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Manchester Lions - A wasted opportunity

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8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Your problem is that no single thing, in isolation, will guarantee larger crowds.

It's always been a package that is needed and unless we address things in their totality we will constantly just say, well thing x, in isolation and on it's owndoesnt guarantee larger crowds. 

Why is it MY problem ?

My original post was just in answer to a previous one which had mentioned nothing else except rebranding

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3 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Why is it MY problem ?

My original post was just in answer to a previous one which had mentioned nothing else except rebranding

It's the problem with the point you are making. It's the same for everything so it's a bit redundant. 

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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

It's the problem with the point you are making. It's the same for everything so it's a bit redundant. 

So someone posts a comment which mentions nothing else except rebranding Swinton as Manchester and I then say that purely changing the name would not guarantee larger crowds. What's wrong with that answer to what was posted ?

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7 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

So someone posts a comment which mentions nothing else except rebranding Swinton as Manchester and I then say that purely changing the name would not guarantee larger crowds. What's wrong with that answer to what was posted ?

Because you're still putting an answer to something someone posted back on Wednesday, and we have now gone 3 pages deep into the thread and all you've done is argue about the same point to the people that haven't even mentioned that point?

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7 minutes ago, Click said:

Because you're still putting an answer to something someone posted back on Wednesday, and we have now gone 3 pages deep into the thread and all you've done is argue about the same point to the people that haven't even mentioned that point

I answered it once. It is others that continue to post about it and to which I then reply ... as per this reply.

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I can see why you’d be angry and upset if you were a Swinton fan of a certain age, however, it’s not far off 30 years since they’ve played in Swinton, so there’s a generation of people who’ve never known Swinton in Swinton. The move to “Manchester” does seem very final for Swinton returning to Swinton. 

Maybe the club officials wanted to attract a younger audience and felt a re-brand was the way to go. 

I don’t think either the club or the “fans” (e.g the ones who’ve made threats specifically) are right here. The club apparently failed to consult the fans, which if true, is wrong and the fans shouldn’t have ever made the threats they did. 

 

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8 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

So someone posts a comment which mentions nothing else except rebranding Swinton as Manchester and I then say that purely changing the name would not guarantee larger crowds. What's wrong with that answer to what was posted ?

In an attempt to move past this...

Do you accept that it's implied as part of something bigger, rather than just a name change in isolation? If so, do you think it could work?

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Swinton Lions represent Swinton. They don't play in Swinton and haven't for a long time, but Swinton is obviously central to their identity as a rugby league club. Because of the economics of professional sport nowadays, that might necessarily, if fact certainly will, mean they can't ever be one of the biggest clubs. But there's no disgrace in that. Not every sports club has to have ambitions to be the biggest and best, and if retaining the Swinton name, for good or ill, is of critical importance to the club's supporter base then that's their decision to make and has to be respected. Sports clubs should exist for the benefit of their supporters, and it would be a sad state of affairs if the supporters' wishes aren't first and foremost in any strategic planning.

The opportunity to establish a rugby league club in Manchester, something which we desperately need to do, was Manchester Rangers. The people involved there did many good things and the club's potential should've been supported and nurtured by the powers that be. In there's any short-sightedness in this whole chain of events it's not from the Swinton Lions supporters, it's from the RFL and their failure to embrace Manchester Rangers to the fullest extent.

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59 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

In an attempt to move past this...

Do you accept that it's implied as part of something bigger, rather than just a name change in isolation? If so, do you think it could work?

To the second part - yes.

To the first part - no, unless you can point to the wording in the first post of this thread which implies that.

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32 minutes ago, Bolton Leyther said:

Swinton Lions represent Swinton. They don't play in Swinton and haven't for a long time, but Swinton is obviously central to their identity as a rugby league club. Because of the economics of professional sport nowadays, that might necessarily, if fact certainly will, mean they can't ever be one of the biggest clubs. But there's no disgrace in that. Not every sports club has to have ambitions to be the biggest and best, and if retaining the Swinton name, for good or ill, is of critical importance to the club's supporter base then that's their decision to make and has to be respected. Sports clubs should exist for the benefit of their supporters, and it would be a sad state of affairs if the supporters' wishes aren't first and foremost in any strategic planning.

