Super 9s in the UK - what to do with it?

[jim_57]

9 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

We could put on a mostly European international 9’s tournament without NRL players. A strong group of 4 with 2 teams into the semi final and then 2 weaker groups of 4 with 1 team qualifying for the semi final. The beauty of 9’s is teams like Wales and France are able to be competitive. 

England

Ireland

Scotland

Wales

France

Italy

Serbia

Italy

Russia 

Jamaica

USA

Canada

 

I don't mind the idea of "regional" nines every second year and world 9's in between.

Add a 9's in the Southern Hemisphere under the same Super Pool format with:

Aus, NZ, PNG, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Cooks, Lebanon and 4 more from the remainder of the Pacific Islands, Africa and Asia (Vanuatu, Phillipines, Japan, South Africa, Brasil etc)

Top 6-8 from each qualify for the World 9's the year after.

[Blind side johnny]

17 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Well, I'm sure the NRL will provide some good reasons why not?

But, aside from that insurmountable difficulty, I'd love it if that happened. I think it could attract a whole new audience for RL. Maybe have one of the rounds in Toronto at the BMO Field.

But sadly I just don't see it ever happening whilst ever the NRL have any say. They'll insist it is in Sydney, then totally fail to promote it.

Do you really think that the 9's attracts "a whole new audience for RL" or simply an audience for 9's?

Has 20/20 cricket increased attendances at county grounds or test matches?

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Do you really think that the 9's attracts "a whole new audience for RL" or simply an audience for 9's?

Has 20/20 cricket increased attendances at county grounds or test matches?

It's not really my cup of tea , but it is undoubtably an easier firm of the game to play in development terms , much better than 7s union IMO , and in truth as a women's game ( myself and Mr Schofield share an opinion on that ) 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

On 19/10/2019 at 20:03, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

We could put on a mostly European international 9’s tournament without NRL players. A strong group of 4 with 2 teams into the semi final and then 2 weaker groups of 4 with 1 team qualifying for the semi final. The beauty of 9’s is teams like Wales and France are able to be competitive. 

England

Ireland

Scotland

Wales

France

Italy

Serbia

Italy

Russia 

Jamaica

USA

Canada

 

The problem is, without the NRL, the perception automatically will be that it is a B grade competition. It'll be doomed to fail before it even begins.

A genuine World Cup 9s in Cardiff under the roof could be a big hit over here.

[Gerrumonside ref]

18 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

The problem is, without the NRL, the perception automatically will be that it is a B grade competition. It'll be doomed to fail before it even begins.

A genuine World Cup 9s in Cardiff under the roof could be a big hit over here.

Agree with this tbh

[Chris22]

My concern is that hosting an international 9's in the northern hemisphere is that it would have to be during the summer months (an all-day / weekend event in October or November isn't too appealing) and we are notoriously bad at organising events as it is, let alone outside of the normal international season.

The idea of Magic Weekend 9's event is a monstrous risk to a successful event in my view. The suggestion on other threads of 9's events on Bank Holidays seems a good start. Whilst 9's isn't really for me, it presents an opportunity to promote the game to a new audience and I hope we keep at it.

I've written a blog with a few more thoughts, if anyone's interested: https://thetryline.blogspot.com/2019/10/international-wrap-1-time-for-plan-for.html

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

I dont think that's the case. And it's something we should really stay clear of. 

With 9s being so early in its infancy, we could really put our back in to it and in to creating the image of a 9s player. 

We dont need to pretend they are better RL players than the Aussies but we can position them as the best 9s players in the world.

Nobody is going to pretend the fijians have the best RU players but there is no doubt they have amongst the best 7s players.

And if we can put some effort in to creating actual 9s sides then we can advertise a genuine world class 9sncomp without the Aussies.

But without playing against players from the NRL, who made up the best Nations in the 9s, it will not be perceived as a top international competition. We can try package it any way we like, but you won't shake that off the people that know the game.

[Dunbar]

We can do whatever we want with 9's and while the game is not to my liking I can see the value of it in the games development. 

