on the game, man utd go to asia and the rest of the world to sell themselves, they bring in fans from all over the world and for some reason RL believes that it cant spread at all to the wider area outside the small area it defines itself. It's just silly to pretend there is some inherent reason why only people fro. Certain areas can be interested in RL. 

People in Manchester won’t ever see Wigan as their club, any more than people in Leeds would see Halifax as theirs. If the game is to grow in Manchester it would need to be Salford or a new club (let’s call them Rangers) who’d do it. 

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18 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

 Do you just want a closed shop with the current elite clubs,and London?

All I want is people to know and acknowledge is "big city" TWP came into the game here promising players and TV deals. Last week they made McDermott come out and say they cannot get a TV deal and now he’s been sent out to say they’ll never develop players for at least 15 years if ever.

There's no point to the debate if you and especially people like Scotchy keep on telling us that big city clubs are the future when they clearly are not because as many big money people may live in these places they have no interest in Rugby League, and furthermore wherever Rugby League may attract investment you can be sure Rugby Union will be there deliberately muscling us out which happens regularly in a number of countries but you and Scotchy and others just do not realise it, and you don't look anything up or talk to people in the know.

Like it or not TWP will be gone in time as SL bosses didn't want them not because they are "anti expansion" but because TWP aren't actually expansion just a rich Australians made up club. I'm not trying to offend TWP or their fans but that is what they are. That is how SL bosses and most SL fans see them.

On 10/10/2019 at 10:27, scotchy1 said:

Featherstone just arent comparable to some of the clubs being mentioned here in this thread. 

Clearly you have had to hit the "ignore" button a lot of times to be able to ignore the facts and go on trying to sell the idea of big cities where they don't play RL but invariably play RU, and where they do have many rich people but invariably none interested in Rugby league is going to be the games future.

Like it or not Featherstone Rovers have had some great times down the years and have carried off both the Cup and the league under the noses of far bigger clubs than themselves, and they did that with many local players many of whom were Internationals. Like it or not Featherstone Rovers will always offer more than Toronto Wolfpack can ever offer to the game here They may be small and just about solvent, but in contrast what you fail to acknowledge is TWP are $10,000,000 in debt. and don't have any home grown players nor do they underpin any TV deal which Featherstone would have brought to SL had they got the promotion spot.

This is the truth of your big city nonsense - even if Investors fancied a go with an RL club in places they don't play it it is not an investment. There are no profits to be made from Rugby League. You have to want to flush £$£$Millions down the drain if you want to run a pro-rugby league club. Why can't you and others see this fact?

This is why TWP are where they are because their RL loving Aussie owner is happy to flush sackfulls of dollars down the toilet but let's not pretend other people in Canada, the USA or even Ireland, Wales or Scotland or even Copenhagen, Barcelona or Belgrade have any interest in doing that.  If anyone did RU would be knocking on their door.

On 14/10/2019 at 09:17, GUBRATS said:

Well I've been sunning myself for a week in the east med and now I'm back it's great to see I've missed nothing 

Indeed - the fantasy goes on and on.  As you are here I am inclined to continue to call out Scotchy on his big city nonsense by noting that your own small town has provided us with a rich investor who took Leigh to Superleague. I must note your 11th. place finish was worthy of you retaining your place in Superleague as well but the crackpot play off system did for you.

Nevertheless Mr. Beaumont is up for another go next season and I wish him and your club all the very best. I  fear however your promotion in 2020 may just see the wrong club relegated for you. By that time however the new and reduced SKY deal may just put an end to the Transatlantic dream.

Please let's stop thinking Argyle flushing $Millions down the bog is "expansion".......Expansion is by Perez's own definition more quality players and more TV money. let's see who still doesn't get that.............

Edited by The Parksider
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4 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

All I want is people to know and acknowledge "big city" TWP came into the game here promising players and TV deals. Last week they made McDermott come out and say they cannot get a TV deal and now he’s been sent out to say they’ll never develop players for at least 15 years if ever.

There's no point to the debate if you and especially people like Scotchy keep on telling us that big city clubs are the future when they clearly are not because as many big money people may live in these places they have no interest in Rugby League, and furthermore wherever Rugby League may attract investment you can be sure Rugby Union will be there deliberately muscling us out which happens regularly in a number of countries but you and Scotchy and others just do not realise it, and you don't look anything up or talk to people in the know.

Like it or not TWP will be gone in time as SL bosses didn't want them not because they are "anti expansion" but because TWP aren't actually expansion just a rich Australians made up club. I'm not trying to offend TWP or their fans but that is what they are. That is how SL bosses and most SL fans see them.

