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The Daddy

Manchester Lions - A wasted opportunity

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I'm still gutted and just cannot believe how abruptly this initiative ended. RL really needs to get into the big northern powerhouse cities on its doorstep to tap into larger markets and address the balance between small towns and big cities in the Championship and Super League. Manchester Lions would've been a step in the right direction and would've given Swinton Lions the chance to progress under a re-branded club.

One day I was listening to the Full Eighty Minutes podcast and Andy Mazey was explaining how the new club would work and then the next day he threw the towel in. A Manchester club would've been a big lift to the sport over here but in my book this whole saga was handled really poorly, if I was the RFL I would do everything possible to get Manchester Rangers admitted to the league structure.

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With so called ''fans'' making threats to him and his family its no wonder, he jacked it in.

These people are the sporting equivalent of dog sh...t on your shoe.

We need to scrape them off the soles of our game before the stench of them puts any more decent people off. 

Edited by fighting irish
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I heard someone from Mcr Rangers on a podcast recently and what they are doing is great, getting the game into schools and getting kids playing in a new area where they otherwise wouldn’t be - exactly what the game needs, so why the RFL turned them down is anyone’s guess, it’s not like the lower reaches of L1 are a high quality competition. 

The Swinton issue I’m unsure about, the abuse Mazey got is despicable and no wonder he jacked it in but regarding the name change the fans who have supported them for decades should be consulted and their opinion is more valid than those of us watching from the sidelines (though I thought it was a good idea after listening to him and seeing the new badge). 

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4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I heard someone from Mcr Rangers on a podcast recently and what they are doing is great, getting the game into schools and getting kids playing in a new area where they otherwise wouldn’t be - exactly what the game needs, so why the RFL turned them down is anyone’s guess, it’s not like the lower reaches of L1 are a high quality competition. 

The Swinton issue I’m unsure about, the abuse Mazey got is despicable and no wonder he jacked it in but regarding the name change the fans who have supported them for decades should be consulted and their opinion is more valid than those of us watching from the sidelines (though I thought it was a good idea after listening to him and seeing the new badge). 

I'm hearing the reason is because Manchester Rangers were asked to pay a £500,000 bond and refused. 

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This venture would only succeed if the Swinton fans were behind it, they weren't. It was always a long shot as without serious capital a name change only gets you so far, look at the London example. Manchester is a difficult nut to crack, Belle Vue Rangers never took off and Manchester is only rivalled by Liverpool as soccer mad city. Look at the efforts that have been put in by Koukash to get Salford on the radar in Manchester, largely a flop. I would love to see RL take off in Manchester but there are only two  routes,

1) a ground up approach where the game is established in the schools and builds organically. This will take time and significant resources

2) a megabucks outfit that does a Toronto and buys it's way to fame and fortune. (nb even Man City struggle to attract full houses even with all their largess. 

As a Salfordian I do hope Swinton survive, and they only way for them to flourish is to get a ground in Swinton and build from there.

 

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13 minutes ago, Quinskolar said:

This venture would only succeed if the Swinton fans were behind it, they weren't. It was always a long shot as without serious capital a name change only gets you so far, look at the London example. Manchester is a difficult nut to crack, Belle Vue Rangers never took off and Manchester is only rivalled by Liverpool as soccer mad city. Look at the efforts that have been put in by Koukash to get Salford on the radar in Manchester, largely a flop. I would love to see RL take off in Manchester but there are only two  routes,

1) a ground up approach where the game is established in the schools and builds organically. This will take time and significant resources

2) a megabucks outfit that does a Toronto and buys it's way to fame and fortune. (nb even Man City struggle to attract full houses even with all their largess. 

As a Salfordian I do hope Swinton survive, and they only way for them to flourish is to get a ground in Swinton and build from there.

 

There were only 500 there on a good day. If Manchester Lions started getting crowds of 3k in the Championship then over 80% of those would be new fans. 

The abuse in the first instance is terrible. But Swinton cannot continue as a nomad team holding onto the past.

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2 hours ago, Scubby said:

There were only 500 there on a good day. If Manchester Lions started getting crowds of 3k in the Championship then over 80% of those would be new fans. 

The abuse in the first instance is terrible. But Swinton cannot continue as a nomad team holding onto the past.

Why would they get 3,000 in the championship though, Salford barely get that in SL and are a well run, established and historic club. 

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Must admit I was sceptical whether merely changing from Swinton to Manchester would’ve had them flocking to Sale but there’s so little to lose they should have given it a shot.

It’s not like they were being moved away.

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29 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Why would they get 3,000 in the championship though, Salford barely get that in SL and are a well run, established and historic club. 

That's like saying why would York get 6000 in SL when they were only getting 500 3-4 years ago. Manchester is a massive population and no club has ever tried to use the city name and market it properly. Salford suddenly found 10,000 people to visit Old Trafford. Where did they come from?

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45 minutes ago, Scubby said:

That's like saying why would York get 6000 in SL when they were only getting 500 3-4 years ago. Manchester is a massive population and no club has ever tried to use the city name and market it properly. Salford suddenly found 10,000 people to visit Old Trafford. Where did they come from?

