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Wayne Bennett: In or Out?


Wayne Bennett: In or Out?  

91 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Wayne Bennett remain as England/GB Coach?

    • Yes
      3
    • No
      88


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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

But we said that was the case under McNamara and before that Noble and we've been saying it for decades

It used to be said that the Australians had 3 or 4 teams who could beat us. They still do. And also a kiwi side and a tongan side. And a fijian side that would push us close and a samoan side who have as well. 

In 2006 when we played the 4 nations that was all of the best players in the world. And we competed but were second best. 

The reality is James Taumololo has given us a huge boost. In the 2006 world he, Burrell, Fusitua, vunivalu, etc are lining up against us with the best NZ players, and players like Fifita are doing the same in an Australian shirt. We just wouldnt be able to compete with teams that good.

The NRL is producing more, better, fitter players. We.are arguably the 4th best nation in the world right now, in the next 5 years, the way things are going we could easily be the 5th or 6th. 

Now dont get me wrong, its wonderful for international RL that we have more competitive nations, but we shouldn't let it mask the fact that.in terms of player production we are falling further and further behind the NRL

We actually didnt say this under those managers, as we didnt play this turgid style. Under Noble we played some amazing games and lost to the better teams, but we did pick up some wins versus the Aussies and when we did lose it wasnt as depressing a style as this.

Same with McNamara, apart from that 2015 series we played some nice stuff. 

We are under-performing out there. And we are doing it in an appalling way.

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For all this NRL players are better talk it must also be mentioned that Murdoch-Masila, Lolohea and Hurrell all had great games for Tonga. All of course are current Super League players.

The likes of Clarke and Roby have performed better than I've ever see Hodgson play at international level and neither have played in the NRL. Widdop has had more poor games at international level than good ones.

The whole notion that players are automatically better because they play in the NRL just doesn't stack up to me.

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6 hours ago, JohnM said:

Indeed. Too much training and not enough rehearsing and practicing. The coach lagely dictates the way we play given the players he has chosen.  

Are you tryingt to say they at the end of a regular season GB are training and not rehearsing?  You are making it up, as are others on here.

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1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

Will this new coach produce a raft of fresh internationals to test all the new players that are suddenly going to transform our results.  

Has Mal Meninga resigned yet?

Our star prop retired on the eve of this tour and his replacement lasted 5 minutes in the first game. Suddenly our pack looks a bit thin. This is not the fault of the (any) coach.

His tactics & selections in the 9s were bizarre

Only choosing 2 wingers for GB was equally bizarre, plenty of them knocking about in SL

The make up of the squad is totally his responsibility and he got it wrong

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37 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Are you tryingt to say they at the end of a regular season GB are training and not rehearsing?  You are making it up, as are others on here.

Maybe help us understand why the end of a regular season is relevant?   Don't recall this team playing together much prior to these games, hence some rehearsing of patterns of play, structures etc would have could have made a difference.  I'd hazard a guess that the posters  you criticise are not the only creative ones on here.

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14 hours ago, Damien said:

For all this NRL players are better talk it must also be mentioned that Murdoch-Masila, Lolohea and Hurrell all had great games for Tonga. All of course are current Super League players.

The likes of Clarke and Roby have performed better than I've ever see Hodgson play at international level and neither have played in the NRL. Widdop has had more poor games at international level than good ones.

The whole notion that players are automatically better because they play in the NRL just doesn't stack up to me.

Do you really believe a professional coach doesn't use a player because he doesn't play in the NRL? 

Hodgson was incredible this season and it's not so strange playing him. 

 

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4 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Do you really believe a professional coach doesn't use a player because he doesn't play in the NRL? 

Hodgson was incredible this season and it's not so strange playing him. 

 

Well yes because that is what is selections have shown over several years. 

He has said on various occasions of having little awareness of some Super League based players. He has also commented on the bad habits and techniques of Super League players and its clear that NRL players are accustomed to playing the way Bennett wants. This all coupled with the attitude that Super League is an inferior competition, played at a lesser intensity and its fairly obvious when it comes to his picks.

Clarke and Roby have performed far better at international level than Hodgson has ever done.  They have also performed well this season. I wouldn't have picked Roby due to age but Clarke certainly deserved the choice.

