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The Greatest ever RL XIII


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16 hours ago, thepimp007 said:

I’m sorry but you are quite a pompous poster. How can someone’s opinion be wrong. It’s an opinion. Think you are the only one who is one eyed. No discussion just your opinions go. Grow up

It's wrong when people call a player the GOAT in one position when the player never played that position just had the number on his back (to fit in the team) nor had the skillset that that position was and still is considered to be essential for that role, you know, ball handling, kicking, tactical prowess, none of which Hanley possessed in the way you would consider a LF should have. it's not pompous when it's putting facts across regarding a player/position and how unsitable that player is for that position, as a killer 2nd row or winger Hanley would definitely be up for consideration to be in a GOAT XIII but absolutely not as a no.13 because he was never a 13 nor had the skillset for a 13. Sean O'Loughlin has been a far superior 13 than Hanley.

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6 minutes ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

nor had the skillset that that position was and still is considered to be essential for that role, you know, ball handling, kicking, tactical prowess, none of which Hanley possessed in the way you would consider a LF should have.

How do you rate Jason Taumalolo's in the skills you mention above... ball handling, kicking?

Also. Why do you keep saying that Hanley had no tactical prowess? I would have thought the fact that he was a successful captain and coach is proof that he was tactically astute.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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3 hours ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

It's wrong when people call a player the GOAT in one position when the player never played that position just had the number on his back (to fit in the team) nor had the skillset that that position was and still is considered to be essential for that role, you know, ball handling, kicking, tactical prowess, none of which Hanley possessed in the way you would consider a LF should have. it's not pompous when it's putting facts across regarding a player/position and how unsitable that player is for that position, as a killer 2nd row or winger Hanley would definitely be up for consideration to be in a GOAT XIII but absolutely not as a no.13 because he was never a 13 nor had the skillset for a 13. Sean O'Loughlin has been a far superior 13 than Hanley.

Ellery only played on the wing on the 1984 Lions tour and it was his 'biggest disappointment' according to a Wigan programme interview in 1985. Coach Frank Myler didn't rate him or Henderson Gill who wasn't selected for the tour.

To the best of my knowledge Ellery never played second row in his professional career. He moved to 13 on 1987.

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5 hours ago, MattSantos said:

Echoed by a lot of good Aussie RL thinkers after his Balmain stint

Terry Lamb certainly saw him as a threat...

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Double post - TRL's playing up this evening.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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9 hours ago, Dunbar said:

On Ellery Hanley.

Yes, he didn't particularly have a passing game.  Yes, he didn't particularly have a kicking game.  I am not sure we could negatively describe his tactical acumen because he was a very good captain and then coach (and I really don't know what is meant by not 'mentally quick' in this context).

So Hanley was not a 'complete player'.  But this misses the point.  What Hanley did do he did better than anybody I have ever seen play the game.  His running threat was unbelievable and his work rate immense.

I selected Hanley at 13 in my best ever team.  I would be happy for people to argue that he was a better 6 or a better centre (I wouldn't say wing as that undervalued him in my opinion).  What I like about Hanley at 13 is he was always involved in the game.  Yes, he was a running 13 rather than a 3rd pivot but what is wrong with that when he is the best runner of the ball we have ever seen.

All I know is that Hanley would be in my all time XIII any day of the week and he is definitely the best British Rugby League player I have seen and probably the best overall Rugby League player I have ever seen.

Plus 30 odd he got how many tries in that season at Leeds from 13?

Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah

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On 19/10/2019 at 14:14, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

Hanley isn't a 13 and when he did play with that number on his jersey he didn't play as a traditional thirteen, he's not a particularly good passer of the ball and tactically not astute, superb athlete and I'd have him as a second row or winger in many a side 

Ah.  The infinite monkey theorem wins out once more. 

Forever in our shadow, forever on your mind.

 

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My top 17 modern day GB players

1. Davies

2. Offiah

3. Newlove 

4. Schofield

5. Makinson

6. Myler

7. Gregory

8. Morley

9. Roby

10. Ward

11. Farrell

12. Ellis

13. Sculthorpe

14. Long

15. Hanley

16. Peacock

17. Platt

 

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Started watching about 88,and I've watched much more British games than anything else, so best British XVII I've seen:

Davies

Robinson 

Connolly 

Schofield

Offiah

Sculthorpe

Gregory 

Platt

Jackson

Peacock

Farrell

Ellis

Hanley

 

Graham

Morley

Burgess

Roby

With apologies to Kevin Ward, Mike Gregory, Andy Goodway, Denis Betts and several others. 

But no apologies to Kevin Sinfield. 

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For heaven's sakes, the greatest rugby league team of all time has to include Andrew Johns, Reg Gasnier, Brian Bevan and Arthur Beetson. There can be no debate about those selections.

