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Oliver Clothesoff

Wayne Bennett: In or Out?

Wayne Bennett: In or Out?  

91 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Wayne Bennett remain as England/GB Coach?

    • Yes
      3
    • No
      88


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Bennets assessment made perfect sense.

I think that what looks like a poor performance is just dull as dishwater.

The way Tonga have posed so many questions has highlighted this and contrasts with GB only too starkly.

 

Edited by Oxford

“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Lets not let the fantastic result of Tonga today cloud how bad we have been. Australia played poorly and still should have won. We shouldnt have been in with a shout. 

I honestly can't see this side beating Australia. We just arent good enough going forward, and in fairness to Bennett these problems precede him. But the fact is, take out the Denver test against a largely 2nd string NZ side and we (and lets be honest, GB and England are pretty much the same) have scored more than 20 points, against tier 1 sides twice in the last 10 years 

We are where we are. We seem to be going backwards rather than forwards. We arent a terrible team, we will beat New Zealand about half the time. Tonga have shown they are more than a match for us, Australia, as always, are better than us but will we will over-perform from time to time. 

But where we should be playing catchup the NRL is professionalising and improving at a faster rate than we are. The way we are 'hanging in' on games and making them competitive is going to see diminishing returns. 

This tour should serve as a wake up call for our development of players from the very earliest ages up, and act as a catalyst for the prioritisation of expanding the game and youth development because while we hope this Tongan dream is a temporary blip, its probably more likely right now that instead of us over-taking them again, we get overtaken by some of the other pacific nations. 

I disagree it's that drastic, and for me it is clear that the players have been hampered by Bennet's tactics rather than the other way round.

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2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I disagree it's that drastic, and for me it is clear that the players have been hampered by Bennet's tactics rather than the other way round.

But we said that was the case under McNamara and before that Noble and we've been saying it for decades

It used to be said that the Australians had 3 or 4 teams who could beat us. They still do. And also a kiwi side and a tongan side. And a fijian side that would push us close and a samoan side who have as well. 

In 2006 when we played the 4 nations that was all of the best players in the world. And we competed but were second best. 

The reality is James Taumololo has given us a huge boost. In the 2006 world he, Burrell, Fusitua, vunivalu, etc are lining up against us with the best NZ players, and players like Fifita are doing the same in an Australian shirt. We just wouldnt be able to compete with teams that good.

The NRL is producing more, better, fitter players. We.are arguably the 4th best nation in the world right now, in the next 5 years, the way things are going we could easily be the 5th or 6th. 

Now dont get me wrong, its wonderful for international RL that we have more competitive nations, but we shouldn't let it mask the fact that.in terms of player production we are falling further and further behind the NRL

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2 hours ago, Damien said:

Whilst I agree with the gist of what you are saying England should have been looking to 2021 from 2017 and looking to develop the squad with that in mind. A GB tour and year with no England game and things like O'Loughlin, Graham, Hill etc still getting picked shouldn't have been part of that. England should be looking to really step up its preparations this year with 2021 in mind because we are running out of time.

Its probably too late for anything but sticking plasters now for 2021. We will do ok and like everyone else I'll get carried away that this time we can do it.

But we are an old team with a win now mentality that isnt winning and by 2022 when we go.for that clear out we will.be in the same position. Blooding 25,26,27, 28 year olds 

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10 hours ago, Spidey said:

He’s just not kicked on after the World Cup final, gone backwards in fact. Need new coach quickly and use next years game as a platform for the next World Cup (as this year should have been without GB)

Will this new coach produce a raft of fresh internationals to test all the new players that are suddenly going to transform our results.  

Has Mal Meninga resigned yet?

Our star prop retired on the eve of this tour and his replacement lasted 5 minutes in the first game. Suddenly our pack looks a bit thin. This is not the fault of the (any) coach.

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

But we said that was the case under McNamara and before that Noble and we've been saying it for decades

It used to be said that the Australians had 3 or 4 teams who could beat us. They still do. And also a kiwi side and a tongan side. And a fijian side that would push us close and a samoan side who have as well. 

In 2006 when we played the 4 nations that was all of the best players in the world. And we competed but were second best. 

The reality is James Taumololo has given us a huge boost. In the 2006 world he, Burrell, Fusitua, vunivalu, etc are lining up against us with the best NZ players, and players like Fifita are doing the same in an Australian shirt. We just wouldnt be able to compete with teams that good.

The NRL is producing more, better, fitter players. We.are arguably the 4th best nation in the world right now, in the next 5 years, the way things are going we could easily be the 5th or 6th. 

