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RayCee

Oceania Cup

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Two Groups of three teams. What a great concept. A pity the NH cannot get something going. Anyway, my summary of the groups can bee seen here. 

Group A:

https://rugbyl.blogspot.com/2019/11/oceania-cup-2019-group-a.html

Group B

https://rugbyl.blogspot.com/2019/11/oceania-cup-2019-group-b.html

 


My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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They have a European Cup every 2 years I watched a couple of games last year. Games were streamed live and free by the BBC, France are the current Champions they beat Scotland, Ireland and Wales. It isnt taking place this year as there are World Cup Qualifiers going on in Europe at the moment, so next European Championship should be next year 2020 then takes a break in 2021 for the World Cup then returns in 2022. But European Nations need to some work to raise profile of the tournament.

Edited by kiwis 13 6
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1 hour ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

They have a European Cup every 2 years I watched a couple of games last year. Games were streamed live and free by the BBC, France are the current Champions they beat Scotland, Ireland and Wales. It isnt taking place this year as there are World Cup Qualifiers going on in Europe at the moment, so next European Championship should be next year 2020 then takes a break in 2021 for the World Cup then returns in 2022. But European Nations need to some work to raise profile of the tournament.

I didn't word it very well. I meant getting something going with England (an A team preferably or at the very least a B side) being involved annually, which would raise the profile hugely.

I also hoped they could have still done something for 2019, say England B, Wales and France if Scotland and Ireland were unable. I don't think England will be involved anytime soon.


My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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12 hours ago, RayCee said:

I didn't word it very well. I meant getting something going with England (an A team preferably or at the very least a B side) being involved annually, which would raise the profile hugely.

They've done it before. It doesn't raise the profile at all if an England A team is in it, because it instantly devalues the competition. The perception of the other nations is then subsequently harmed further when they lose to England A.

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On 10/11/2019 at 23:01, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

They've done it before. It doesn't raise the profile at all if an England A team is in it, because it instantly devalues the competition. The perception of the other nations is then subsequently harmed further when they lose to England A.

What if they hammered by a full England side. Does that not do harm as much if not more? 

Should England stick to the SH and ignore Europe? 

Could England field a team in Europe and call it England even if the top players aren't involved? Would it be granted test status?

Or could they play it earlier in the season (without NRL based players) so there would be no clash of fixtures? 

Many questions but I am looking for answers. It would be nice Geek if you could offer an alternative to "It won't work". 


My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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6 hours ago, RayCee said:

What if they hammered by a full England side. Does that not do harm as much if not more?  

No. Definitely not. If you aren't deemed good enough to play a first team, then instantly the game is viewed as second rate, and will not engage spectators. If you then lose to the second string side, then you're perceived on an even lower level. We've tried this before -  it doesn't work.

6 hours ago, RayCee said:

Should England stick to the SH and ignore Europe?

No - England should play several full internationals against European teams every year.

6 hours ago, RayCee said:

Could England field a team in Europe and call it England even if the top players aren't involved? Would it be granted test status?

Yes. Nobody outside the game would know. It is the wider public that needs to be engaged with these internationals. Plus it would arguably make the competition more competitive. It would just need everyone to say it was the full England team, instead of having the coach talk about trying out different combinations in his post match interview...

6 hours ago, RayCee said:

Or could they play it earlier in the season (without NRL based players) so there would be no clash of fixtures? 

I don't know.

6 hours ago, RayCee said:

Many questions but I am looking for answers. It would be nice Geek if you could offer an alternative to "It won't work". 

I've lost count of how many threads I've mentioned my ideas on, but at the risk of sounding like a broken record, there should be a mid-season Euro Championships every year - 4 teams, round robin, with annual P&R with a lower tier. Needs to tie in with a high profile comp at the end of the season (e.g. WC, Confederations Cup or Lions series) in order to encourage players to make themselves available mid-season so that they boost their chances for selection at the end of the season.

We need to really market and promote any international competition to raise the profile of the game, so push the boat out and throw the kitchen sink at it (like cricket has done with The Hundred). Don't play an England 'A' team or play the games at Leigh Sports Village on a Wednesday night. Both of which instantly devalue the concept.

Now I don't know if this would work or not, but it's something we've never done. Re-hashing previously attempted ideas that didn't work and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. The bigger problem is getting the clubs on board via some strong leadership. Can't see it happening any time soon. Doesn't mean it's a bad idea in principle though.

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Interestingly if someone had come up with the Oceania Cup concept several years ago, many would have said it wouldn't work. 

I did an article on the European equivalent.

https://rugbyl.blogspot.com/2019/11/european-group-history-1970-2018.html

A full England side stopped participating in 2004 and a B side had a cameo appearance in 2012. England left to focus on the four nations which seems to have fallen by the wayside in favour of the Oceania Cup. Great for the Pacific but where does that leave England? 

The European Group A has continued but has not been a high profile comp and seems to be in need of a boost. I don't thing getting 200 spectators in Ireland or Scotland a success (but it's better than not playing at all). However, England's participation in some way would surely add something. 

The Oceania Cup shows that working with Pacific nations has had benefit. I think England should do more to work with other nations in Europe. The Oceania Cup is the way forward and the NH needs to look at what it can learn from it. 


My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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13 hours ago, RayCee said:

A full England side stopped participating in 2004

But was it a full England side, or were they competing at the same time as GB were playing internationals, and therefore a second string in all but name?

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