I prefer to narrow it down to my life time. Thus the greatest team of the last 75 years picks itself:

 

Billy Slater

Brian Bevan, Mal Meninga, Reg Gasnier, Greg Inglis,

 

Jonathan Thurston

Andrew Johns

 

Johnny Raper,

Ron Coote, Ellery Hanley,

Arthur Beetson, Cameron Smith, Brian McTigue.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The greatest British team of the last 75 years would have to be:

 

Jonathan Davies

Billy Boston, Neil Fox, Gary Schofield, Martin Offiah

 

Roger Milward,

Alex Murphy,

 

Malcolm Reilly,

Dick Huddart, Ellery Hanley,

Brian McTigue, Keiron Cunningham, Cliff Watson.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

For heaven's sakes, the greatest rugby league team of all time has to include Andrew Johns, Reg Gasnier, Brian Bevan and Arthur Beetson. There can be no debate about those selections.

I prefer to narrow it down to my life time. Thus the greatest team of the last 75 years picks itself:

 

Billy Slater

Brian Bevan, Mal Meninga, Reg Gasnier, Greg Inglis,

 

Jonathan Thurston

Andrew Johns

 

Johnny Raper,

Ron Coote, Ellery Hanley,

Arthur Beetson, Cameron Smith, Brian McTigue.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The greatest British team of the last 75 years would have to be:

 

Jonathan Davies

Billy Boston, Neil Fox, Gary Schofield, Martin Offiah

 

Roger Milward,

Alex Murphy,

 

Malcolm Reilly,

Dick Huddart, Ellery Hanley,

Brian McTigue, Keiron Cunningham, Cliff Watson.

 

 

In your opinion and only 2 non Aussie's in your 13 so hardly a fair representation of the last 75 yrs.

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9 hours ago, Davo5 said:

In your opinion and only 2 non Aussie's in your 13 so hardly a fair representation of the last 75 yrs.

But surely the issue is the quality of the players, not their nationality.

Ellery Hanley and Brian McTigue would appear to be the only two Britons who were better than their competing Australians or Kiwis.

Where do you disagree?

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I haven't read through all of the thread but my XIII would be:

1. Tedesco

2. Grothe

3. Meneniga

4. Fox

5. Offiah

6. Lewis

7.Sterling

8.Ward

9. Cooke

10. Beetson

11. Lowe

12. Reilly

13. Hanley

Close, but no cigar: Eadie, VanVollenhoven Kenny, Millward, Hartley, Watson, F.Foster

Obviously if there was contested scrums my hooker would be different and Tedesco and Cooke are in there on pace as well as ability whilst in these sanitized times Hartley, Watson & Foster wouldn't last long on the pitch but would be a nice bench to put a different slant on a game not that you would take any liberties with Ward, Beetson and Reilly?

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8 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

But surely the issue is the quality of the players, not their nationality.

Ellery Hanley and Brian McTigue would appear to be the only two Britons who were better than their competing Australians or Kiwis.

Where do you disagree?

In 1982 there were 3 Great Britain players who were better than their opposite number in the Invincible Kangaroo team

Des Drummond was better than John Ribot or Kerry Bousted

Trevor Skerrett was better than Craig Young

Steve Norton was better than Ray Price

 

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2 hours ago, OMEGA said:

In 1982 there were 3 Great Britain players who were better than their opposite number in the Invincible Kangaroo team

Des Drummond was better than John Ribot or Kerry Bousted

Trevor Skerrett was better than Craig Young

Steve Norton was better than Ray Price

 

The logic of your argument escapes me and probably most other people.

None of the Australians you have cited were among the best 13 of the last 75 years whom I chose. So the fact that it may have been the case (though debatable) that their rival British players were better than those Australians you have mentioned is totally irrelevant to my choice of the top 13 of the last 75 years.

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36 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

The logic of your argument escapes me and probably most other people.

None of the Australians you have cited were among the best 13 of the last 75 years whom I chose. So the fact that it may have been the case (though debatable) that their rival British players were better than those Australians you have mentioned is totally irrelevant to my choice of the top 13 of the last 75 years.

 

You mentioned players who were better than their competing Australian or Kiwi peers, I merely expanded on that.

However, back to your choices then, Ellery Hanley at second row is just ridiculous!

Which of his performances in the second row are you referencing when you rate him as better than a raft of other ‘actual’ world class second rowers?

Positions are so specific that the argument of placing him there because he was so good at stand off or centre is ludicrous in the extreme. His time at loose forward came when he wasn’t at his peak even though he was still great.

 

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24 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

His time at loose forward came when he wasn’t at his peak even though he was still great.

I believe Hanley first played at lock internationally in 1987 when he was 26 years old... and absolutely at his peak.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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