solly Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, DC77 said: What Toronto do cannot be replicated in London for this reason. Mentioned parochialism I was actually going to write that perhaps not everything Toronto have done would be applicable to London but I thought that would be obvious. But the point is that you can still learn from those who have been successful at it. The specifics might differ but the concept wouldn’t - engaging with people in such a way so that they want to be part of the sport. Also, the Australian example is a bit off. People here had meltdowns over the mergers that did go ahead. Thousands were lost to the code. But you know what? The code has moved on from them. Alas, they haven't. Too bad for them. The merged clubs are new clubs and are developing new histories, traditions, and narratives. And new fans too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, solly said: One of the goals of expansion in general is to help generate an increase in media rights money, ie: greater central finding. The pot that everyone is dipping their hands into is supposed to grow larger. Yes but that's where the chicken and egg situation comes in , to get the new cash you need enough new clubs , but the current cash ( and player pool ) will struggle to keep things going till the new cash comes in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, Kayakman said: I didn't..he took my post and totally changed it to suit some sort of perceived bias he has against outsiders in his post...crazy. That is totally made up and wasn't in any of my post at all...I think Gubrats is trying to fill the vacuum void left after Parky's mea culpa. He is just making stuff up. So your calling me liar ? , I've admitted I read it wrong , not difficult with various ' debates ' happening at once , but believe what you want ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, solly said: I was actually going to write that perhaps not everything Toronto have done would be applicable to London but I thought that would be obvious. But the point is that you can still learn from those who have been successful at it. The specifics might differ but the concept wouldn’t - engaging with people in such a way so that they want to be part of the sport. Also, the Australian example is a bit off. People here had meltdowns over the mergers that did go ahead. Thousands were lost to the code. But you know what? The code has moved on from them. Alas, they haven't. Too bad for them. The merged clubs are new clubs and are developing new histories, traditions, and narratives. And new fans too. What could London Broncos learn from Toronto Wolfpack...... Swap their millionaire owner for an owner with hundreds of millions. That's the key thing, the rest would come from that surely, naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solly Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: Yes but that's where the chicken and egg situation comes in , to get the new cash you need enough new clubs , but the current cash ( and player pool ) will struggle to keep things going till the new cash comes in The code could try marketing its current competition better. It shouldn't have needed a Toronto in the first place, (assuming they take advantage of them, that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: It's not really an either or thing, they need to do both but the thing is that if they are to continue to compete as the game grows then they will need to expand their market anyway. Those clubs are probably, financially, currently around the 3rd or 4th biggest in the country. Behind leeds and les Catalans. Toronto come up and they drop a spot, Toulouse grow like les Catalans have and they drop another spot. Moran is doing a lo of work to grow wire and they could drop another spot. In a best case scenario and Ottawa and NYC take off thats another two spots, newcastle and London grow and it's another two. Sts and wigan cant afford to stand still otherwise they will be left behind. They need to expand to keep their position at the top of the game So you are stating what I said , spending more on marketing , totally agree , everybody should be doing it , always stated as such , are they not already currently doing it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 19 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Aston villa, west Bromwich Albion everton 150 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solly Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Smudger06 said: What could London Broncos learn from Toronto Wolfpack...... Swap their millionaire owner for an owner with hundreds of millions. That's the key thing, the rest would come from that surely, naturally. Stability, for one. Toronto made sure to stay in the one spot and turned their matches in an average stadium into community events. London, for reasons I'm not too fully aware of, have never settled anywhere to call home. As for millionaires, didn't Branson have a few pounds to spare? Who was giving him investment advice back then because whoever it was screwed up. As for what else London could learn from Toronto, how about media saviness, both social and mainstream? How about crowd and community engagement? I'm sure the two clubs could have some very interesting and useful conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, solly said: I was actually going to write that perhaps not everything Toronto have done would be applicable to London but I thought that would be obvious. But the point is that you can still learn from those who have been successful at it. The specifics might differ but the concept wouldn’t - engaging with people in such a way so that they want to be part of the sport. Also, the Australian example is a bit off. People here had meltdowns over the mergers that did go ahead. Thousands were lost to the code. But you know what? The code has moved on from them. Alas, they haven't. Too bad for them. The merged clubs are new clubs and are developing new histories, traditions, and narratives. And new fans too. You're an Aussie ? , Of course , there's nothing I can tell you about anything , I should have known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, solly said: Stability, for one. Toronto made sure to stay in the one spot and turned their matches in an average stadium into community events. London, for reasons I'm not too fully aware of, have never settled anywhere to call home. As for millionaires, didn't Branson have a few pounds to spare? Who was giving him investment advice back then because whoever it was screwed up. As for what else London could learn from Toronto, how about media saviness, both social and mainstream? How about crowd and community engagement? I'm sure the two clubs could have some very interesting and useful conversations. They both have a lot in common , they Both go through cash At a very high rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 39 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Aston villa, west Bromwich Albion everton Villa are from the city of Birmingham and Everton from the city of Liverpool. Their fans come from the cities and surrounding areas which is what I said. The name is irrelevant as these are or were the dominant club in their city and founder members of the football league, and age synonymous with their city I take your point about WBA to some extent but their fans are from the surrounding towns (Dudley etc) that don’t have league teams, not Birmingham or bigger towns than West Bromwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: You're an Aussie ? , Of course , there's nothing I can tell you about anything , I should have known excellent, casual racism, just what this thread needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, RP London said: excellent, casual racism, just what this thread needed Just my experience of life , the Aussie brain is I have found just superior in every way , they literally know everything about everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: Just my experience of life , the Aussie brain is I have found just superior in every way , they literally know everything about everything Thats it.. keep it going... we'll get this locked somehow (Have CKN and Mr Drake gone on holiday together?