Now dont get me wrong, its wonderful for international RL that we have more competitive nations, but we shouldn't let it mask the fact that.in terms of player production we are falling further and further behind the NRL

We actually didnt say this under those managers, as we didnt play this turgid style. Under Noble we played some amazing games and lost to the better teams, but we did pick up some wins versus the Aussies and when we did lose it wasnt as depressing a style as this.

Same with McNamara, apart from that 2015 series we played some nice stuff. 

We are under-performing out there. And we are doing it in an appalling way.

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For all this NRL players are better talk it must also be mentioned that Murdoch-Masila, Lolohea and Hurrell all had great games for Tonga. All of course are current Super League players.

The likes of Clarke and Roby have performed better than I've ever see Hodgson play at international level and neither have played in the NRL. Widdop has had more poor games at international level than good ones.

The whole notion that players are automatically better because they play in the NRL just doesn't stack up to me.

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6 hours ago, JohnM said:

Indeed. Too much training and not enough rehearsing and practicing. The coach lagely dictates the way we play given the players he has chosen.  

Are you tryingt to say they at the end of a regular season GB are training and not rehearsing?  You are making it up, as are others on here.

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1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

Will this new coach produce a raft of fresh internationals to test all the new players that are suddenly going to transform our results.  

Has Mal Meninga resigned yet?

Our star prop retired on the eve of this tour and his replacement lasted 5 minutes in the first game. Suddenly our pack looks a bit thin. This is not the fault of the (any) coach.

His tactics & selections in the 9s were bizarre

Only choosing 2 wingers for GB was equally bizarre, plenty of them knocking about in SL

The make up of the squad is totally his responsibility and he got it wrong

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37 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Are you tryingt to say they at the end of a regular season GB are training and not rehearsing?  You are making it up, as are others on here.

Maybe help us understand why the end of a regular season is relevant?   Don't recall this team playing together much prior to these games, hence some rehearsing of patterns of play, structures etc would have could have made a difference.  I'd hazard a guess that the posters  you criticise are not the only creative ones on here.


Four legs good - two legs bad

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14 hours ago, Damien said:

For all this NRL players are better talk it must also be mentioned that Murdoch-Masila, Lolohea and Hurrell all had great games for Tonga. All of course are current Super League players.

The likes of Clarke and Roby have performed better than I've ever see Hodgson play at international level and neither have played in the NRL. Widdop has had more poor games at international level than good ones.

The whole notion that players are automatically better because they play in the NRL just doesn't stack up to me.

Do you really believe a professional coach doesn't use a player because he doesn't play in the NRL? 

Hodgson was incredible this season and it's not so strange playing him. 

 


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Bennett’s style of 5 drives and a kick will not beat Australia. Add to that it’s awful to watch and his very questionable selections means it’s time for a change. We’re going backwards 

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4 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Do you really believe a professional coach doesn't use a player because he doesn't play in the NRL? 

Hodgson was incredible this season and it's not so strange playing him. 

 

Well yes because that is what is selections have shown over several years. 

He has said on various occasions of having little awareness of some Super League based players. He has also commented on the bad habits and techniques of Super League players and its clear that NRL players are accustomed to playing the way Bennett wants. This all coupled with the attitude that Super League is an inferior competition, played at a lesser intensity and its fairly obvious when it comes to his picks.

Clarke and Roby have performed far better at international level than Hodgson has ever done.  They have also performed well this season. I wouldn't have picked Roby due to age but Clarke certainly deserved the choice.

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Just now, Damien said:

Well yes because that is what is selections have shown over several years. 

He has said on various occasions of having little awareness of some Super League based players. He has also commented on the bad habits and techniques of Super League players and its clear that NRL players are accustomed to playing the way Bennett wants. This all coupled with the attitude that Super League is an inferior competition, played at a lesser intensity and its fairly obvious when it comes to his picks.

Clarke and Roby have performed far better at international level than Hodgson has ever done.  They have also performed well this season. I wouldn't have picked Roby due to age but Clarke certainly deserved the choice.

It's true.


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I don't think Bennett will fancy another 2 years TBH. Both international programmes are in the UK and he is trying to win a premiership with Souths. He is also very old.

Edited by Scubby

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Given the season he's had, only a fool would have left Hodgson out. 

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3 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

It's true.

What a strange reply which adds little to the debate you started. You disagreed with what I said, asked a question and got an answer. Do you agree with that answer or not or do you still disagree about Bennett picking players because they play in the NRL?

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No, I agree the SL Is inferior. 


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10 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I don't think Bennett will fancy another 2 years TBH. Both international programmes are in the UK and he is trying to win a premiership with Souths. He is also very old.