Clearly you have had to hit the "ignore" button a lot of times to be able to ignore the facts and go on trying to sell the idea of big cities where they don't play RL but invariably play RU, and where they do have many rich people but invariably none interested in Rugby league is going to be the games future.

Like it or not Featherstone Rovers have had some great times down the years and have carried off both the Cup and the league under the noses of far bigger clubs than themselves, and they did that with many local players many of whom were Internationals. Like it or not Featherstone Rovers will always offer more than Toronto Wolfpack can ever offer to the game here They may be small and just about solvent, but in contrast what you fail to acknowledge is TWP are $10,000,000 in debt. and don't have any home grown players nor do they underpin any TV deal which Featherstone would have brought to SL had they got the promotion spot.

This is the truth of your big city nonsense - even if Investors fancied a go with an RL club in places they don't play it it is not an investment. There are no profits to be made from Rugby League. You have to want to flush £$£$Millions down the drain if you want to run a pro-rugby league club. Why can't you and others see this fact?

This is why TWP are where they are because their RL loving Aussie owner is happy to flush sackfulls of dollars down the toilet but let's not pretend other people in Canada, the USA or even Ireland, Wales or Scotland or even Copenhagen, Barcelona or Belgrade have any interest in doing that.  If anyone did RU would be knocking on their door.

Indeed - the fantasy goes on and on.  As you are here I am inclined to continue to call out Scotchy on his big city nonsense by noting that your own small town has provided us with a rich investor who took Leigh to Superleague. I must note your 11th. place finish was worthy of you retaining your place in Superleague as well but the crackpot play off system did for you.

Nevertheless Mr. Beaumont is up for another go next season and I wish him and your club all the very best. I  fear however your promotion in 2020 may just see the wrong club relegated for you. By that time however the new and reduced SKY deal may just put an end to the Transatlantic dream.

Parky Rugby League is dying a death in the M62 corridor junior clubs are folding due to lack of playing numbers we need to expand

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3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I agree it would probably be better for the game , but I don't understand what influence I would have on it , I would just still go watching Leigh 

When a collective attitude of negativity - it'll never happen, what's the point etc etc - grows to the point where it becomes the stock response, then what you have is an inbuilt resistance to change and growth.

People complained about how Toronto could pay for transatlantic flights. Hadn’t those people ever heard of sponsorship? 

People complained about no rugby league culture in Canada. Why, because only the British could be interested in the 'greatest game'? 

I'm not blind to the difficulties and challenges and yes, boundaries and limitations, but the constant glass-half-empty mentality becomes a bit much.

Good luck Toronto, good luck Featherstone, and good luck to anybody who tries to make a go of it. 

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1 minute ago, solly said:

When a collective attitude of negativity - it'll never happen, what's the point etc etc - grows to the point where it becomes the stock response, then what you have is an inbuilt resistance to change and growth.

People complained about how Toronto could pay for transatlantic flights. Hadn’t those people ever heard of sponsorship? 

People complained about no rugby league culture in Canada. Why, because only the British could be interested in the 'greatest game'? 

I'm not blind to the difficulties and challenges and yes, boundaries and limitations, but the constant glass-half-empty mentality becomes a bit much.

Good luck Toronto, good luck Featherstone, and good luck to anybody who tries to make a go of it. 

So how do you want me to influence the idea of a ' big city ' SL ?

And again with my other question , you expect fans and owners of current 'small town ' SL clubs to do what exactly ?

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12 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So how do you want me to influence the idea of a ' big city ' SL ?

And again with my other question , you expect fans and owners of current 'small town ' SL clubs to do what exactly ?

I don't know That's your responsiblity, not mine. 

As for your second question, not bury modernity with the past. 

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48 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Parky Rugby League is dying a death in the M62 corridor junior clubs are folding due to lack of playing numbers we need to expand

yep, and no doubt we are all concerned. What I can not understand is how we achieve  expansion without accelerating what we have in what would be called the heart lands.  Both need investment in time and monies.

Its a chicken and egg question that apart from having a dream of what it should look like, I ain't seen any semblance of how its achieved.

I welcome Toronto. Never-the-less I think there are substantive questions that need to be asked and addressed. For example, if a number of other Toronto's come along taking existing players from the player pathways that have been invested in were does that leave the sport.  As surely that impacts the current clubs that are investing in the player pathways such that it severely impacts the existing footprint.

Lets say ultimately 4 or 5 super City or should say glamour city clubs created (as seems to be suggest like Barcelona from McDermott) then how long do we have them ride on the back of the investment by the existing non glamour clubs until their bringing in the new financial riches and producing player pathways into the sport.  Is it just by those expansion of glamour city clubs that our brand increases almost overnight to bring in the monies to the sport to utilise.

