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New York - weeks from approval


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3 hours ago, The Parksider said:

The definition of "Raising the profile of the game" is increasing public awareness of RL. Clearly the idea of a Canadian club has had a number of people with little connection with the game and little interest, sit up and take some notice. 

That's "raising the games profile", but whether that translates into growth in terms of more fans, more players and more TV money is a different matter, which depends on what the public's reaction is. Certainly there aren't more players and never will be as they don't play RL seriously in Canada, there's no prospect of any TV deals either leaving the "fans" issue. 

Additional numbers have come out to see what TWP are all about - I did that and found them to be phonies - but the main problem as per SL bosses is the "no away fans". Like it or not such as TWP will leave the "away" ends at grounds empty and depress attendances. It's no good dragging out the old cliches about "not depending on away fans" customers are customers and it's ridiculous to pretend the away fans are just a bonus, and it's even more ridiculous to ignore the fact home fans often don't bother if London or Celtic Crusaders are the opponents, let alone a Manchester club posing as Canadians. Fans round here would rather Leeds played Cas twice than TWP and so would the clubs treasurer.

Now a real life USA team would probably be quite a draw!!

Are you deliberately misinterpreting "raising the profile"? I think you are as usual bending every fact round to fit a narrative TWP are a fantastic success. YES TWP made people initially come out for a look at them, but all they found were the same old English journeymen's faces - there is no evidence that attendances would climb if the game went Transatlantic, in fact quite the reverse would be the effect. 

The reality is fans here want to see northern clubs play their northern rivals. That's the market, that's the nature of the fans, that's what they like. They'd rather watch Saints.v.Wigan and Warrington twice a season rather than  watch TWP or Ottawa full of English journeymen. Saints takings would be massively down and SKY TV would not be happy either as their TV audiences want traditional "proper" clubs on TV

What you typed there was abject nonsense. TWP can't grow a player pool for themselves by their own admission let alone grow the one here,  and as for attendances they would depress them across the M62. Trust me, English fans want real English teams not phoney Canadian ones........ 

So I take it after citing Canadian RL 5 times and TWP 7 times in one post your earlier call of "Let's Forget TWP This Is A New York Thread" has fallen by the wayside,what a surprise.

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2 hours ago, Omott91 said:

How are they phony? Please detail and enlighten us with your information on this subject that clearly the rest of us do not have.

You will never convince some of these guys that things have to change.

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On 02/11/2019 at 01:30, TheReaper said:

We're back to the away fans argument?

No we are not "back to it" as it has never gone away. We sit in the Carnegie stand at Leeds and when London, Catalans and Crusaders came the western terrace was always sparsely populated. When the M62 clubs come it’s well populated and sometimes packed. Even Salford brought a large following last time. You work it out £20 a ticket x 2,000 fans is how much? No away fans is how much? We end up back at the same arguments because when you lose them you conveniently forget about them, and dismiss them. "for "away fans" read their proper identity - paying customers and welcome guests.      Answer the point man!

On 02/11/2019 at 01:25, Big Picture said:

What I typed was nothing of the kind.  The pool of Canadian basketball players increased precisely because the NBA admitted two Canadian franchises in 1995 which raised basketball's profile in Canada and inspired more Canadian youths to want to play that game, and for no other reason.  Those two franchises raided the player pool in the US to stock their rosters, yet even though only one made a go of it in Canada in time their presence here led to Canadian players joining the pro basketball player pool.

RL being a sport with a declining player pool in the UK, it desperately needs a way to inspire more British youths to want to play RL it it's going to turn that around.  The evidence of the player pool declining clearly indicates that the same old, same old won't cut it any more and something new and different is required to stem the decline and then reverse it.  Other than glamorous teams like Toronto being added to the game's top tier, what else could possibly do that?

What you typed is totally irrelevant Canada or Basketball has nothing whatsoever to do with playing of Rugby League, or Rugby Union or Soccer in the north of England. I live here in the north of England and have played Soccer, League and Union. I ran a works soccer side when there were 12 leagues of 12 clubs now that league doesn’t exist, I played some Union with a friend at clubs with great facilities that generally ran four sides, first, second,  third (for useless players like me) and veterans. Now these clubs struggle to raise two sides. If anything league has held some of it's amateur growth through the improvement of facilities in the 1980's from pub cellars to club houses. Don’t sit in a foreign country 3,000 miles away and cluelessly try to tell me what’s happening here. “Youths” in recent years have found lots of other things to do once they have left school other than playing Football and Rugby.

Again you drag out daily an argument that has no connection at all to reality here.

4 hours ago, frank said:

You will never convince some of these guys that things have to change.

"Some of these guys"?