Not to be ageist because his age isnt really my complaint. 

But It is where we are that we get a coach like Bennett after his time has passed. Whatever you think of his tactics or whether he can be successful again. He isnt the future of the NRL. He is the past. He is nearly 70 years old. 

We are never going to catch up doing what the NRL are doing 10years after they have done it and at a quarter of the price. 

Bennett is incredibly indicative of the outlook that the game here has. That if we keep doing what we are doing, one day we will drop on a win against Australia in a big game and all our problems will be solved. Participation will shoot up, attendances will shoot up, media coverage will shoot and everything will be hunky dory. 

The truth is that we dont have the players to believe that will ever happen and even if it did it would be a one off that couldnt be followed up. And even if we did, by some sort of magic, fall on a squad of players who were amazing and australia had a down few years and we do follow up on it. We dont have the infrastructure to take advantage of a participation rise, we don't have the stadia even if attendances do shoot up, and we dont have the skill to take advantage of an increase in media coverage. What are we going to do? Wheel Rimmer out to mumble and management speak his way in to the nations hearts?

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6 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Not to be ageist because his age isnt really my complaint. 

But It is where we are that we get a coach like Bennett after his time has passed. Whatever you think of his tactics or whether he can be successful again. He isnt the future of the NRL. He is the past. He is nearly 70 years old. 

We are never going to catch up doing what the NRL are doing 10years after they have done it and at a quarter of the price. 

Bennett is incredibly indicative of the outlook that the game here has. That if we keep doing what we are doing, one day we will drop on a win against Australia in a big game and all our problems will be solved. Participation will shoot up, attendances will shoot up, media coverage will shoot and everything will be hunky dory. 

The truth is that we dont have the players to believe that will ever happen and even if it did it would be a one off that couldnt be followed up. And even if we did, by some sort of magic, fall on a squad of players who were amazing and australia had a down few years and we do follow up on it. We dont have the infrastructure to take advantage of a participation rise, we don't have the stadia even if attendances do shoot up, and we dont have the skill to take advantage of an increase in media coverage. What are we going to do? Wheel Rimmer out to mumble and management speak his way in to the nations hearts?

Sadly I can't disagree with a word of the above 😳

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26 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Given the season he's had, only a fool would have left Hodgson out. 

Club form is not the be-and-end-all. Hodgson has played for England for a number of years now and we never look offensively strong when is in the team. He is a hindrance to the side because he tries to play (or is told to play) like he does for Canberra as the controlling individual on the park. It does not suit our halves. It didn't in the WC and clearly hasn't this year. We looked much better in the WC when Roby was on the park and looked much better yesterday when Clarke was on the field.

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14 hours ago, JohnM said:

Maybe help us understand why the end of a regular season is relevant?   Don't recall this team playing together much prior to these games, hence some rehearsing of patterns of play, structures etc would have could have made a difference.  I'd hazard a guess that the posters  you criticise are not the only creative ones on here.

But you are suggesting there had been no rehearsing...  how do you know?  It's an absurd speculation. 

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38 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Not to be ageist because his age isnt really my complaint. 

But It is where we are that we get a coach like Bennett after his time has passed. Whatever you think of his tactics or whether he can be successful again. He isnt the future of the NRL. He is the past. He is nearly 70 years old. 

We are never going to catch up doing what the NRL are doing 10years after they have done it and at a quarter of the price. 

Bennett is incredibly indicative of the outlook that the game here has. That if we keep doing what we are doing, one day we will drop on a win against Australia in a big game and all our problems will be solved. Participation will shoot up, attendances will shoot up, media coverage will shoot and everything will be hunky dory. 

The truth is that we dont have the players to believe that will ever happen and even if it did it would be a one off that couldnt be followed up. And even if we did, by some sort of magic, fall on a squad of players who were amazing and australia had a down few years and we do follow up on it. We dont have the infrastructure to take advantage of a participation rise, we don't have the stadia even if attendances do shoot up, and we dont have the skill to take advantage of an increase in media coverage. What are we going to do? Wheel Rimmer out to mumble and management speak his way in to the nations hearts?

Good post. Since the early 80s we have been copying the Aussies but as a result have always been steps behind. The Aussies stole a march on the game in the UK by thinking outside the box, doing things like looking at the NFL and making huge strides in professionalism. We have never caught up and need to be thinking outside the box in the same way and stealing a march on the game in Australia.

Similarly we are never going to beat Australia at their own game, which they perfect week in, week out in both the NRL and SOO. Yes take on board their lessons but incorporate the good into our own playing style, 

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