But the single most important thing we need to do to develop our sport is focus on the the 13 a side international game... everything else  comes a distant second. 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

18 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Do you really think that the 9's attracts "a whole new audience for RL" or simply an audience for 9's?

Has 20/20 cricket increased attendances at county grounds or test matches?

I don’t know the answer to your question but does it need to is my question? 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

9 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

The best ru players from the southern hemisphere comps dont play 7s

Very true, I bet Kevin Penny would be a devastating player at 9’s

I don’t think he’s even at a Super League club anymore 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

I’d be gutted if Magic went. I think it could and should be done better than it is. That’s a different topic for a different time. 

As for club level 9s, do we need it? We have a guaranteed 30 games a season for every side, where do we shoehorn this into the calendar? 

As for the comments from Nigel Wood regarding top players not necessarily being involved, the mind boggles at the stupidity from that comment. 

[Blind side johnny]

12 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I don’t know the answer to your question but does it need to is my question? 

And I was responding to a post that said it would - the fundamental difficuty of forums: noticeboards were much better (ask your grandads)

[Gerrumonside ref]

11 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

And I was responding to a post that said it would - the fundamental difficuty of forums: noticeboards were much better (ask your grandads)

As an aside, did you manage to watch any of the World Cup 9s?

Did you enjoy it if you did?

[Blind side johnny]

20 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

As an aside, did you manage to watch any of the World Cup 9s?

Did you enjoy it if you did?

Yes I did watch some of it, but not all. It was mildly entertaining but not my personal cup of tea: a bit like comparing cricket 20/20 with test matches - the field and equipment is the same but the game and strategy is quite different. Maybe if I were 50 years younger it might appeal more.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I’d be gutted if Magic went. I think it could and should be done better than it is. That’s a different topic for a different time. 

As for club level 9s, do we need it? We have a guaranteed 30 games a season for every side, where do we shoehorn this into the calendar? 

As for the comments from Nigel Wood regarding top players not necessarily being involved, the mind boggles at the stupidity from that comment. 

9’s should be for internationals 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

20 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

9’s should be for internationals 

We don’t play enough proper internationals without 9s too. 

[Rupert Prince]

On 18/10/2019 at 13:03, Gerrumonside ref said:

Great action, but not really a great crowd unfortunately.

What would you do with the 9s concept and why?

Bin it

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 minute ago, Rupert Prince said:

Bin it

Did you not enjoy it at the weekend?

[Rupert Prince]

8 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Did you not enjoy it at the weekend?

Did not see it, could not see it. Didn't want to see it.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Just now, Rupert Prince said:

Did not see it, could not see it. Didn't want to see it.

Must admit, I’d never seen a 9s game before until last Friday.

I think there’s something there to be honest as I found myself unexpectedly glued to the action despite previous cynicism.

If you get chance I would try and find some highlights and then make your own mind up.

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

Yes I did watch some of it, but not all. It was mildly entertaining but not my personal cup of tea: a bit like comparing cricket 20/20 with test matches - the field and equipment is the same but the game and strategy is quite different. Maybe if I were 50 years younger it might appeal more.

Fair comments there I think.

To have a brief AOB on the cricket, I do think 20/20 has had an adverse effect on some aspects of batting as it’s clear certain techniques are better for the IPL and monetary considerations for a young batsmen.

Bringing it swiftly back to RL, would you fear a similar situation evolving if 9s proved a popular format with fans (and the crowds aren’t reflecting that yet)?

 

[Rupert Prince]

42 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Must admit, I’d never seen a 9s game before until last Friday.

I think there’s something there to be honest as I found myself unexpectedly glued to the action despite previous cynicism.

If you get chance I would try and find some highlights and then make your own mind up.

All fair comments.  If our league programme would / could fit in a tournament then it might be properly promoted. 

However ...

it would take about 2 weeks for an International tournament, full of teams, to arrive, prepare and play... all for 2 days then go home. Sensible?

Domestic tournament virtually ditto... it would have to take a week out of the season.  How fascinating would a domestic tourney be?  It would just be juniors.  An expensive blip on the season. The season is already too long.