Of course its a manged process, but how is it done. all I read is the dream not the how too without losing the heartlands fanbase that currently keeps us alive as a sport. 

Its not being negative, just wanting to see if its a viable plan leading to a promised land or destruction of the game on these shores.

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

So you don't want Wigan to rebrand as Manchester , you just want them to do what exactly ? , Same with Saints and Liverpool 

Engage with them, sell themselves to them and for the game itself to sell them as part of it

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15 minutes ago, solly said:

I don't know That's your responsiblity, not mine. 

As for your second question, not bury modernity with the past. 

What ? , What the Hell does that mean in English ? , Don't try and act clever , that's Scotchys job 

What do you want those fans and owners to do ? 

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1 hour ago, Eddie said:

People in Manchester won’t ever see Wigan as their club, any more than people in Leeds would see Halifax as theirs. If the game is to grow in Manchester it would need to be Salford or a new club (let’s call them Rangers) who’d do it. 

It's just not true, there are tonnes of lufc and yccc fans based in the other towns and cities of Yorkshire 

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2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Engage with them, sell themselves to them and for the game itself to sell them as part of it

So you want Eamon to pour major cash into marketing in the greater Liverpool area rather than the St Helens area ?

Similarily with Mr Leneghan and Manchester ?

Fair enough , I don't see much wrong with that , personally don't think it'll work , but I don't suppose they'd know for sure without trying 

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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It's just not true, there are tonnes of lufc and yccc fans based in the other towns and cities of Yorkshire 

Yes but Yorkshire are ###### at football , including Leeds , so not much other option is there really 

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17 minutes ago, redjonn said:

yep, and no doubt we are all concerned. What I can not understand is how we achieve  expansion without accelerating what we have in what would be called the heart lands.  Both need investment in time and monies.

Its a chicken and egg question that apart from having a dream of what it should look like, I ain't seen any semblance of how its achieved.

I welcome Toronto. Never-the-less I think there are substantive questions that need to be asked and addressed. For example, if a number of other Toronto's come along taking existing players from the player pathways that have been invested in were does that leave the sport.  As surely that impacts the current clubs that are investing in the player pathways such that it severely impacts the existing footprint.

Lets say ultimately 4 or 5 super City or should say glamour city clubs created (as seems to be suggest like Barcelona from McDermott) then how long do we have them ride on the back of the investment by the existing non glamour clubs until their bringing in the new financial riches and producing player pathways into the sport.  Is it just by those expansion of glamour city clubs that our brand increases almost overnight to bring in the monies to the sport to utilise.

Of course its a manged process, but how is it done. all I read is the dream not the how too without losing the heartlands fanbase that currently keeps us alive as a sport. 

Its not being negative, just wanting to see if its a viable plan leading to a promised land or destruction of the game on these shores.

I keep asking , but you just get ' buzzwords ' back , it's a bit like an episode of the ' office ' and that was rubbish as well 

Edited by GUBRATS

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18 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

What ? , What the Hell does that mean in English ? , Don't try and act clever , that's Scotchys job 

What do you want those fans and owners to do ? 

Yes, it's English... 

I'm not a marketer. I don’t know all the techniques they use to 'spread the word.' But I can see that when used well it works.

 

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1 minute ago, solly said:

Yes, it's English... 

I'm not a marketer. I don’t know all the techniques they use to 'spread the word.' But I can see that when used well it works.

 

So you want them to do ' something ' , but you don't have a clue what it is ? , Fair enough 

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23 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes but Yorkshire are ###### at football , including Leeds , so not much other option is there really 

Thats false though isn't it Yorkshire has had more premier League sides than Lancashire (unless you include the Scousers under the old borders)

Edited by Tommygilf

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On 14/10/2019 at 09:17, GUBRATS said:

Well I've been sunning myself for a week in the east med and now I'm back it's great to see I've missed nothing 

You've been on here long enough to know you could have been away for ten years.

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Just because you think everyone hates you doesn't mean they don't.

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So you want them to do ' something ' , but you don't have a clue what it is ? , Fair enough 

Some people are experts at these sorts of things. It would be best to consult them.

What I can say is that Toronto had zero fans and zero perceived interest. Three years later, they are drawing around 7,000 people per match, feature in mass media and people can't stop talking about them.

London, on the other hand, have had twenty years and yet... 

Clearly London have done something wrong and Toronto have done something right.

There's no shame in learning from those who seem to know how to do. 

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