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Smudger06

Brian McDermott's Big City Team League

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17 minutes ago, Wiltshire Rhino said:

I have no problem with small northern towns playing RL. If it wasn't for small northern towns there would be no RL. 

However BM wants to grow and expand the RL market and he believes Toronto vs Barcelona would be more inviting to sponsors than Leigh vs Hunslet. 

Is a big city SL pie in the sky? Probably. 

But so is expecting money to come to a small northern town game. 

RU began with small elite public schools.  We now see all countries from all the world playing together, some in large multi million pound stadiums ... in JAPAN !!!  All watched by millions on prime time terrestrial TV.  And the host Japan are one of the successful teams.

Meantime, parochial RL is eating itself into nothing.

 

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32 minutes ago, RP London said:

The clubs in most places are not moving forward. We're getting excited this year because Warrington and Wolfie are having fun on Social Media and Anthony Gelling can be fun. This should all be the minimum that these clubs are doing not the stand out club and personality.. 

there is too much self interest from the clubs (which i do understand the reasoning for) but they don't see how growing others can help grow themselves.. which is what we need. IMHO that is the small time mentality that is prevalent and needs to change. 

A little self interest is not a bad thing - clubs are ultimately competing to be better than the other eleven at the end of the day, but that self-interest is currently being directed in the wrong places. 

The self-interest that we see is about running at the pace of our slowest man. It's why we see a scrambling over small amounts of central funding, why we're imposing pay cuts on playing talent that is already grossly underpaid. That self-interest isn't being focused on growth.

At the moment, the tail is wagging the dog. I would quite happily see 12 individual clubs all putting their own efforts into growing their revenue, their audience and their clubs, but as it stands we have the can'ts and won'ts minimising the return for those that can and do. 

For me, increase the cap so that it equivalent in real terms with 1999, reintroduce the 50% of turnover rule and limit the amount of "director loans" that count towards that 50% for the purposes of the salary cap. It's time for the dog to start wagging the tail. 

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52 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Look at McDermott's comments in the context of the last couple of years. 

The 'small town' clubs have derided, undermined and stuck two fingers up at Toronto, through nothing more than fear. 

We've had "bondgate" at this years Challenge Cup, because heaven forbid a new team might be successful. We've had an SL chairmen-led shakedown of Toronto for their central funding, arguing over a sum of money that would be seen as paltry in most elite sports. We've had three years of clubs complaining about visas despite Toronto providing free legal assistance to any that request it. 

This is the small time mentality that McDermott and Toronto are challenging. They've had three years of the 'small town' clubs sticking two fingers to them - doesn't McDermott, a man who knows more than a bit about expansion clubs, get to stick two fingers back? 

Which small town clubs have done that?

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Just now, hrtbps said:

Which small town clubs have done that?

How many clubs have been subject to a cash grab of central funding in the history of Super League?

We have had clubs complaining about visa issues that were both very easy to address, and well within the scope of the support that Toronto are providing to clubs. 

We've had clubs complaining that the free travel provided by TW doesn't provide them with direct business class seats to their front door. 

We have had the RFL imposing bonds on overseas clubs because they're worried that, heaven forbid, the might actually have to market an event. 

There has been no shortage of clubs queuing up to stick the boot in and take their pound of flesh. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

How many clubs have been subject to a cash grab of central funding in the history of Super League?

We have had clubs complaining about visa issues that were both very easy to address, and well within the scope of the support that Toronto are providing to clubs. 

We've had clubs complaining that the free travel provided by TW doesn't provide them with direct business class seats to their front door. 

We have had the RFL imposing bonds on overseas clubs because they're worried that, heaven forbid, the might actually have to market an event. 

There has been no shortage of clubs queuing up to stick the boot in and take their pound of flesh. 

 

 

Which clubs though?

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I really like this Big City league idea, makes you wonder what the RFL have been playing at for 125 years not thinking of it.

I’ve written to the directors of St Helens and Widnes this morning suggesting that they merge and move into Everton’s new ground at Bramley Dock when it opens in 2022 (should give plenty of time to secure sponsorship deals with decent companies like Vodafone and Microsoft). Not sure if the 52,000 capacity will be enough in the medium to long term but it should be sufficient for the first couple of seasons. They will play in Blue and Red hoops and be called the Liverpool Beatles, to help build the global fan base. 