Salford, people like going to finals (eg where did the 70,000+ who went to the FA Trophy final between Grimsby and Bristol Rovers come from). 

How would you market it properly, over what SL clubs currently do?

And I would say why would York get 6,000 in SL, I don’t think they would. 

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5 hours ago, The Daddy said:

I'm still gutted and just cannot believe how abruptly this initiative ended. RL really needs to get into the big northern powerhouse cities on its doorstep to tap into larger markets and address the balance between small towns and big cities in the Championship and Super League. Manchester Lions would've been a step in the right direction and would've given Swinton Lions the chance to progress under a re-branded club.

One day I was listening to the Full Eighty Minutes podcast and Andy Mazey was explaining how the new club would work and then the next day he threw the towel in. A Manchester club would've been a big lift to the sport over here but in my book this whole saga was handled really poorly, if I was the RFL I would do everything possible to get Manchester Rangers admitted to the league structure.

You don't live in Manchester or Swinton do you?

 

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A change of name alone would not have made a difference. If the club was ran in the same way, they would have achieved the same results irrespective of whether they were called Swinton or Manchester.

Given the struggles Swinton have had over the years though, I suspect that trying to make positive change would not have been any worse than treading water.


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13 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

A change of name alone would not have made a difference. If the club was ran in the same way, they would have achieved the same results irrespective of whether they were called Swinton or Manchester.

Given the struggles Swinton have had over the years though, I suspect that trying to make positive change would not have been any worse than treading water.

You have to start somewhere , One sure Andy would have had a plan , not saying it would have created a big club , but ultimately only by doing something different to what they have done since leaving the Swinton area are they ever going to build as a club IMO

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On 31/10/2019 at 04:04, Celtic Roosters said:

You don't live in Manchester or Swinton do you?

 

Which is why we need to get Rugby League played in a lot more schools in Manchester than we do now and build from there. It would obviously take time to see the results of that, but we would given time. 

There is no such thing as overnight success unless you have a mega rich owner and even then you need to build a large junior playing base.

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If the game really wants to expand with new teams give Eric Perez a budget and a team of people to do it.

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3 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Which is why we need to get Rugby League played in a lot more schools in Manchester than we do now and build from there. It would obviously take time to see the results of that, but we would given time. 

There is no such thing as overnight success unless you have a mega rich owner and even then you need to build a large junior playing base.

That’s what Manchester Rangers are doing. 

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3 hours ago, Cdd said:

If the game really wants to expand with new teams give Eric Perez a budget and a team of people to do it.

Where does the money come from? perhaps all the Super Greed clubs will throw in a few quid each?

8 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

You have to start somewhere , One sure Andy would have had a plan , not saying it would have created a big club , but ultimately only by doing something different to what they have done since leaving the Swinton area are they ever going to build as a club IMO

They did start somewhere - it was Swinton over 100 years ago. You won't build a club by changing the name and losing half of the few supporters that you already have. Manchester Rangers was run by good people. They should have got more help from the RFL but the RFL are only interested in people with money to burn. There is not the appetite for RL in Manchester. You would have to create interest through the schools but it would be years before that came to fruition.

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10 minutes ago, Celtic Roosters said:

Where does the money come from? perhaps all the Super Greed clubs will throw in a few quid each?

They did start somewhere - it was Swinton over 100 years ago. You won't build a club by changing the name and losing half of the few supporters that you already have. Manchester Rangers was run by good people. They should have got more help from the RFL but the RFL are only interested in people with money to burn. There is not the appetite for RL in Manchester. You would have to create interest through the schools but it would be years before that came to fruition.

I don't know anything about Manchester Rangers so won't comment about them , I do know Andy Masey and have spoken with previous owners of Swinton and some of their fans , and fully appreciate the situation they are in , IMO they are down a cul de sac at the moment , and will require a major turn round if they are to survive 

Getting RL played in school is very difficult 

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13 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Would purely a change of name to Manchester really bring in the crowds ?

Has having had a big city name brought in big attendances for London or Sheffield and did it do so for Nottingham, Carlisle or Cardiff ?

Nobody has suggested it would 

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47 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I don't know anything about Manchester Rangers so won't comment about them , I do know Andy Masey and have spoken with previous owners of Swinton and some of their fans , and fully appreciate the situation they are in , IMO they are down a cul de sac at the moment , and will require a major turn round if they are to survive 

Getting RL played in school is very difficult 

It is difficult undoubtedly, but Manchester Rangers and Newcastle Thunder are doing it successfully. Obv I’m not a super league chairman but if I was I’d like to think I’d be supporting them, growing the player pool can only be good for the professional game here, especially if the NRL and possibly future NA teams keep pinching our players. 

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1 minute ago, Eddie said:

It is difficult undoubtedly, but Manchester Rangers and Newcastle Thunder are doing it successfully. Obv I’m not a super league chairman but if I was I’d like to think I’d be supporting them, growing the player pool can only be good for the professional game here, especially if the NRL and possibly future NA teams keep pinching our players. 

Again , not personally familiar with what's happening in the North East , but the reports are looking good , and yes any grass roots is vitally important , be that in new areas or in existing heartlands 

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