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Just now, Damien said:

Well yes because that is what is selections have shown over several years. 

He has said on various occasions of having little awareness of some Super League based players. He has also commented on the bad habits and techniques of Super League players and its clear that NRL players are accustomed to playing the way Bennett wants. This all coupled with the attitude that Super League is an inferior competition, played at a lesser intensity and its fairly obvious when it comes to his picks.

Clarke and Roby have performed far better at international level than Hodgson has ever done.  They have also performed well this season. I wouldn't have picked Roby due to age but Clarke certainly deserved the choice.

It's true.

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3 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

It's true.

What a strange reply which adds little to the debate you started. You disagreed with what I said, asked a question and got an answer. Do you agree with that answer or not or do you still disagree about Bennett picking players because they play in the NRL?

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6 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Not to be ageist because his age isnt really my complaint. 

But It is where we are that we get a coach like Bennett after his time has passed. Whatever you think of his tactics or whether he can be successful again. He isnt the future of the NRL. He is the past. He is nearly 70 years old. 

We are never going to catch up doing what the NRL are doing 10years after they have done it and at a quarter of the price. 

Bennett is incredibly indicative of the outlook that the game here has. That if we keep doing what we are doing, one day we will drop on a win against Australia in a big game and all our problems will be solved. Participation will shoot up, attendances will shoot up, media coverage will shoot and everything will be hunky dory. 

The truth is that we dont have the players to believe that will ever happen and even if it did it would be a one off that couldnt be followed up. And even if we did, by some sort of magic, fall on a squad of players who were amazing and australia had a down few years and we do follow up on it. We dont have the infrastructure to take advantage of a participation rise, we don't have the stadia even if attendances do shoot up, and we dont have the skill to take advantage of an increase in media coverage. What are we going to do? Wheel Rimmer out to mumble and management speak his way in to the nations hearts?

Sadly I can't disagree with a word of the above ?

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26 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Given the season he's had, only a fool would have left Hodgson out. 

Club form is not the be-and-end-all. Hodgson has played for England for a number of years now and we never look offensively strong when is in the team. He is a hindrance to the side because he tries to play (or is told to play) like he does for Canberra as the controlling individual on the park. It does not suit our halves. It didn't in the WC and clearly hasn't this year. We looked much better in the WC when Roby was on the park and looked much better yesterday when Clarke was on the field.

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14 hours ago, JohnM said:

Maybe help us understand why the end of a regular season is relevant?   Don't recall this team playing together much prior to these games, hence some rehearsing of patterns of play, structures etc would have could have made a difference.  I'd hazard a guess that the posters  you criticise are not the only creative ones on here.

But you are suggesting there had been no rehearsing...  how do you know?  It's an absurd speculation. 

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38 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Not to be ageist because his age isnt really my complaint. 

But It is where we are that we get a coach like Bennett after his time has passed. Whatever you think of his tactics or whether he can be successful again. He isnt the future of the NRL. He is the past. He is nearly 70 years old. 

We are never going to catch up doing what the NRL are doing 10years after they have done it and at a quarter of the price. 

Bennett is incredibly indicative of the outlook that the game here has. That if we keep doing what we are doing, one day we will drop on a win against Australia in a big game and all our problems will be solved. Participation will shoot up, attendances will shoot up, media coverage will shoot and everything will be hunky dory. 

The truth is that we dont have the players to believe that will ever happen and even if it did it would be a one off that couldnt be followed up. And even if we did, by some sort of magic, fall on a squad of players who were amazing and australia had a down few years and we do follow up on it. We dont have the infrastructure to take advantage of a participation rise, we don't have the stadia even if attendances do shoot up, and we dont have the skill to take advantage of an increase in media coverage. What are we going to do? Wheel Rimmer out to mumble and management speak his way in to the nations hearts?

Good post. Since the early 80s we have been copying the Aussies but as a result have always been steps behind. The Aussies stole a march on the game in the UK by thinking outside the box, doing things like looking at the NFL and making huge strides in professionalism. We have never caught up and need to be thinking outside the box in the same way and stealing a march on the game in Australia.