Do you mean people who can understand that Argyle running up a £10,000,000 business loss is not the "change" we need

That business deficit is set to run into $Millions more next season maybe £15,000,000

So come on Frank, give us something more that a smart one liner?, give us something more than an insult? Tell us how clubs running up $$$Millions of debt and dismissing player development is the way to go.

Come on Frank and anyone else, where should we be by the time the SKY deal is up for renewal?

Should we have Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa and Montreal in Superleague with a collective debt of what £30,000,000 between them? 

Should we have four "Canadian clubs" all camped in hotels around Manchester attending a training ground daily preparing for flying out to Canada to pretend to be Canadian Superleague clubs?

Should these clubs be stocked by relegating the the useless Fartown, Wakefield London and Hull.K.R and dressing their ex-players up as Canadians???

Should we say goodbye to Ken Davey, Michael Carter, David Hughes, Tony Crossland and Neil Hudgell who own and fund these clubs?

Do fans here just accept the change to Transalantic or do they stage sit in's on their clubs pitches?

And then what do we do when SKY say in 2021 we only have a deal for an English League?? Name me the American Broadcaster who will step in? Is it Fox Sports Frank?? do you know??

Because you seem to know a lot ? Come on Franky baby, join in the actual the debate, tell me how the transatlantic league will work and delight the fans and club owners here?? Come on Wellsy and Bob8 debate it with me don't press your ignore buttons and tell others to do the same!!

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1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

Tell us how clubs running up $$$Millions of debt and dismissing player development is the way to go?

First of all the running up of debt is fairly normal in all sports very few turn a profit and many live on credit. No one is dismissing player development on either side of this argument. Putting the two of them together is a talent but an illogical one they are not related except in some people's heads. Starting out any new venture has levels of cost that can only be taken on by people like Argyle. Any other way of doing this has been proven to last about a season on average.

 

1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

- paying customers.      Answer the point man!

I'm glad you chose Leeds as your example well run, successful most of the time and loyal fan base. But while we continue to see away fans as an essential economic way forward when success is seen as the factor that drives crowds up and maintains the level even the Rhinos will remain on the poor side of sport. Having teams that are able to compete with each other season in and season out seems to be the only truly viable model for economic sense because it is the only one that both creates and maintains interest. And only sports that provide an interest level above and beyond what's in their own backyard has so many examples of its success that it is almost unarguable.

 

1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

where should we be by the time the SKY deal is up for renewal?

We should create a competition that is marketable, exciting and sparks the imagination of more than a few northerners. There is no way round this. If you enter the game with the cards you held last time you played you'll lose. So you need something that Sky wants more than at the last negotiations and if we have some NA clubs in addition to our fantastic product on the pitch that may well provide us with enough leverage to negotiate properly.

 

As the old saying goes if the Questions won't come to Oxford, Oxford must go to the Questions!

Have a nice day Parky!

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, The Parksider said:

tell me how the transatlantic league will work and delight the fans and club owners here?

Sorry missed this one on first reading,

It will work because the alternative is more decline first of all. Other than that they will get in a plane and fly to the match and people will turn up. TWP creates interest, has created interest and will continue to do so.

If the fans are not delighted to see a quality side play I have to ask, are we actually talking about TGG fans ?

Club owners are a different kettle of fish Parky and if they can't get their club to market a game that includes top flight players what are they doing then?

The club owners only seem to smile at wins and not always then but I think that unless they get to hold the trophy at Old Trafford or Wembley asking for delight from them is expecting far too much.

The only ones not delighted should be the NRL who will have real competition for players on their books, the players will be delighted because a bidding war will suit them to the ground. Not having a quota for NA teams would establish three teams of quality people would want to pay to see and would up the quality of matches generally and a lot more players from the NRL would improve like BMM amd Lolohea as shown in the Tonga results.

If there are any other questions you think I've missed please let me know!

 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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Why are the anti twp types so caught up in how much Argyle is spending of his own money whilst ignoring the amount that Ken Davey, Michael Carter, David Hughes, Tony Crossland, Neil Hudgell and co are spending to prop up the English clubs. Why aren't you criticising these men as well for their loss making ventures?

Jealousy?

Fear?

This is just another reason why people on this forum who criticise twp for this lack any credibility.

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On 01/11/2019 at 23:27, kev p said:

New York etc do not produce players, so just using the declining numbers from uk. I’m in favour of expansion , but just watering down the players from the uk (& nrl castoffs) wont help. A condition of SL should be to run reserves & academy grades also. Just my opinion

So you think having these teams come in and taking players to run one team is diluting the English game. You’re answer to this is for them to run three teams. 

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3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

some working class socialist ethos of fairness

Nah nothing to do with that and even though I got taken middle class I'm a socialist from a working class background It's just that they don't trust anyone least  of all with their most pecious stuff.

Given  the history of the UK and TGG this is completely understandable but usually misdirected as the political story at the moment will tell you.

