Sat 12 Oct: SLGF: Salford Red Devils v St Helens KO 6pm (TV)

[Dave T]

I'd be surprised if Saints bottle this one after their comprehensive beating by the ref in the Cup.

But I have been really impressed with Salford's hustling defence and that is the kind of quality that forces teams into errors and panic Rugby which Saints are not immune to.

If I had to put money on, it's clearly be on Saints, but I wont be surprised if Salford and the ref stole this one from them.

Obviously I'd love Salford to win and will be cheering them on, but I'll also be ok if Saints win as the best team in SL this year, so no complaints either way. 

Genuinely happy to see a new final lineup though.

[Just Browny]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'd be surprised if Saints bottle this one after their comprehensive beating by the ref in the Cup.

But I have been really impressed with Salford's hustling defence and that is the kind of quality that forces teams into errors and panic Rugby which Saints are not immune to.

If I had to put money on, it's clearly be on Saints, but I wont be surprised if Salford and the ref stole this one from them.

Obviously I'd love Salford to win and will be cheering them on, but I'll also be ok if Saints win as the best team in SL this year, so no complaints either way. 

Genuinely happy to see a new final lineup though.

I heard Kendall went to see a play at the Lowry last weekend.

[Bleep1673]

Don't bet on Salford at William "Robin B'studs" Hills.....

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/rugby-fans-vow-to-take-william-hill-to-court-after-the-bookmaker-refused-to-pay-out-a-£23400-bet-claiming-that-the-winning-slip-was-the-result-of-human-error/ar-AAIvzWC?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

[Trojan]

On ‎08‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 12:41, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

I suppose it's too late to ask for a 'Haven't a Clue' button. 'cos after the way Salford have been going in the play-offs, I reckon anything's possible!

a bit like Fev really.  If Saints don't bottle it (always a possibility) Salford will run out of steam.

[Trojan]

On ‎08‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 19:39, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Genuinely not an attempt at sarcasm. He’s easily the best, for me. Glad we’re not rewarding mediocrity in Child’s, Hicks or Thaler, though one of those clowns will be the video ref, I suspect. 

Thaler is the best there is. Kendall missed Wilkins's headbut, and penalised Bussey when he should have penalised the tackler on Saturday.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

4 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Thaler is the best there is. Kendall missed Wilkins's headbut, and penalised Bussey when he should have penalised the tackler on Saturday.

Honestly? Thaler’s awful. Makes himself centre of attention. 

[Trojan]

3 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Honestly? Thaler’s awful. Makes himself centre of attention. 

I would say exactly the opposite. He allows the game to flow as much as possible.  I'd agree about HIcks. But it's arguable that Kendall's penalty against Bussey cost Fev the game on Saturday.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

7 minutes ago, Trojan said:

I would say exactly the opposite. He allows the game to flow as much as possible.  I'd agree about HIcks. But it's arguable that Kendall's penalty against Bussey cost Fev the game on Saturday.

As much as possible? He’s as whistle happy as they come. 

[Trojan]

6 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

As much as possible? He’s as whistle happy as they come. 

We had him at York, he let the game flow.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

2 hours ago, Trojan said:

a bit like Fev really.  If Saints don't bottle it (always a possibility) Salford will run out of steam.

I was there at the CC Final... Saints choked for me.... I think it will happen again

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Nerves now. Nineteen announced. Not so au fait with Salford’s side but I felt our bench in the Challenge Cup Final was quite weak and Warrington had better impact players on the bench than we did. 

Would probably go with the same side that beat Wigan the other week with Paulo and Bentley dropping out, though I do really like Bentley and I’m not completely convinced on Aaron Smith. 

 

[fieldofclothofgold]

31 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I was there at the CC Final... Saints choked for me.... I think it will happen again

Saints will be determined not to choke Again and it will be on their minds . It could affect them

[GeordieSaint]

1 hour ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

Saints will be determined not to choke Again and it will be on their minds . It could affect them

People said that against Wigan in the semi finals; then battered them...

But who knows... guess we'll find out on Saturday evening.  

[fieldofclothofgold]

8 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

People said that against Wigan in the semi finals; then battered them...