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4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I really like this Big City league idea, makes you wonder what the RFL have been playing at for 125 years not thinking of it.

I’ve written to the directors of St Helens and Widnes this morning suggesting that they merge and move into Everton’s new ground at Bramley Dock when it opens in 2022 (should give plenty of time to secure sponsorship deals with decent companies like Vodafone and Microsoft). Not sure if the 52,000 capacity will be enough in the medium to long term but it should be sufficient for the first couple of seasons. They will play in Blue and Red hoops and be called the Liverpool Beatles, to help build the global fan base. 

Joking apart, there is nothing to stop St Helens from making themselves more appealing to the population of Liverpool. 

Clubs are allowed to promote themselves outside their own postcode. 

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17 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Joking apart, there is nothing to stop St Helens from making themselves more appealing to the population of Liverpool. 

Clubs are allowed to promote themselves outside their own postcode. 

There’s plenty of reasons, many very good ones, why Saints don’t bother with Liverpool. 

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1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Joking apart, there is nothing to stop St Helens from making themselves more appealing to the population of Liverpool. 

Clubs are allowed to promote themselves outside their own postcode. 

There is literally nothing Saints could do to make them appeal to anything more than a handful of Scousers. 

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12 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Sounded like he’s been talking to Jon Wilkin, who reckons himself to be something of an intellectual but is actually a half-wit who hasn’t thought it through.

Wilkin would fit in well on the forum then. 

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Four legs good - two legs bad

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29 minutes ago, Eddie said:

There is literally nothing Saints could do to make them appeal to anything more than a handful of Scousers. 

Why not? Are you genuinely telling me that there aren't people in the Liverpool City Region that couldn't be tempted to part with a few quid for a worthwhile event? I find it hard to believe. Don't get me wrong, it's not something that's easy, but its not supposed to he easy. 

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3 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Why not? Are you genuinely telling me that there aren't people in the Liverpool City Region that couldn't be tempted to part with a few quid for a worthwhile event? I find it hard to believe. Don't get me wrong, it's not something that's easy, but its not supposed to he easy. 

Yes I am saying that. 99% of Scousers are interested in nothing except Liverpool and Everton, and never will be. 

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3 hours ago, BladeHearts said:

I don’t think that there is anything wrong with what Brian McDermott, the game clearly has to grow or die.

Whilst I am absolutely delighted that Toronto have been promoted , I would have been against any shenanigans being deployed to stop Featherstone being promoted to Super League.  That said I don’t think the presence of Rovers would have been beneficial to the commercial viability of the League - but sporting integrity should be paramount.

That said the game does need to grow to the level where competing at Super League level becomes an impossibility for Featherstone, because the clubs in Super League have simply grown too big for a small village side to compete with.

By this I mean we need all SL sides to grow into clubs where everyone is drawing a minimum of 10k, then we need to be raising the bar to 15k... obviously to do this we need thriving clubs in strong areas of population.

We need a strong core of Leeds, Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Catalans and the Hull sides, we need Salford to become a giant representing all of Manchester, in a perfect world Swinton as well.  We need Bradford back drawing the crowds they had in the late 90s, but we also need new blood, we need Toulouse, we need to make London work, we need Toronto nailing it in Super League with Ottawa to follow, we need Toulouse and we also need Newcastle to thrive and work their way organically up the divisions.  We also need Sheffield to breakthrough into the consciousness of their sporting public.

RL needs ambitious plans for growth and whilst no one can guarantee their success, it surely has to be better than the game dying a slow death by a thousand cuts.

How can London work if they have play teams from small northern towns like Wigan and St Helens?  How are Sheffield supposed to break through into the consciousness of their sporting public playing teams from such places which no evidence suggests that Sheffielders rate?  That's the issue which needs a solution.

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2 hours ago, tuutaisrambo said:

I'm used to the belittling of Fev and other smaller heartland clubs who survive on very little and are often criticised for it by certain "enlightened"  RL people........ I try to just ignore it and enjoy watching my team.

However the comments about Salford are simply ridiculous..........Last time i checked Salford is a City (where the BBC head office is).

Really don't see how them making a GF is bad for the sport

Mississauga is a city too but that's irrelevant because it's just a big suburb of Toronto so anyone trying to promote a Mississauga pro sports team would have a tough job on their hands.  Salford is likely seen that way in respect of Manchester by many Brits.