The opportunity to establish a rugby league club in Manchester, something which we desperately need to do, was Manchester Rangers. The people involved there did many good things and the club's potential should've been supported and nurtured by the powers that be. In there's any short-sightedness in this whole chain of events it's not from the Swinton Lions supporters, it's from the RFL and their failure to embrace Manchester Rangers to the fullest extent.

Desperately need to do is some exaggeration. 

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Oh at least let the season start before we go over all this bull again. Who started this thread, Boris Johnson to deflect away from the election?

Stupid Idiots.

 

I wish to announce to Donald Trump that the new leader of Islamic State is The Daddy, and should be hit with a missile straight away before anymore morons follow this Ikea of an "Idea"

Edited by Bleep1673

Sex and Money are like Oxygen

They're not important until you're not getting enough.

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29 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

To the second part - yes.

To the first part - no, unless you can point to the wording in the first post of this thread which implies that.

Inference doesn't have direct wording. It's been discussed that many times on that many threads, it's generally implied to be part of a bigger package.

We could just ask him if it's what he implied? @The Daddy, did you imply that the name change was all that was needed? Or was it one part of a bigger package?

Then it can be settled.


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1 hour ago, Bolton Leyther said:

Swinton Lions represent Swinton. They don't play in Swinton and haven't for a long time, but Swinton is obviously central to their identity as a rugby league club. Because of the economics of professional sport nowadays, that might necessarily, if fact certainly will, mean they can't ever be one of the biggest clubs. But there's no disgrace in that. Not every sports club has to have ambitions to be the biggest and best, and if retaining the Swinton name, for good or ill, is of critical importance to the club's supporter base then that's their decision to make and has to be respected. Sports clubs should exist for the benefit of their supporters, and it would be a sad state of affairs if the supporters' wishes aren't first and foremost in any strategic planning.

The opportunity to establish a rugby league club in Manchester, something which we desperately need to do, was Manchester Rangers. The people involved there did many good things and the club's potential should've been supported and nurtured by the powers that be. In there's any short-sightedness in this whole chain of events it's not from the Swinton Lions supporters, it's from the RFL and their failure to embrace Manchester Rangers to the fullest extent.

But wasn't it because of clubs like Swinton that clubs like Manchester Rangers couldn't get the green light to join the league? It's ok not having ambitions to be at the top, but if your presence prevents those that do have those ambitions from having a shot, that's where I find an issue.

Apologies if I'm completely wrong on that one, but I'm sure there were votes and issues from other clubs in the region.

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Here's a new one, why not relocate London Broncos to New York? Or Vancouver? Or Pitcairn?


Sex and Money are like Oxygen

They're not important until you're not getting enough.

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19 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Inference doesn't have direct wording. It's been discussed that many times on that many threads, it's generally implied to be part of a bigger package.

We could just ask him if it's what he implied? @The Daddy, did you imply that the name change was all that was needed? Or was it one part of a bigger package?

Then it can be settled.

In answer to your question no, I was not suggesting that all that was needed was a name change for the club to be successful most people with an ounce of intelligence knows that there are many aspects to a successful club than a name. Andy Mazey did outline some of his plans in the Full Eighty Minutes podcast, one of which was to tap into some of the forthcoming interest generated by the 2021 World Cup. He also stated that he wanted to model the club on some of the initiatives Newcastle Thunder had put in place and identified South and East Manchester as target areas of development and support base. The opportunity was more than just a name change. 

Edited by The Daddy
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41 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

Here's a new one, why not relocate London Broncos to New York? Or Vancouver? Or Pitcairn?

What's new about it? People have randomly suggested relocating too unusual places (in RL terms) for years for no apparent reason.


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11 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Inference doesn't have direct wording. It's been discussed that many times on that many threads, it's generally implied to be part of a bigger package.

We could just ask him if it's what he implied? @The Daddy, did you imply that the name change was all that was needed? Or was it one part of a bigger package?

Then it can be settled.

I commented on what was written. I haven't the ability to know what else might have been meant when it is not actually written. If something else was meant then why not write it ? Also, if you are having to ask if something else was meant then it can't also have been totally clear to you otherwise you wouldn't need to ask.