But who knows... guess we'll find out on Saturday evening.  

Looking forward to it 

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

On 08/10/2019 at 21:28, Chris22 said:

All the attention is on Salford this week and I think that suits us. The media all want to talk about Salford's incredible season, what Ian Watson has done, the fans stories of their first ever final (for some), Jackson Hastings, Josh Jones getting married the day after the Grand Final etc.

This has meant that the questions and scrutiny that we otherwise would have been facing about a shocking final and semi final record hasn't been there. That is fantastic for us.

Great that both sides are almost at full strength too, it will make the occasion better. Listening on TV,  the Salford fans have made such a noise in the last few weeks, the atmosphere will be brilliant.

I firmly believe that if we play to our best (like we did against Wigan) then we will win the game and that will be enough to beat Salford. But if we are even slightly off and Salford play like they did next week then they will win.

The build up has had everything a final should have. I hope we can finish the job and get our just rewards for a brilliant season.

How do you define you being off? You're saying the only way Warrington, sorry Salford can win is if you don't play to your abilities, isn't that somewhat disingenuous? Like the CC final, you played to your best on the day but were simply outplayed, which made you look like you were less than perfect. Even in your dominant matches (playing to your best) you've made errors, that's when you have less pressure on you after a certain point in the match, so your 'best' as you perceive it against better teams is different to playing against teams who are (as proven by the scoreline) easier to beat.Thus against better teams it's not so easy to score/prevent scores even if playing to your best given the opposition.

Too often fans and indeed coaches say they didn't play to their potential and yet that's usually down to the opposition playing better and you not being able to play like you would against lesser opposition, ergo you played your best in the circumstances and the opposition.

I just think not enough credit is given to the opposition when you lose, you'll hear from coaches, they were great and did all the right things, and not taking anything away from them but we didn't play how we could/should, completely failing to understand the consequences/outcomes of when another team plays extremely well and limits your 'best', as I said, your best against one set of opponents doesn't look the same nor has same outcomes against stronger opposition

[hullste]

46 minutes ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

How do you define you being off? You're saying the only way Warrington, sorry Salford can win is if you don't play to your abilities, isn't that somewhat disingenuous? Like the CC final, you played to your best on the day but were simply outplayed, which made you look like you were less than perfect. Even in your dominant matches (playing to your best) you've made errors, that's when you have less pressure on you after a certain point in the match, so your 'best' as you perceive it against better teams is different to playing against teams who are (as proven by the scoreline) easier to beat.Thus against better teams it's not so easy to score/prevent scores even if playing to your best given the opposition.

Too often fans and indeed coaches say they didn't play to their potential and yet that's usually down to the opposition playing better and you not being able to play like you would against lesser opposition, ergo you played your best in the circumstances and the opposition.

I just think not enough credit is given to the opposition when you lose, you'll hear from coaches, they were great and did all the right things, and not taking anything away from them but we didn't play how we could/should, completely failing to understand the consequences/outcomes of when another team plays extremely well and limits your 'best', as I said, your best against one set of opponents doesn't look the same nor has same outcomes against stronger opposition

A team that wins the league by 16 points is clearly the best team in the league so it is totally fair to say that Saint's at their best win. If Salford (just like Warrington) can knock them out of their stride however then it is game on. 

[Chris22]

1 hour ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

How do you define you being off? You're saying the only way Warrington, sorry Salford can win is if you don't play to your abilities, isn't that somewhat disingenuous? 

Being 'off' differs from team to team. For Saints, being off (as you highlight later in your post) is making a lot of errors and as a result losing composure and panicking.

We finished 18 points clear of Salford in the regular season. That is 9 wins better off over the course of a 28 game season. So we won around 30% more matches than Salford.

Given those facts, I do not think it is arrogant to suggest that if we play to the best of our ability that we will win the game. However, given Salford's form and quality, they have the ability to take advantage even if we are slightly off, in my view.

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Like the CC final, you played to your best on the day but were simply outplayed, which made you look like you were less than perfect.

The problems that often haunt us in big games did at Wembley, that being the routine of errors, fall behind, panic. I disagree that we played to our best on the day.