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4 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Mississauga is a city too but that's irrelevant because it's just a big suburb of Toronto so anyone trying to promote a Mississauga pro sports team would have a tough job on their hands.  Salford is likely seen that way in respect of Manchester by many Brits.

Do you think Everton should change their name to Liverpool City then, and Aston Villa to Birmingham Utd? What about Celtic and Rangers too, how on Earth have they survived without the Glasgow prefix being used all the time. 

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12 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Yes I am saying that. 99% of Scousers are interested in nothing except Liverpool and Everton, and never will be. 

Which is why no other leisure business exists within miles of Liverpool....🙄 

There are people across the Liverpool region with money to spend. Some of that money will be spent on things other than Liverpool FC or Everton. There's no good reason why some of that couldn't be spent on an event involving St Helens RL. 

But yeah, let's not even bother trying....

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Just now, Eddie said:

Do you think Everton should change their name to Liverpool City then, and Aston Villa to Birmingham Utd? What about Celtic and Rangers too, how on Earth have they survived without the Glasgow prefix being used all the time. 

Those clubs wouldn't have any need to change their names, they're already well-established and widely known by those identities and known to be based in those big cities.  Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Salford and the other traditional English RL clubs don't have that going for them.

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4 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I’d be interested to know how McDermott, a man from a “small northern town”, would have got to a stage in life where he’s coaching a major city based Rugby League team without the “small northern town” he calls his birthplace. 

What? 

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1 minute ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Which is why no other leisure business exists within miles of Liverpool....🙄 

There are people across the Liverpool region with money to spend. Some of that money will be spent on things other than Liverpool FC or Everton. There's no good reason why some of that couldn't be spent on an event involving St Helens RL. 

But yeah, let's not even bother trying....

I’m from there and I’m telling you RL will never be anything but a tiny sport there, and the few people who are interested will go to Saints or Widnes, they’re not far. There is only one club in the whole city that I know of, and they may not even be going now. 

Its easy to say let’s not even bother trying but it would just be a waste of money. If you have money to throw at it though then go ahead. 

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5 hours ago, Damien said:

The big city teams that have came in into the NRL/ARL are all League heartlands anyway, bar Melbourne, and strong Rugby League areas in their own right with strong local competitions.

Canberra had around 230k people when the Raiders were established and long time locals tell me that Aussie rules was more popular at the time. 

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The ridiculous thing about threads like these is the same people who will argue that nobody from fev would watch a wakefield team will also argue that fev can gain supporters from pontefract and other towns. They will tell you categorically that St Helen's cannot ever get fans from liverpool or Wigan from Manchester and their reach for some reason is only every limited to certain towns and villages within the liverpool and Manchester city areas. They will also throw in Green Bay Packers as a small town sustaining a massive support base as if it proves their point rather than completely demolish it.

The fact is that the game doesnt need big city clubs it needs big clubs. Everything else is just branding. It's not even a complex question. 

Big clubs are generally in big cities because that's where the people and the money is. If fev were/are a big club it doesnt matter that they are in a small northern pit town. It isnt because Featherstone is a small town with little money little industry and no recognition that super league isnt the right place for them. Its because the club is a small club with few fans, little money, little sponsorship and no real idea or plan for where any of those will come from. Fev arent a big club and have no plan or idea about how to become a big club. That is the problem. 

Similarly Wakefield is a decent sized city, but they also arent a big club and have no plan or idea or really if we are honest any realistic ambition to be a big club. 

We dont need more wakefields is SL any more than we need more Fevs. We need big clubs. 

Wigan however are a big club, and they are a big club in a big recognisable city. St Helen's are a big club in a big recognisable city, Leeds are, Bradford were and could be again, Hull are, Toronto are already, Touluose certainly could be, les Catalans are a big club who expanded their brand to cover a big recognisable area. 

The game has locked itself in a wierd box where because we dont have big clubs we shouldn't try and build them and because small towns in other sports have expanded their brand to attract more people we should pretend that our small towns have aswell even though they have never done so and we are also supposed to excuse their poor performance on the difficulty of them doing so.

If small towns want to compete in the big league be a big club. If they are a small club, in a small town then they cant be surprised that bigger cities with more money and more potential are prioritised over them

Edited by scotchy1
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