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Valencia

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57 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Knowing what we know about previous expansion attempts, Valencia would likely fold soon after joining League 1, so doing it your way would see no Valencia and no Spanish league. No progress.

 

With friends like this who needs enemies. 

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2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I feel the same about the dreamers 🙂

You thought the same about TWP three years ago, well done with that derision. 

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1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Knowing what we know about previous expansion attempts, Valencia would likely fold soon after joining League 1, so doing it your way would see no Valencia and no Spanish league. No progress.

 

 

What like Hemel.. which came up in the way that "should work" build up in lower leagues before taking the (massive) step up in infrastructure, costs, players... it didnt work... I have huge time for Hemel (played against them a lot) and think they are a great club. They put their heart and soul into it and it just didnt work. 

Coventry are the counter argument to that and worked their way up in a similar way. 

what it shows is that no 2 attempts are the same.

As long as you learn from mistakes then there is no issue in making them

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

You thought the same about TWP three years ago, well done with that derision. 

T'ronna shows how this could  - could - work. If there is Senor/Senora Argylos out there willing to burn his/her money on Valencia it could work. If not (and I haven't seen one), forget it. Stick to Spain.

Edited by Man of Kent

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1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

T'ronna shows how this could  - could - work. If there is Senor Argylos out there willing to throw money Valencia it could work. If not (and I haven't seen one), forget it. Stick to Spain.

They wouldn’t need to invest the same amount as money as David Argyle has. 
 

Do you want Catalans and Toulouse first teams to join Elite 1 as well?

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Just now, Eddie said:

They wouldn’t need to invest the same amount as money as David Argyle has. 
 

Do you want Catalans and Toulouse first teams to join Elite 1 as well?

Catalans and Toulouse have essentially outgrown their domestic league. Here's hoping Valencia do the same.... 

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10 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Catalans and Toulouse have essentially outgrown their domestic league. Here's hoping Valencia do the same.... 

Toulouse haven’t, their crowds are lower than some Elite 1 clubs, they’re just propped up by generous benefactors, the same as Valencia could be. 

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5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Toulouse haven’t, their crowds are lower than some Elite 1 clubs, they’re just propped up by generous benefactors, the same as Valencia could be. 

Is this the same Toulouse who made a Challenge Cup semi-final or another one...?

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6 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Is this the same Toulouse who made a Challenge Cup semi-final or another one...?

The same one, who struggled to get 1,000 fans through the door for their two home play off games this season. A few Elite 1 teams get bigger crowds than that. 

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1 minute ago, Eddie said:

The same one, who struggled to get 1,000 fans through the door for their two home play off games this season. A few Elite 1 teams get bigger crowds than that. 

I fancy they'll do better at Stade Toulousain (especially when in Super League, which will eventually happen).

Anyway, back to Valencia.....it'll only work with a rich backer. Agreed?

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2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I fancy they'll do better at Stade Toulousain (especially when in Super League, which will eventually happen).

Anyway, back to Valencia.....it'll only work with a rich backer. Agreed?

with some money yes.. it doesnt need to be a rich backer.. they only need enough to get going in league 1.. super league in 5 years will not be the aim of all these clubs as it was Toronto.. 

has it been announced who is funding this or are they wanting to stay anonymous?

Edited by RP London

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3 minutes ago, RP London said:

with some money yes.. it doesnt need to be a rich backer.. they only need enough to get going in league 1.. super league in 5 years will not be the aim of all these clubs as it was Toronto.. 

has it been announced who is funding this or are they wanting to stay anonymous?

But if the aim isn't 'superleague in 5 years' (or preferably 3) then what is it? And how does that become sustainable for an overseas team? In my view it doesn't, given L1 is barely sustainable for heartland clubs running on  a shoestring. 

For overseas expansion clubs, the aim has to be a fully pro team playing in, or close to, the top division. A part time, local players model just doesn't work for an international team. Toronto is working, but we have to learn the right lessons. 

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22 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

But if the aim isn't 'superleague in 5 years' (or preferably 3) then what is it? And how does that become sustainable for an overseas team? In my view it doesn't, given L1 is barely sustainable for heartland clubs running on  a shoestring. 

