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scotchy1

Valencia

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1 hour ago, Yakstorm said:

We're a funny lot us Rugby League fans, we love to create all these 'artificial' barriers or reasons why we feel someone from outside of the 'heartlands' shouldn't be doing something.

I mean, what wrong did this Valencia team really do? They completely underwrote the game, paid for Featherstone to fly across, covered the officials and Salford loan players, took the match to an area with very little Rugby League exposure and attracted a crowd of over 500, and will now prepare to take part in the upcoming Spanish Domestic season.

Did they take money from the RFL or the game which could have been spent elsewhere? No

Are they investing in Spanish Rugby League and continuing to do so after this game? Yes

So what they lost by 88 points, Bradford beat Salford by 80 points back in 2000, don't remember reading anyone saying 'why are they bothering playing League in Salford?' back then. 

If the concern is whether they'll be able to compete in League One IF (and it is a big IF) they were suddenly granted a license for the 2021 season based upon a one off match, well thankfully if said scenario was likely to happen they will have played more games, their players will have developed, and as they have said all along, whilst there will be a significant local element in the team, they will buy players to complement their squad.  They also won't be playing a team as strong as Featherstone or Featherstone A in L1. 

It is far better they play a one-off friendly, realise the gap between where they want to be and where they are, and have 12+ months to address it, than poor old West Wales, which didn't realise until Game One of their first season.  

Well said. Too many people in Rugby League have an attitude of 'why bother?' when it isn't actually them that has to do any of the bothering. Good on Valencia and all involved for giving it a crack.

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25 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Valencia being in L1 next year is a non-starter. No players, no fans and no money.  

1. Why would they have players a year before they start. 
2. how many fans do other teams who’ve played one game have. 
3. how do you know how much money they have?

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2 hours ago, Eddie said:

1. Why would they have players a year before they start. 
2. how many fans do other teams who’ve played one game have. 
3. how do you know how much money they have?

1. What would the point of Valencia being in L1 when they have no fans, no players and no money?

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30 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

1. What would the point of Valencia being in L1 when they have no fans, no players and no money?

Just repeating questions because you don't like the answers?

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1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

Well, what is the point?

You have to start from somewhere? Surprisingly new clubs don't get founded with thousands of fans flocking to the gates before a ball is thrown.

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35 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

1. What would the point of Valencia being in L1 when they have no fans, no players and no money?

The obvious answer would be to attract money, create players, and make something for fans to support.

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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

The obvious answer would be to attract money, create players, and make something for fans to support.

How about they build a Spanish league first, perhaps becoming Spanish champions, building up support and funds before applying?

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24 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

How about they build a Spanish league first, perhaps becoming Spanish champions, building up support and funds before applying?

Yeah, of course. 1 club can build a league.

And then winning a league of amateur players obviously thousands of fans will appear

And then millions will flow in to them

Because amateur and pro sport are exactly the same

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31 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

How about they build a Spanish league first, perhaps becoming Spanish champions, building up support and funds before applying?

that is exactly what they are doing.. apply to join (knowing it is not instant) while competing in the spanish league and having friendlies/exhibition games is it not?

You cant just start a league with one team and if it were as easy as just starting a league then we would all be doing it.

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2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Yeah, of course. 1 club can build a league.

And then winning a league of amateur players obviously thousands of fans will appear

And then millions will flow in to them

Because amateur and pro sport are exactly the same

OK let's do it your way, Scotchio.

Valencia enters League 1.

Hundreds of fans appear for first game.

Get thumped by Keighley.

Crowds start to drop.

Get slaughtered by Workington.

Crowd drops off more.

A closer game with West Wales.

Another thumping by Doncaster.

Crowd drops off more.

A thrashing by Hunslet.

Crowd drops off more.

Etc etc etc.

Then fold.

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Just now, RP London said:

that is exactly what they are doing.. apply to join (knowing it is not instant) while competing in the spanish league and having friendlies/exhibition games is it not?

Thought the plan was League 1 next year?

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3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

OK let's do it your way, Scotchio.

Valencia enters League 1.

Hundreds of fans appear for first game.

Get thumped by Keighley.

Crowds start to drop.

Get slaughtered by Workington.

Crowd drops off more.

A closer game with West Wales.

Another thumping by Doncaster.

Crowd drops off more.

A thrashing by Hunslet.

Crowd drops off more.

Etc etc etc.

Then fold.

or 

get accepted to league 1 with 1-2 years to get everything into place, build momentum etc

secure some funding (enough to sign a few players from the UK)

be competitive in League one and see crowds grow. 

(we can all do the speculate on something not yet known, with no basis of evidence on what situation they re going to be in.)

Edited by RP London
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1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

Thought the plan was League 1 next year?

apply for... doesnt mean they will get nor does it mean the RFL wont say.. maybe the year after.. 

they are still planning to play, as you want, in the intervening period, to build up support.

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Valencia appears to be the worst kind of 'pins in a map' ill thought out pipedream expansion that rugby league has excelled at.

