Manxmanc Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, The Parksider said: Are you frit? Name just the Superleague or the old first division quality players produced by London since 1980. Just do your best, it will help you and others realise that as big a city as London is where soccer is king and rugby is established as “Union” there’s been little room for junior player development for RL and few successes in over 40 years. On that basis I don’t see a thriving junior RL game in Toronto ever........ None of this will produce a single pro player and you should know that. For others let me explain..... In Leeds the Rhinos despite being a big club for over a century struggle to compete with Union for kids playing the game. Rugby Union has a near monopoly on kids playing Rugby union in Toronto, and a big network of coaches and facilities. Given TWPhonies appeal to the adult beer crowd I don’t see them ever making any headway against the Rugby Union clubs. They know this hence they don’t bother. It’s easy to list all the Toronto union clubs running junior Union projects, but even they struggle against Canadian sports and certainly soccer where there is a massive take up by Canadian kids. What chance has the foreign sport of RL attracting young quality players? None really. To develop youngsters into professionals Leeds needs to get the game played in schools as much as they can, as I say a lot of schools stick with union. Those who love the game at school have a choice of 30 clubs to play junior RL at outside school, some of the big names are Oulton, Stanningley, Hunslet Parkside, Hunslet Warrios, Milford and Easts. From that player pool Leeds can try to stock an academy and develop the best into professionals, but despite hundreds of kids going through the academy the success rate is very low. It’s been quoted as one or two academy kids per one hundred manage to get through to first team. Even then they may not last like Jordan Lilley and Ash Golding. Look at the way Leeds have to chase Australians and buy other clubs stars all the time. It shows you that the player pool here isn’t enough to stock our SL clubs with English talent, we have to go cap in hand to Australia. It’s just a fact that Canada won’t ever develop a player production system based on youngsters. Which is exactly why they didn’t promise this. They promised to develop players from the grid iron game. So it’s no good being up in arms about junior player development, even Perez knew they cannot do this, from his six year failure at Canada RL. Footnote: Gents, no point in the insults it just makes me even more determined to have a say. Stick to the board rules please. Wow... after all that barrel of laughs,, I don't know what to say... Maybe, what would you like for Christmas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 17 hours ago, The Parksider said: No they are not, they photographed a couple of TWP players with a few toddlers in rugby shirts and put that out as “junior development” it was utterly pathetic. Too late, all the grass roots playing interest has been captured by Canada Rugby Union who have grown Rugby as a sport in Canada whilst RL spent it’s time dying out twice. RL isn’t a sport in Canada it’s a day out at a beer festival. What happened to forget about TWP,you just can't help yourself. Yep grassroots RL in Canada is dead,oh wait a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Now London doesn't produce RL players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Now London doesn't produce RL players! Amazing. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clwydianrange Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 40 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Now London doesn't produce RL players! I’m sure some folk used to argue that London must be kept in super league because of all the players that they develop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReaper Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, The Parksider said: Footnote: Gents, no point in the insults it just makes me even more determined to have a right to a fair say. Stick to the board rules please. Really? From the guidelines: All contributions must be civil and tasteful. No disruptive, offensive or abusive behaviour. Contributions must be constructive and polite, not mean-spirited or contributed with the intention of causing trouble. 18 hours ago, The Parksider said: No they are not, they photographed a couple of TWP players with a few toddlers in rugby shirts and put that out as “junior development” it was utterly pathetic. Mean spirited 18 hours ago, The Parksider said: Nowt phoney about that is there………..some very poor excuses for TWPhonies on what should be a New York thread. Mean spirited 18 hours ago, The Parksider said: Are you frit? Someone will have to translate but assuming that's not nice. 18 hours ago, The Parksider said: Just do your best, it will help you Condescending... 18 hours ago, The Parksider said: For others let me explain..... Condescending 18 hours ago, The Parksider said: And that's just from your last two posts. There's lots else in there that is certainly not tasteful, and some is so laughably and ignorantly presented that you absolutely must be doing it with the intention of causing trouble. In fact, thanks for bringing "the rules" up. I'd call for a mod or admin to warn you about being mean spirited in contradiction of the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 London show players can be developed in new areas with money & effort but it takes a long time. Recent interviews with key Toronto personnel suggest they think too long, so will be they be even assed to try beyond the ‘putting balls in kids’ hands’ photo spin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertAM Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Forgot it folks, ParqueCider doesn't want to see any NA, European RL expansion efforts whether