The criticism of our 9s team availability misses out the crowded events that limited our selections... We had first choice players in place who were playing Tests. We also had a Knights squad at home.   9s were bottom of the pile. 

Frankly it is not important and does not make money.

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

24 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

All fair comments.  If our league programme would / could fit in a tournament then it might be properly promoted. 

However ...

it would take about 2 weeks for an International tournament, full of teams, to arrive, prepare and play... all for 2 days then go home. Sensible?

Domestic tournament virtually ditto... it would have to take a week out of the season.  How fascinating would a domestic tourney be?  It would just be juniors.  An expensive blip on the season. The season is already too long.

The criticism of our 9s team availability misses out the crowded events that limited our selections... We had first choice players in place who were playing Tests. We also had a Knights squad at home.   9s were bottom of the pile. 

Frankly it is not important and does not make money.

 

You make some good points I feel, but I’d like to have a go at responding anyway.

I believe the upcoming World Cup in 2021 is the next big opportunity to play an international 9s World Cup in the U.K. although it’s not without issues too surrounding the timing (before or after?)

A domestic 9s in the U.K. would need the credibility and availability of well known players to at least pull in the regulars - probably the reality is broadcasters and sponsors would want this aspect too

I agree the season is too long already so you’d have to make a sacrifice of two SL games possibly, but yes it would have to stack up financially.  There is almost a ‘chicken and egg’ aspect to starting something new like this - do you speculate to accumulate on this or elsewhere, or do you take the safe route and sit tight hoping your other initiatives drive growth.

I do think it could be important as a showcase of the sport, but I would agree with you that at the moment it is not making money or attracting big crowds.  The failure of the latter needs to be analysed and understood - that’s crucial.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rupert Prince]

12 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

You make some good points I feel, but I’d like to have a go at responding anyway.

I believe the upcoming World Cup in 2021 is the next big opportunity to play an international 9s World Cup in the U.K. although it’s not without issues too surrounding the timing (before or after?)

A domestic 9s in the U.K. would need the credibility and availability of well known players to at least pull in the regulars - probably the reality is broadcasters and sponsors would want this aspect too

I agree the season is too long already so you’d have to make a sacrifice of two SL games possibly, but yes it would have to stack up financially.  There is almost a ‘chicken and egg’ aspect to starting something new like this - do you speculate to accumulate on this or elsewhere, or do you take the safe route and sit tight hoping your other initiatives drive growth.

I do think it could be important as a showcase of the sport, but I would agree with you that at the moment it is not making money or attracting big crowds.  The failure of the latter needs to be analysed and understood - that’s crucial.

I do not see how you accumulate, for what purpose does it lead to? 9s is not rugby so why bother with it?  The speculation leads to losses.  For kids, ladies and as training, development it's interesting.

I suppose there may be an analogy for some with 20/20 cricket (?). If so it's misplaced. That game is bast3rdised by it's format and  by it's use of the white ball.  England's Roy, as an example, was great with the white ball, but rubbish with the red. (Roy, btw, is from SA... just to cross-over with another thread!)

To expand, in my own turn...  to be really innovative and maybe profitable (and revolutionary) I suggest a 11s competition. Remove the 13 and a centre. Run it in the Reserves as a start. Use it after that in the CC if it works.  But really various options for the layout of the competition. 60 minutes, 4 quarters. Stop the clock in betwen scrums and ball in touch. Time  to get a quick half in between.

[Rupert Prince]

39 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Pre-season club 9s in Gran Canaria to kick of the season, if possible the same time as the NRL 9s

International 9s during the rep weekend in England mid season

International 9s in south of France the week after the GFs

International 9s in perth two weeks later

International 9s in auckland the week after. 

That gives you a basis for a circuit. It doesnt put additional demands on the same players as they cant play both 9s and other rep rugby at the same time. 

Then as the game grows and more countries want to host, we add more to the circuit. Most other places who would want to host a comp would be able to do so in the NH Autumn/winter SH summer.

"more" countries will want to host...

Like PNG maybe?