I would argue that was Coote's worst performance for us and Lomax and Roby's worst performance for some time. We played very poorly and deserved to lose. If we play poorly on Saturday, we will certainly lose again.

Warrington's high completion, excellent kicking game and clinical attack made us uncomfortable. Our defeat was down to several different reasons in my view. Salford will no doubt have their own blueprint to win, probably based on their excellent defence.

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Even in your dominant matches (playing to your best) you've made errors, that's when you have less pressure on you after a certain point in the match, so your 'best' as you perceive it against better teams is different to playing against teams who are (as proven by the scoreline) easier to beat.Thus against better teams it's not so easy to score/prevent scores even if playing to your best given the opposition.

In our best performance this year against Wigan two weeks ago, we did not make an error until the 39th minute. For the four weeks beforehand, we made an average of 17 errors per game . I said before the Wigan game if we made that many errors we would lose and believe the same to be true of Saturday.

I agree that Salford will present a huge challenge. The biggest one for us will be how we cope if the game is close for a very long time (a near certainty in my view). 

Against Warrington in June, we handled that brilliantly. We didn't score until the 60th minute but stayed patient and broke them down. At Wembley, we handled it terribly and crumbled. Similar patience may be needed on Saturday. It may prove our biggest test to see if we remain patient.

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Too often fans and indeed coaches say they didn't play to their potential and yet that's usually down to the opposition playing better and you not being able to play like you would against lesser opposition, ergo you played your best in the circumstances and the opposition.

I agree. When you watch a game supporting your own team, you do find yourself focussing on your team's performance rather than the opposition. It's easier to take a more rounded view in a game where you are neutral.

I understand why coaches take that view, because they need to focus on their own team, how to improve them and how they cope better with the challenging circumstances and better opposition.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Just looking at the betting odds for next year. It's surreal to see Salford in the final considering they are 40/1 to win it next year compared to 11/4 now!

[Red Willow]

22 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Just looking at the betting odds for next year. It's surreal to see Salford in the final considering they are 40/1 to win it next year compared to 11/4 now!

Just don't place the bet with William Hill  https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/salford-red-devils-bet-honoured-17055310

 

 

[Old Frightful]

44 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Just looking at the betting odds for next year. It's surreal to see Salford in the final considering they are 40/1 to win it next year compared to 11/4 now!

The odds are hardly comparable.

Next year Salford, minus Hastings and a fair few others, will start the season with a full season of matches plus possible play off games in front of them, like all other SL clubs.

On Saturday, they only have to win one game to be crowned SL Grand Final winners.

What odds are Saints next year?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

15 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

The odds are hardly comparable.

Next year Salford, minus Hastings and a fair few others, will start the season with a full season of matches plus possible play off games in front of them, like all other SL clubs.

On Saturday, they only have to win one game to be crowned SL Grand Final winners.

What odds are Saints next year?

Saints and Wigan are joint favourites at 5/2 (pretty much Salford's odds on Saturday to win just one game).

To compare, newly promoted Toronto have better odds of winning the league. Salford are 8th favourites.

How many players are leaving?

[Segovia Carpet]

Key players

 

Hastings (Pies)

Griffin (Cas)

Jones (Dull)

Tomkins (Unattached)

Bibby (Pies)

Fringe

Olpherts (Cas)

Lawton (Unattached)

Greg Johnson (Unattached)

 

Maybe others

 

Replacements

 

Kevin Brown

Pauli Pauli

Sarginson

Atkin

Greenwood

2 Fev Lads

& more

[Oliver Clothesoff]

1 hour ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Just looking at the betting odds for next year. It's surreal to see Salford in the final considering they are 40/1 to win it next year compared to 11/4 now!

Anyone know what their odds were in January this year?

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

10 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Just looking at the betting odds for next year. It's surreal to see Salford in the final considering they are 40/1 to win it next year compared to 11/4 now!

What are the odds on Salford finishing bottom/been relegated in 2020?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

What are the odds on Salford finishing bottom/been relegated in 2020?

Not seen anywhere that offers it yet.