For overseas expansion clubs, the aim has to be a fully pro team playing in, or close to, the top division. A part time, local players model just doesn't work for an international team. Toronto is working, but we have to learn the right lessons. 

agree about learning the right lessons. I think down the line if some of the other teams that have been mentioned start to materialise then the Championship is going to be ok for this sort of thing, or a general expansion of the super league at which point you may not need to buy your way to the top as such (overspend compared to income as toronto are doing... spend way and above the league you are in) but you may find you are "placed" there. The key is getting on the first rung.. with an aim of championship in 2 years which doesnt necessarily take oodles of cash. Then push from there.

(although a few more expansion teams in league 1 and maybe it will be more viable as its not just small heartland clubs playing against each other)

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6 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

OK let's do it your way, Scotchio.

Valencia enters League 1.

Hundreds of fans appear for first game.

Get thumped by Keighley.

Crowds start to drop.

Get slaughtered by Workington.

Crowd drops off more.

A closer game with West Wales.

Another thumping by Doncaster.

Crowd drops off more.

A thrashing by Hunslet.

Crowd drops off more.

Etc etc etc.

Then fold.

Didn’t this happen with Kent Nottingham Scarborough Gloucester Oxford Hemel. I could go on. The list is endless. 

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sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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10 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Didn’t this happen with Kent Nottingham Scarborough Gloucester Oxford Hemel. I could go on. The list is endless. 

So basically you’re saying nobody should ever try to set up a new club?

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No not at all. But their has to be an appetite for the game. I know you have to start somewhere but we’ve been experimenting for years to grow the game. We should face facts and accept that we are by and large a northern game a bit like baseball in America and and Canada 


sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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23 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Didn’t this happen with Kent Nottingham Scarborough Gloucester Oxford Hemel. I could go on. The list is endless. 

Quite. For every Toronto there’s 10 Paris Saint-Germains. 
Needs money to succeed. Lots of it.

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10 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

But if the aim isn't 'superleague in 5 years' (or preferably 3) then what is it? And how does that become sustainable for an overseas team? In my view it doesn't, given L1 is barely sustainable for heartland clubs running on  a shoestring. 

For overseas expansion clubs, the aim has to be a fully pro team playing in, or close to, the top division. A part time, local players model just doesn't work for an international team. Toronto is working, but we have to learn the right lessons. 

I question Toronto is working. Money men with big plans.

Valencia, no money men and small plans.

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25 minutes ago, SL17 said:

I question Toronto is working. Money men with big plans.

Valencia, no money men and small plans.

Agreed, Toronto is reliant on an individual benefactor. The apparent plan is that he will invest enough money, for a long enough period, that eventually it can grow commercially to sustain itself. This is very much an ongoing experiment, but one that has least brought a new market of fans to the game.

Edited by ojx
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6 hours ago, DEANO said:

No not at all. But their has to be an appetite for the game. I know you have to start somewhere but we’ve been experimenting for years to grow the game. We should face facts and accept that we are by and large a northern game a bit like baseball in America and and Canada 

So have all baseball teams in the southern United States failed too then? Strange analogy. 

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4 hours ago, SL17 said:

I question Toronto is working. Money men with big plans.

Beats having having half a dozen clubs living hand to month, just hoping to see out the year.

The more clubs with big money investing in Rugby league the better, agree?  

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5 hours ago, Eddie said:

So have all baseball teams in the southern United States failed too then? Strange analogy. 

No but they wouldn’t start a club in Hemel 


sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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8 minutes ago, DEANO said:

No but they wouldn’t start a club in Hemel 

What about getting kids playing, and adults for that matter, or is it all about professionalism to you? Hemel are still playing, and have youth teams, so even though they’ve dropped down a division it’s still a success as far as Rugby League is concerned. Good for the people who’ve done it, much better than sitting on your phone deriding them. 

Edited by Eddie
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6 hours ago, SL17 said:

I question Toronto is working. Money men with big plans.

Valencia, no money men and small plans.

On the same basis you could question if Leigh are working.

Its the same for many clubs

 

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