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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On 03/11/2019 at 14:12, scotchy1 said:

Its a really odd thing for some people that Michael Carter is hero for spending fans money, David Argyle is a villain for spending his own.  

Mr. Carter's spending  saved one of our most iconic "city" clubs where RL dominates RU & Soccer, which was a great triumph for our game. Mr. Argylle's money has destroyed an important part of the game here which is having a professional club in the Capital of the country in Superleague.

Money can work both ways, it can be used philanthropically to enhance a positive outcome or it can be used in a destructive way. It can be an investment, it can be a negative thing delivering one man's selfish ambition to the detriment of thousands of others.

But you clearly don't understand this, which is probably due to your age and inexperience,  No prob....?

On 03/11/2019 at 09:11, Oxford said:

We should create a competition that is marketable, exciting and sparks the imagination of more than a few northerners.

You need something that Sky wants more than at the last negotiations and if we have some NA clubs in addition to our fantastic product on the pitch that may well provide us with enough leverage to negotiate properly.

150,000 Northener's imaginations are sparked by M62 RL - that's how we got £200 Million from SKY.

If the "more than" is a few thousand Canadian real ale enthusiasts then you can forget any paying NATV deal. Who says so? Well not me but  Mr. Perez who says it will need  six phoney NA clubs in SL to get that deal. Meaning another five English SL clubs to be destroyed.

Are you still with me?? probably not as your in dreamland, anyway......

Your incredibly naive to believe that SKY want any North American clubs. I know you make your arguments up in your head to suit your dreams but this takes the biscuit. SKY make money from selling English Superleague to English Subscribers.  SKY have no market in North America hence TWP will give them their games for nothing.

Neither of you have any business acumen or sense of reality about you? But feel free to post as you wish, it would be preferable if this was in a "dream" thread though?? Care to start one Gents? If you do, I won't destroy your dreams with reality...

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Broncos haven't been destroyed by TWP. In fact they're in a much stronger position than they were at the start of 2018, since they are seen as genuine promotion candidates for next season. If TWP hadn't been about, someone else (FEV) would have been promoted and London relegated. Since they finished last.

Would Rovers up have been seen as destroying Broncos?

If people want franchising, say so. Then define the specific, objective criteria upon which franchises are admitted or rejected. In which case, Mr Carter and his team may struggle. Otherwise, we have P+R, which has always been my preference.

Which is why NY and Ottawa start in L1. Which is how it should be.

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36 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Mr. Carter's spending  saved one of our most iconic "city" clubs where RL dominates RU & Soccer, which was a great triumph for our game. Mr. Argylle's money has destroyed an important part of the game here which is having a professional club in the Capital of the country in Superleague.

Money can work both ways, it can be used philanthropically to enhance a positive outcome or it can be used in a destructive way. It can be an investment, it can be a negative thing delivering one man's selfish ambition to the detriment of thousands of others.

But you clearly don't understand this, which is probably due to your age and inexperience,  No prob....?

150,000 Northener's imaginations are sparked by M62 RL - that's how we got £200 Million from SKY.

If the "more than" is a few thousand Canadian real ale enthusiasts then you can forget any paying NATV deal. Who says so? Well not me but  Mr. Perez who says it will need  six phoney NA clubs in SL to get that deal. Meaning another five English SL clubs to be destroyed.

Are you still with me?? probably not as your in dreamland, anyway......

Your incredibly naive to believe that SKY want any North American clubs. I know you make your arguments up in your head to suit your dreams but this takes the biscuit. SKY make money from selling English Superleague to English Subscribers.  SKY have no market in North America hence TWP will give them their games for nothing.

Neither of you have any business acumen or sense of reality about you? But feel free to post as you wish, it would be preferable if this was in a "dream" thread though?? Care to start one Gents? If you do, I won't destroy your dreams with reality...

What a load of patronizing drivel! You obviously think you're smart enough to run RL or Superleague..so apply for the job

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6 hours ago, The Parksider said:

150,000 Northener's imaginations are sparked by M62 RL - that's how we got £200 Million from SKY.

If the "more than" is a few thousand Canadian real ale enthusiasts then you can forget any paying NATV deal. Who says so? Well not me but  Mr. Perez who says it will need  six phoney NA clubs in SL to get that deal. Meaning another five English SL clubs to be destroyed.

Are you still with me?? probably not as your in dreamland, anyway......

Your incredibly naive to believe that SKY want any North American clubs. I know you make your arguments up in your head to suit your dreams but this takes the biscuit. SKY make money from selling English Superleague to English Subscribers.  SKY have no market in North America hence TWP will give them their games for nothing.

Neither of you have any business acumen or sense of reality about you? But feel free to post as you wish, it would be preferable if this was in a "dream" thread though?? Care to start one Gents? If you do, I won't destroy your dreams with reality...

Morning Parky!