Similarly we are never going to beat Australia at their own game, which they perfect week in, week out in both the NRL and SOO. Yes take on board their lessons but incorporate the good into our own playing style, 

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how long does bennett himself want to continue coaching in the nrl and international ?  not sure how old he is but he looks like  his birth certificate is in latin!

see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile 

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24 minutes ago, Damien said:

Good post. Since the early 80s we have been copying the Aussies but as a result have always been steps behind. The Aussies stole a march on the game in the UK by thinking outside the box, doing things like looking at the NFL and making huge strides in professionalism. We have never caught up and need to be thinking outside the box in the same way and stealing a march on the game in Australia.

Similarly we are never going to beat Australia at their own game, which they perfect week in, week out in both the NRL and SOO. Yes take on board their lessons but incorporate the good into our own playing style, 

Are we forgetting that in those early 80s were we’re less fit, by a good way, and our discipline in playing was nowhere near Australia’s.  We relied on individual skills and pep talks.  

I think we have the overall fitness now but still do not have that discipline to be patient whilst taking our chances in the right areas consistently enough.  An example would be the success ratio between a Cronk kick into TIG and our ratio.  

 

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16 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

how long does bennett himself want to continue coaching in the nrl and international ?  not sure how old he is but he looks like  his birth certificate is in latin!

Wasn’t his deal to run to the WC?  I thought that was the goal.

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17 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Are we forgetting that in those early 80s were we’re less fit, by a good way, and our discipline in playing was nowhere near Australia’s.  We relied on individual skills and pep talks.  

I think we have the overall fitness now but still do not have that discipline to be patient whilst taking our chances in the right areas consistently enough.  An example would be the success ratio between a Cronk kick into TIG and our ratio.  

 

I'm not really sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing but you are backing up my point.

In 1978 Great Britain lost the series 2 v 1 but at the same time Widnes and Warrington both beat Australia, Wales weren't far off only losing 3-8. France also won their series against the Aussies 2-0. In 1982 we were getting stuffed by the Invincibles, then in 1986 by the Unbeatables and this has largely been the case since.

Australia did not make this leap by copying what we did, they made giant strides by copying from elsewhere. Since the 1980's we have been doing nothing but trying to ape Australia. The game in the UK needs to develop a whole game approach to develop going forward, improve the foundations and it needs to copy from all sports when doing so. We will never beat Australia consistently by just blindly copying what they do and trying to play them at their own game. A game they play week in, week out to a much higher standard than what we do.

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1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Wasn’t his deal to run to the WC?  I thought that was the goal.

Yeh I think it was . Looks a long way off at present though . As of now I’d say odds against him getting there 

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29 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

This is the thing we have to address. Why dont we have anyone as good at kicking as Cronk, it isnt just down to numbers. Its down to scouting, training, development, its down to philosophy at youth level, its down to how we bring players through the levels. Its about the sorting hat we put players through at really young ages that sticks relatively big lads in the forwards, relatively small lads in the backs, its about a commitment to full size 13 a side RL that sees lads at 8,9,10,11,12,13 fall out of love with the game because they spend 75minutes stuck on the wing getting no ball and the rest of the game getting smashed by kids twice their weight. Its about the lack of facilities that make RL clubs a nice place to spend time, its about the parents and coaches screaming on the sidelines. 

Then when we get to pro level its about how only a few clubs actually invest in youth development, its about them going from youth age RL to an atrocious standard of reserves or the half-assed not fully committed to feeder system that DR was, its about how on earth does a young half actually get a game? How do they get time and space to develop when you cant really afford to trust them for 80mins a game 30times a year and you can't afford to have a good halfs cap space sat in the stands. Its about how the SC means we prize utility of specialism

There are huge number of things that are within our control that we don't do well, dont invest in, dont really see the point in, and often just pay lip service. We need a radical commitment to change these things, at the expense of how things were, at the expense of some other things, and at a financial cost. 

I get all these different aspects of scouting, playing style, fitness development etc. But surely the most overwhelming factor is numbers. Maybe I'm just simplifying it to much but if we had 10× the amount of kids playing the game, we would have someone that kicks as good as Cooper Cronk.

When Steve McNamara was an assistant at the Roosters, I remember him saying something along the lines that there were more 16 year old registered rugby league players (under 16's) in Penrith than all of England combined. Penrith is a suburb of Sydney.

So numbers wise, the Penrith Panthers have the same number of juniors to pick from than the English national team.

 

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