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 42 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: So your calling me liar ? , I've admitted I read it wrong , not difficult with various ' debates ' happening at once , but believe what you want ? No...you are actually calling yourself a liar! Learn to read it right the first time then instead of intentionally trying to rile folks up on here for no reason. What I believe is always based on sound logical and proven fact...I certainly just don't believe what I want to believe just because it makes ME FEEL GOOD.....popular belief is not an opinion Gubs. I think you need a cup of coffee....grab me one while you are at it....cream and sugar please. Thats a good fellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Just now, Kayakman said: No...you are actually calling yourself a liar! Learn to read it right the first time then instead of intentionally trying to rile folks up on here for no reason. What I believe is always based on sound logical and proven fact...I certainly just don't believe what I want to believe just because it makes ME FEEL GOOD.....popular belief is not an opinion Gubs. I think you need a cup of coffee....grab me one while you are at it....cream and sugar please. Thats a good fellow. Bye , if you won't take an honest reply and explanation , there's not much point in us debating anything , all the best for next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, scotchy1 said: It's not really an either or thing, they need to do both but the thing is that if they are to continue to compete as the game grows then they will need to expand their market anyway. Those clubs are probably, financially, currently around the 3rd or 4th biggest in the country. Behind leeds and les Catalans. Toronto come up and they drop a spot, Toulouse grow like les Catalans have and they drop another spot. Moran is doing a lo of work to grow wire and they could drop another spot. In a best case scenario and Ottawa and NYC take off thats another two spots, newcastle and London grow and it's another two. Sts and wigan cant afford to stand still otherwise they will be left behind. They need to expand to keep their position at the top of the game Where do you get this stuff from? Have you been to Toulouse? Have you seen the pathetic crowds they get? Have you seen the enormous Stadium TFC that the Union side play in? You're living in a fool's paradise. I should stay off the grass old pal. “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: Bye , if you won't take an honest reply and explanation , there's not much point in us debating anything , all the best for next year Sounds like you have made up your mind already before hearing all the facts..... All the best right back at ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 21 hours ago, scotchy1 said: You can pretend its arrogant or patronising if you want. It wont alter the fact that size does matter We can wish it didnt and wish sport was played in a true corinthian spirit, but however hard we wish it wont be true and the bills will still need to be paid Wasn’t trying to be either. But I knew you would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelic Cynic Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 7 hours ago, The Parksider said: All I want is people to know and acknowledge is "big city" TWP came into the game here promising players and TV deals. Last week they made McDermott come out and say they cannot get a TV deal and now he’s been sent out to say they’ll never develop players for at least 15 years if ever. There's no point to the debate if you and especially people like Scotchy keep on telling us that big city clubs are the future when they clearly are not because as many big money people may live in these places they have no interest in Rugby League, and furthermore wherever Rugby League may attract investment you can be sure Rugby Union will be there deliberately muscling us out which happens regularly in a number of countries but you and Scotchy and others just do not realise it, and you don't look anything up or talk to people in the know. Like it or not TWP will be gone in time as SL bosses didn't want them not because they are "anti expansion" but because TWP aren't actually expansion just a rich Australians made up club. I'm not trying to offend TWP or their fans but that is what they are. That is how SL bosses and most SL fans see them. At no point,and nowhere have I typed out,that big city clubs are the future. The thoughts of Super League bosses don't seem to go far beyond keeping all the money themselves and they are so poor,collectively,that they require the services of another individual to improve things for them. Most people recognise that developing players takes a number of years.Even the transferring of skills from one of the rugby codes to the other requires time,even from the more proficient of players. With the problems at clubs with a rich heritage,like Swinton,Rochdale and Bradford,perhaps Toronto will be left standing in 15 years time by which time they will be left producing a higher number of players than other areas that produced them over past decades. No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said: At no point,and nowhere have I typed out,that big city clubs are the future. The thoughts of Super League bosses don't seem to go far beyond keeping all the money themselves and they are so poor,collectively,that they require the services of another individual to improve things for them. Most people recognise that developing players takes a number of years.Even the transferring of skills from one of the rugby codes to the other requires time,even from the more proficient of players. With the problems at clubs with a rich heritage,like Swinton,Rochdale and Bradford,perhaps Toronto will be left standing in 15 years time by which time they will be left producing a higher number of players than other areas that produced them over past decades. Unlikely in 15 years , to achieve anything like that would require very large investment right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Toulouse Olympique in a league with nobody else in the same country average attendance 2488. Pathetic terrible. Rubbish Featherstone rovers in a league where most clubs are within an hour or two average attendance 2235. Brilliant, shows the potential of the club. I'm a fan of Toulouse , but having been it will require many years and a actual success in SL to see them build up to challenge the current best of SL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Arent they moving in to Stade ernest Wallon on promotion? That's fantastic for SL. But as we saw with les Catalans, promotion is a catalyst to move forward very very quickly I think they're moving there next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Baldrick Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 32 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Arent they moving in to Stade ernest Wallon on promotion? That's fantastic for SL. But as we saw with les Catalans, promotion is a catalyst to move forward very very quickly Would promotion be a catalyst for ANY club, or just Toulouse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Just now, scotchy1 said: Arent they moving in to Stade ernest Wallon on promotion? That's fantastic for SL. But as we saw with les Catalans, promotion is a catalyst to move forward very very quickly I can't remember Catalans playing in, and getting promoted from the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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