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46 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

I commented on what was written. I haven't the ability to know what else might have been meant when it is not actually written. If something else was meant then why not write it ? Also, if you are having to ask if something else was meant then it can't also have been totally clear to you otherwise you wouldn't need to ask.

Inference skills require "reading between the lines." Comprehension. These are basic reading skills that are taught from a young primary school age. Not everything needs to be spelt out. We'd be here all day if we had to write every meaning out and every specific detail.

If it wasn't clear enough for you (despite it being clear enough for most other people), it has now been confirmed and cleared up.

Now can we please just move on?

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2 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Inference skills require "reading between the lines." Comprehension. These are basic reading skills that are taught from a young primary school age. Not everything needs to be spelt out. We'd be here all day if we had to write every meaning out and every specific detail.

If it wasn't clear enough for you (despite it being clear enough for most other people), it has now been confirmed and cleared up.

Now can we please just move on?

So I will follow your example and "read between the lines" of your comment above ... and take it that you inferred that I do not have basic reading skills.

If that is so then yet again why is it you can't have a conversation without insulting someone ?

I also note you didn't answer why YOU thought it necessary to ask for clarification of the original post.

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IIRC the Swinton board said they would publish (or at least communicate to the 'fans') the results of their market research on the opportunities provided by the proposed name change but never actually got round to doing so.......

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19 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

So I will follow your example and "read between the lines" of your comment above ... and take it that you inferred that I do not have basic reading skills.

If that is so then yet again why is it you can't have a conversation without insulting someone ?

I also note you didn't answer why YOU thought it necessary to ask for clarification of the original post.

If me pointing out that you were not comprehending or inferring 'insults' you, that's your problem, not mine. Facts don't care about your feelings. You yourself said, "I haven't the ability to know what else might have been meant when it is not actually written. If something else was meant then why not write it ?" That's a basic reading skill that you've just said you don't have, but me pointing that fact out has insulted you (and it is a fact, because what you have described is inference, which is a basic reading skill).

I asked for clarification for you, not for me. I knew the answer, it didn't need clarifying for me. It was so you could see what was clearly inferred rather than take my word for it. Evidence-based answers and that.

Don't go down the victim route, please.

Right, it's been clarified what was implied. The inference was clear. You didn't get that, fair enough. It was clarified for you. He wasn't saying a name change in its own is what was needed. You yourself have agreed that as part of a bigger package it could work. 

Let's move on.

 


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19 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

IIRC the Swinton board said they would publish (or at least communicate to the 'fans') the results of their market research on the opportunities provided by the proposed name change but never actually got round to doing so.......

Was this says to be happening before or after the proposed name change?

If after, then it's not hard to realise why this never happened given the events that quickly unfolded.

If before, then it would need clarifying how it was intended to be communicated. Was it a supporters group? Public announcement?


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3 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

If me pointing out that you were not comprehending or inferring 'insults' you, that's your problem, not mine. Facts don't care about your feelings. You yourself said, "I haven't the ability to know what else might have been meant when it is not actually written. If something else was meant then why not write it ?" That's a basic reading skill that you've just said you don't have, but me pointing that fact out has insulted you (and it is a fact, because what you have described is inference, which is a basic reading skill).

I asked for clarification for you, not for me. I knew the answer, it didn't need clarifying for me. It was so you could see what was clearly inferred rather than take my word for it. Evidence-based answers and that.

Don't go down the victim route, please.

Right, it's been clarified what was implied. The inference was clear. You didn't get that, fair enough. It was clarified for you. He wasn't saying a name change in its own is what was needed. You yourself have agreed that as part of a bigger package it could work. 

Let's move on.

 

Yeah ... Easy to say you asked for clarification for me - which I didn't need. NO, you did it for YOU !

You previously said you wanted to move on, yet here you are still continuing with the subject - and yet again saying let's move on.

What's wrong with you ? Just.always wanting the last word ?

Anyway, as I said in a previous conversation to satisfy you, Wellsy4HullFC is always right !

 

 

Edited by RL does what Sky says
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