Unless they have a rich backer to bankroll players and travel costs for all, I would forget League 1 and start small in a Spanish league.

Edited by Man of Kent

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Just now, Man of Kent said:

Valencia ap[pears to be the worst kind of 'pins in a map' ill thought out pipedream expansion that rugby league has excelled at.

Unless they have a rich backer to bankroll players and travel costs for all, I would forget League 1 and start small in a Spanish league.

yes, think we've got that... 

I would agree that it would be pins in map if the RFL was spanking money away on it. But if it is someone there making a lot of fuss and making the right noises then whats the harm... if the RFL dont like it they can say no, there is no money wasted here. I'm glad people are interested and see it as something worthwhile being involved in. worst thing would be the RFL saying they would like to expand, with financial help, but with no one interested in taking their money! People asking to join (that is not the same as being accepted) is no bad thing.

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2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Valencia appears to be the worst kind of 'pins in a map' ill thought out pipedream expansion that rugby league has excelled at.

Unless they have a rich backer to bankroll players and travel costs for all, I would forget League 1 and start small in a Spanish league.

If you start a small spanish league, then you end up with a small spanish league. 

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1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

That's more than we have now. Progress.

But less than what Valencia are doing

There is nothing stopping everyone else starting a small spanish league and Valencia doing what they are doing 

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48 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

How about they build a Spanish league first, perhaps becoming Spanish champions, building up support and funds before applying?

I understand where you're coming from. However, in reality, if we followed such a model for establishing any new overseas club, I think we would be waiting a very long time before such a club would appear.

1. What specifically does 'building up' the Spanish league mean? Does it just mean more teams/players? Does it include attracting paying fans? Does it include sending over full time development officers/administrators/coaches? Does it mean Spanish teams/players being exposed to playing UK clubs to gradually raise the playing standard? Over what timescale would this building up take place? What if after say 3 years the 'building up' hadn't progressed as quickly as hoped, or worse - people start to lose interest, or all these 'fans' don't flock to watch the Spanish amateur league?  

2. Exactly who would be this person/company/organisation to finance, promote, & organise this 'building up'? Where would all this finance come from?
Any applicants to fund this along with funding the wages & expenses of development officers/coaching staff/administrators/PR staff, facilities rent & equipment, please form an orderly queue.

The reality is that any individual/organisation will be likely to follow Torontos path whereby the priority would be to initially spend every Euro on setting up/promoting just the club alone & getting it established, initially relying heavily on UK & French players. 

The development of Spanish clubs/players/administrators/coaches and so on is obviously a long term project which will surely be better served by feeding off a (hopefully) successful Valencia club. 

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5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

But less than what Valencia are doing

Knowing what we know about previous expansion attempts, Valencia would likely fold soon after joining League 1, so doing it your way would see no Valencia and no Spanish league. No progress.

 

Edited by Man of Kent
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Just now, Man of Kent said:

Knowing what we know about previous expansion attempts, Valencia would likely fold soon after joining League 1, so doing it your way would see no Valencia and no Spanish league. No progress.

 

Jesus christ that's some tortured logic.

I thought you would be fan, more seats to count

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14 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

But less than what Valencia are doing

There is nothing stopping everyone else starting a small spanish league and Valencia doing what they are doing 

equally if the person running valencia has no real interest in running a small spanish league but does have interest in a league one club you are basically telling him to sod off and not bother you again... which isnt really the best plan.. maybe to accommodate him means that the spanish league is actually easier to set up becuase interest is formed by the league one club making people want to play.. 

expansion happens in all different formats dependent on the conditions in place and the area..  no expansion club is the same no expansion area is the same. with all expansion there is an element of "suck it and see" and also opportunism. 

The RFL have made massive mistakes in the past by passing up on opportunities when they arose, they are starting to be less obstinate and looking at things in the whole now which is much better.. they still may say no though so MoK will then be able to sigh with relief that no one else will spend their own money on a failed dream.. 

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Just now, RP London said:

equally if the person running valencia has no real interest in running a small spanish league but does have interest in a league one club you are basically telling him to sod off and not bother you again... which isnt really the best plan.. maybe to accommodate him means that the spanish league is actually easier to set up becuase interest is formed by the league one club making people want to play.. 

expansion happens in all different formats dependent on the conditions in place and the area..  no expansion club is the same no expansion area is the same. with all expansion there is an element of "suck it and see" and also opportunism. 

The RFL have made massive mistakes in the past by passing up on opportunities when they arose, they are starting to be less obstinate and looking at things in the whole now which is much better.. they still may say no though so MoK will then be able to sigh with relief that no one else will spend their own money on a failed dream.. 

There is a very strange thing in RL where everyone accepts we need money,

As soon as any invests we say 'No, not like that' as if we are in charge of their money. 

Theres funding available for pro sport that just isnt there for amateur sport.

Most investors arent looking to start at a really low level and realise some pay back 50 years down the line. 

 

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