they be fledgling, developing, grabbing a foothold, semi-pro, pro (ie rocking and rolling in front of 10K crowds a la Wolfpack) because RL should only be played in Northern England where it started and it doesn't matter to him if it is thriving or sinking into oblivion because that is its destiny. The alternative scenario is for it to gain a toehold (3 years in) in another commonwealth country and take off on this side of the Atlantic maybe along the wat cementing European RL as a real competitor to the NRL. Somehow it is a perversion that a fan with a fortune is willing to put the money to make it happen and oh maybe along the way inspire like minded individuals to do the same. That's the way the world works. If ParqueCider had been an influencer in prehistoric times we'd still be living in caves and eating raw meat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 It's been a long and bumpy road eveyone I'm looking forward to Ottawa and NY but it never goes smoothly. I'm not going to go into why I think this because that would mean more ammunition for negativism. But one thing that all these three teams will bring is somethings that you can't get at home. Parky has his views and they're welcome and I'd rather he was here than watching another sport. In other words it's all imperfect but it's magic. 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Manxmanc said: Wow... after all that barrel of laughs,, I don't know what to say... Maybe, what would you like for Christmas? TWP shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxmanc Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, TIWIT said: TWP shirt. Fancy clubbing together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fighting irish Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Here's some Irish wisdom. If you want more potatoes, plant more potatoes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omott91 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 hours ago, TheReaper said: Really? From the guidelines: All contributions must be civil and tasteful. No disruptive, offensive or abusive behaviour. Contributions must be constructive and polite, not mean-spirited or contributed with the intention of causing trouble. Mean spirited Mean spirited Someone will have to translate but assuming that's not nice. Condescending... Condescending And that's just from your last two posts. There's lots else in there that is certainly not tasteful, and some is so laughably and ignorantly presented that you absolutely must be doing it with the intention of causing trouble. In fact, thanks for bringing "the rules" up. I'd call for a mod or admin to warn you about being mean spirited in contradiction of the rules. Exactly, you should have seen the response I got a few days ago. I replied in good faith and what I got in return condescending and borderline abuse, saying I couldn't read etc, which is laughable because I wonder how many degrees he has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, fighting irish said: Here's some Irish wisdom. If you want more potatoes, plant more potatoes! Geez, we just go to the store and buy some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 12 hours ago, Manxmanc said: Fancy clubbing together? they're selling them for £10 at the moment.. get his address and i'll send him one myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North but south Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 14 hours ago, The Parksider said: None of that will produce a single pro player and you should know that. For others let me explain..... In Leeds the Rhinos despite being a big club for over a century struggle to compete with Union for kids playing the game. Rugby Union has a near monopoly on kids playing Rugby union in Toronto, and a big network of coaches and facilities. Given TWPhonies appeal to the adult beer crowd I don’t see them ever making any headway against the Rugby Union clubs. They know this hence they don’t bother. It’s easy to list all the Toronto union clubs running junior Union projects, but even they struggle against Canadian sports and certainly soccer where there is a massive take up by Canadian kids. What chance has the foreign sport of RL attracting young quality players? None really. To develop youngsters into professionals Leeds needs to get the game played in schools as much as they can, as I say a lot of schools stick with union. Those who love the game at school have a choice of 30 clubs to play junior RL at outside school, some of the big names are Oulton, Stanningley, Hunslet Parkside, Hunslet Warrios, Milford and Easts. From that player pool Leeds can try to stock an academy and develop the best into professionals, but despite hundreds of kids going through the academy the success rate is very low. It’s been quoted as one or two academy kids per one hundred manage to get through to first team. Even then they may not last like Jordan Lilley and Ash Golding. Look at the way Leeds have to chase Australians and buy other clubs stars all the time. It shows you that the player pool here isn’t enough to stock our SL clubs with English talent, we have to go cap in hand to Australia. It’s just a fact that Canada won’t ever develop a player production system based on youngsters. It's still grassroots growth, whether it produces pros or not. Now take Leeds as your example. How many kids play rugby league in Leeds and the surrounding areas, I'm guessing it's in the thousands, and how many of them will become pros? At best your looking at 1-2%. Now these Canadian grassroots clubs probably won't produce professional players but if they weren't there then they chance of a professional grade player coming from Canada is zero. So I hope we can both agree that neither Canada or USA have a strong grassroot with professional pathways at the moment. So how do you resolve this? USARL have an agreement were they send players to Australia to play and train with