The deal was done because Sky thought several things, certainly much more than you make out.

I'm trying to avoid having a go at you Parky but you do make it difficult with such tortuous logic, and your tendency to insult people and their opposing views to yours. All I said was that having clubs like NY and TWP would make negotiating positions stronger and interest levels would rise accordingly. So you brought up the NA TV deal in answer.

Also more or less everything you say is related to the idea it's not been done so it must be false, untrue and some sort of rip off. Your time frame for achieving things seems microscopic and pays no attention to the long haul, and hard work involved.

In all likelihood if NA had six clubs it would create it's own league and leave SL altogether.

Anyway although you never really answer anything. insult everyone who disagrees and shoot all the other messengers I'm glad you're on board for the ride.

 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Mr. Carter's spending  saved one of our most iconic "city" clubs where RL dominates RU & Soccer, which was a great triumph for our game. Mr. Argylle's money has destroyed an important part of the game here which is having a professional club in the Capital of the country in Superleague.

Money can work both ways, it can be used philanthropically to enhance a positive outcome or it can be used in a destructive way. It can be an investment, it can be a negative thing delivering one man's selfish ambition to the detriment of thousands of others.

But you clearly don't understand this, which is probably due to your age and inexperience,  No prob....?

150,000 Northener's imaginations are sparked by M62 RL - that's how we got £200 Million from SKY.

If the "more than" is a few thousand Canadian real ale enthusiasts then you can forget any paying NATV deal. Who says so? Well not me but  Mr. Perez who says it will need  six phoney NA clubs in SL to get that deal. Meaning another five English SL clubs to be destroyed.

Are you still with me?? probably not as your in dreamland, anyway......

Your incredibly naive to believe that SKY want any North American clubs. I know you make your arguments up in your head to suit your dreams but this takes the biscuit. SKY make money from selling English Superleague to English Subscribers.  SKY have no market in North America hence TWP will give them their games for nothing.

Neither of you have any business acumen or sense of reality about you? But feel free to post as you wish, it would be preferable if this was in a "dream" thread though?? Care to start one Gents? If you do, I won't destroy your dreams with reality...

Your whole stance reminds me of the taxi industry. 

Why should a better business model drive the previous unsuccessful business model into the ground?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite?wprov=sfla1

new rise.jpg

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8 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Mr. Carter's spending  saved one of our most iconic "city" clubs where RL dominates RU & Soccer, which was a great triumph for our game. Mr. Argylle's money has destroyed an important part of the game here which is having a professional club in the Capital of the country in Superleague.

Money can work both ways, it can be used philanthropically to enhance a positive outcome or it can be used in a destructive way. It can be an investment, it can be a negative thing delivering one man's selfish ambition to the detriment of thousands of others.

But you clearly don't understand this, which is probably due to your age and inexperience,  No prob....?

150,000 Northener's imaginations are sparked by M62 RL - that's how we got £200 Million from SKY.

If the "more than" is a few thousand Canadian real ale enthusiasts then you can forget any paying NATV deal. Who says so? Well not me but  Mr. Perez who says it will need  six phoney NA clubs in SL to get that deal. Meaning another five English SL clubs to be destroyed.

Are you still with me?? probably not as your in dreamland, anyway......

Your incredibly naive to believe that SKY want any North American clubs. I know you make your arguments up in your head to suit your dreams but this takes the biscuit. SKY make money from selling English Superleague to English Subscribers.  SKY have no market in North America hence TWP will give them their games for nothing.

Neither of you have any business acumen or sense of reality about you? But feel free to post as you wish, it would be preferable if this was in a "dream" thread though?? Care to start one Gents? If you do, I won't destroy your dreams with reality...

Hmm not one mention of New York,I take it your struggling to take your own advice.

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8 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Mr. Argylle's money has destroyed an important part of the game here which is having a professional club in the Capital of the country in Superleague.

 

I’m confused. I wonder if you can help me out.

Can I ask you a straight question  and I would appreciate a straight answer.

Can you explain how TWP has destroyed London ? I was under the impression that London would have been relegated regardless who was promoted.

If it was Featherstone or Leigh or Toulouse who were promoted, would you consider that it was one of them that destroyed the game in the capital ? And if not, why not ?

 

OK, three straight questions......

 

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11 minutes ago, burnleywelsh said:

I’m confused. I wonder if you can help me out.

Can I ask you a straight question  and I would appreciate a straight answer.

Can you explain how TWP has destroyed London ? I was under the impression that London would have been relegated regardless who was promoted.

If it was Featherstone or Leigh or Toulouse who were promoted, would you consider that it was one of them that destroyed the game in the capital ? And if not, why not ?

 

OK, three straight questions......

 

Get an answer of him,don't be silly but I'm sure it would be.

1. No

2.No

3.Because their not Toronto.

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