Australian teams. The CRL doesn't have these agreements and the distance means Toronto can't really run a reserve grade team so getting these players means growing the community game. Which requires getting kids interested in playing. I would hope that they are starting to target schools, the creation and sponsoring of the high school challenge cup is a good sign of this, and within a few years a good inter school competition within the Toronto area will hopefully be running. As they say from small acorns grow great oak trees and hopefully this is the start of something whether it produces professional grade players or a strong community game it would be a big improvement over what was there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fighting irish Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 8 hours ago, TIWIT said: Geez, we just go to the store and buy some. I've spent half an hour wondering whether i should explain the plant more potatoes line, or just leave it out there. I've always found it comical that rugby league people bemoan the lack of quality players available to super league clubs but don't connect the dots and realise that if you want more at the top end, you have to ensure you're putting more in the system at the bottom end, because players grow up and retire. Of course you can always buy more potatoes at the store, providing someone somewhere is planting them to stock the shelves with. Now no one club in particular has to introduce kids to rugby league but as custodians of the whole game, (the RFL) we should accept the responsibility of ensuring that increasing numbers of children are being introduced to the game each year, or face the perennial dearth of talent we all grumble and worry about these days. The Australians know this. When I was there in the 80's they had over 400 grade 4 coaches (their highest qualification) in Sydney, coaching under 10's. As far as I can see, no-one in the UK except Newcastle, is actually grasping the nettle on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Great, it's become the Parky Show again. He condescends, patronises, insults, trolls and then plays the victim when someone bites. Just ignore him. I don't even read his posts nowadays because it's the same waffle, not backed up by any sort of evidence but presented as fact. He has his followers, who also cannot understand the need to back opinions up with fact and just desperately like the idea of his anti-expansionist views - "Yey, someone who agrees with me!" Seriously, save yourself the time. Don't bite. Don't engage. The threads look a lot better and stick to the point then. He won't ever learn. He hasn't in over 10 years of posting on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, fighting irish said: I've spent half an hour wondering whether i should explain the plant more potatoes line, or just leave it out there. I've always found it comical that rugby league people bemoan the lack of quality players available to super league clubs but don't connect the dots and realise that if you want more at the top end, you have to ensure you're putting more in the system at the bottom end, because players grow up and retire. Of course you can always buy more potatoes at the store, providing someone somewhere is planting them to stock the shelves with. Now no one club in particular has to introduce kids to rugby league but as custodians of the whole game, (the RFL) we should accept the responsibility of ensuring that increasing numbers of children are being introduced to the game each year, or face the perennial dearth of talent we all grumble and worry about these days. The Australians know this. When I was there in the 80's they had over 400 grade 4 coaches (their highest qualification) in Sydney, coaching under 10's. As far as I can see, no-one in the UK except Newcastle, is actually grasping the nettle on this issue. I know what you mean. My remark was partly a flippant throwaway one meant to be funny but there's also truth in it. TWP doesn't care where their potatoes come from - they just buy what they need. It's only when they have reached a sustainable level that they can seriously start investing in growing their own. I would suggest that is when they have been in SL for a few years and there is at least one other NAM team with them. Then they can seriously turn their attention to growing their own potatoes because without a market what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 On 30/10/2019 at 19:56, Man of Kent said: London show players can be developed in new areas with money & effort but it takes a long time. Recent interviews with key Toronto personnel suggest they think too long, so will be they be even assed to try beyond the ‘putting balls in kids’ hands’ photo spin? Everything's a spin with TWPhonies. I Was looking at a list of signings other clubs had made for next year, they had all been busy whilst all TWP were doing was bragging about how they are going to go all out for SBW. That followed all the stuff about playing early games across Europe at exotic venues, but that seemed to have died a death as well. I find New York exciting because they could actually field an all North American side and as small time as the USARL may be having a pro team can only help it get bigger time. Now that is expansion. It would not matter to me if they spent some time building up before being able to compete in the Championship because that's what we expect of up and coming clubs, but as we saw when TWP were chucking what few locals they had aside and chucking the money around they clearly weren't "assed" about growing anything. Their fans were all for that because they just want to win and again were not bothered about real expansion. The guys a $$Billionaire, it goes against the grain for him to try to grow something from nothing when as usual he's the money to just buy it. Once in SL what you got from McDermott was pretty much an admission he'd see no pro players come through the Canadian game and we had to like that or lump it and that's true for now as there was a signed agreement P & R would happen, but come the new TV deal all that is off, and like it or not we revert to exactly what the SL clubs think of TWP as expressed by McManus as an Australians Anglo/Aussie side based in Manchester dressing up in Canadian Jerseys. Polls show nobody is impressed by this bluff and bluster, 12 hours ago, North but south said: It's still grassroots growth, whether it produces pros or not. Now take Leeds as your example. How many kids play rugby league in Leeds and the surrounding areas, I'm guessing it's in the thousands, and how many of them will become pros? At best your looking at 1-2%. Now these Canadian grassroots clubs probably won't produce professional players but if they weren't there then they chance of a professional grade player coming from Canada is zero. So I hope we can both agree that neither Canada or USA have a strong grassroot with professional pathways at the moment. No we can't agree as your not even listening are you?. The "grassroots" is the usual TWP spin that as always replaces any substance. The only properly funded and well staffed and successful Rugby development programmes in Toronto are all under the auspices of the Canadian Rugby Union. We had the nonsense about how it just needed "time" to grow Rugby league in a new area and I was told how London were now churning the players out, but the fact is they are not churning them out - I challenged the poster who said this to give me the list and sure it will contain greats like LMS, Clubb, Dixon, McMeakin and a couple of others, but that's not very many after 40 years is it and they were actually playing RL in London long before London Broncos came along in 1980. They don't play organised RL in Canada so again expect NO players to come through at all. As above Think about it - if the SL clubs take the view they don't like TWP but are stuck with them short term why would TWP bother to plan for and invest in future years employing a well staffed RL development programme when first chance SL get they will boot them out. I called it right two years ago that booting out their home grown players and outspending the Championship by a country mile was not going to go down well despite some people slathering over their long winning run, and claiming them as the future of Rugby league. Those self same people are now chasing me all over a thread that is about New York and is not about TWP. Sorry guys but falling over yourselves to try to discredit me has just ruined what I was hoping to be a real expansion thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReaper Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 17 minutes ago, The Parksider said: LMS, Clubb, Dixon, McMeakin and a couple of others Skill testing question. Is that number bigger or smaller than zero? Work it out with pencil if you need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, The Parksider said: Everything's a spin with TWPhonies. I Was looking at a list of signings other clubs had made for next year, they had all been busy whilst all TWP were doing was bragging about how they are going to go all out for SBW. That followed all the stuff about playing early games across Europe at exotic venues, but that seemed to have died a death as well. I find New York exciting because they could actually field an all North American side and as small time as the USARL may be having a pro team can only help it get bigger time. Now that is expansion. It would not matter to me if they spent some time building up before being able to compete in the Championship because that's what we expect of up and coming clubs, but as we saw when TWP were chucking what few locals they had aside and chucking the money around they clearly weren't "assed" about growing anything. Their fans were all for that because they just want to win and again were not bothered about real expansion. The guys a $$Billionaire, it goes against the grain for him to try to grow something from nothing when as usual he's the money to just buy it. Once in SL what you got from McDermott was pretty much an admission he'd see no pro players come through the Canadian game and we had to like that or lump it and that's true for now as there was a signed agreement P & R would happen, but come the new TV deal all that is off, and like it or not we revert to exactly what the SL clubs think of TWP as expressed by McManus as an Australians Anglo/Aussie side based in Manchester dressing up in Canadian Jerseys. Polls show nobody is impressed by this bluff and bluster, I think some people are starting to see through Toronto’s publicity stunts but for New York where is your evidence for being excited about them fielding Americans? All I’ve read suggests they want to replicate the Toronto model but with an unsuitable stadium that is out of town and too big. Or are you building a straw man to knock down when the time is right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I find it funny how Parky is creating a false New York narrative so he can say in future that they haven't met these made up goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertAM Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I found him...eek...he's closer than we thought....Google it.. The Parksider, a 2-bedroom apartment in N. Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omott91 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 19 minutes ago, Man of Kent said: I think some people are starting to see through Toronto’s publicity stunts Where's your evidence that they are pr stunts? Last time I looked junior development was appearing across Toronto. Anyone who says that those pictures were pr stunts without factual evidence is just trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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