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The Future is League

Wayne Bennetts future decided on several issues

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"That dialogue has started and been ongoing for some time. What's important is, Wayne is here as Great Britain head coach, but we should really take into account his performances as England head coach when we decide what happens over the next couple of years. He got us to a World Cup final, we won the Test series last year against the Kiwis, and although there is disappointment this time with GB, it's important to understand the changes and the transition that has happened."

- In other words, it's already been decided that he'll remain as England coach.

"Look at this series and the players that are missing," he added. "There's Sean O'Loughlin, Sam Burgess, James Roby, Luke Gale, Kallum Watkins, Tommy Makinson, Mark Percival. There's a handful there of top international players - our pool is getting bigger and better."

- Nonsense. O'Loughlin and Burgess will never play for England again. Gale and Watkins have essentially missed 2 entire seasons of rugby, and we have no idea if they'll ever play for England again. Bennett has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't rate Percival in the slightest. Roby will be 35 by the next RLWC - are we pinning our hopes on him? So that only leaves Makinson, an excellent player but as a winger he won't be solving our creativity problem.

Perfectly obvious from that interview that Sinfield is in Bennett's camp. He's just making excuses for the awful squad selections and terrible performances on this tour. The only chance of him not receiving a new contract is if GB lose to PNG next weekend.

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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4 hours ago, nadera78 said:

"That dialogue has started and been ongoing for some time. What's important is, Wayne is here as Great Britain head coach, but we should really take into account his performances as England head coach when we decide what happens over the next couple of years. He got us to a World Cup final, we won the Test series last year against the Kiwis, and although there is disappointment this time with GB, it's important to understand the changes and the transition that has happened."

- In other words, it's already been decided that he'll remain as England coach.

"Look at this series and the players that are missing," he added. "There's Sean O'Loughlin, Sam Burgess, James Roby, Luke Gale, Kallum Watkins, Tommy Makinson, Mark Percival. There's a handful there of top international players - our pool is getting bigger and better."

- Nonsense. O'Loughlin and Burgess will never play for England again. Gale and Watkins have essentially missed 2 entire seasons of rugby, and we have no idea if they'll ever play for England again. Bennett has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't rate Percival in the slightest. Roby will be 35 by the next RLWC - are we pinning our hopes on him? So that only leaves Makinson, an excellent player but as a winger he won't be solving our creativity problem.

Perfectly obvious from that interview that Sinfield is in Bennett's camp. He's just making excuses for the awful squad selections and terrible performances on this tour. The only chance of him not receiving a new contract is if GB lose to PNG next weekend.

I get what you’re saying but he is offering some balance. 

We have lost a lot of key players and some world class ones which we just don’t have the depth of quality to replace with at the moment. That said, it doesn’t take away from the poor unimaginable style and unbalanced squad selection 

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49 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I get what you’re saying but he is offering some balance. 

We have lost a lot of key players and some world class ones which we just don’t have the depth of quality to replace with at the moment. That said, it doesn’t take away from the poor unimaginable style and unbalanced squad selection 

Not really, he does say they're missing. But he seems to be suggesting that the named players are part of a wide pool of talent, which just is not true. It's likely only one is ever going to play a role for us again.

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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1 hour ago, DoubleD said:

I get what you’re saying but he is offering some balance. 

We have lost a lot of key players and some world class ones which we just don’t have the depth of quality to replace with at the moment. That said, it doesn’t take away from the poor unimaginable style and unbalanced squad selection 

The heart of the problem of this "tour" is that its only 4 games long.  Its not a tour, its a short hop down to the corner shop.  The reason is that we have now moved to summer and the season is over and so we have no one to play against.  We have only brought just enough players to get by. 

But the RL are somewhat stuffed because several teams now play in football stadiums or share with football  and that would really complicate matters if we moved back to winter.  

And so with only France available we have no rep games during the season.  The NRL would not let any Island players off for mid season rep games.

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1 hour ago, nadera78 said:

Not really, he does say they're missing. But he seems to be suggesting that the named players are part of a wide pool of talent, which just is not true. It's likely only one is ever going to play a role for us again.

Regardless, we don’t have the quality of player that we had in 17 World Cup and so it’s not surprising the results reflect that and that should be factored into any consideration. 

However the style of play and imbalanced squad are of Bennett’s making

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31 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

The heart of the problem of this "tour" is that its only 4 games long.  Its not a tour, its a short hop down to the corner shop.  The reason is that we have now moved to summer and the season is over and so we have no one to play against.  We have only brought just enough players to get by. 

But the RL are somewhat stuffed because several teams now play in football stadiums or share with football  and that would really complicate matters if we moved back to winter.  

And so with only France available we have no rep games during the season.  The NRL would not let any Island players off for mid season rep games.

That doesn’t change the fact the squad was completely unbalanced. After Gildart got injured, he could’ve called on Lyne, Percival, Handley or Grace but he didn’t. 

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This tour was a disaster.

Does he deserve the sack? 

Yes and no.

England have made progress under him. But they (ehm, GB) were embarassing this season.

I don't buy the argument he doesn't know the SL players as he's picked the SL man of steel for all 3 games, and Coote himself was the FB of the SL dominating season. But still, not calling any winger or centre after those injuries, it's embarassing and has damaged that GB brend that – like it or not – the RFL was trying to push.

It's not my job to say he has to be replaced, but both options have their pro.

If you replace him, I'd go with a full time coach and have the team playing at least twice during the season (say, v. France and v. a Pacific nation). Going to the Ashes with no games played in 11 months would be a disaster waiting to happen. 

 

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2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

That doesn’t change the fact the squad was completely unbalanced. After Gildart got injured, he could’ve called on Lyne, Percival, Handley or Grace but he didn’t. 

Percival was injured!

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1 hour ago, MatthewWoody said:

...

If you replace him, I'd go with a full time coach and have the team playing at least twice during the season (say, v. France and v. a Pacific nation). Going to the Ashes with no games played in 11 months would be a disaster waiting to happen. 

Any players from a Pacific nation would be playing in the middle of their season and would probably not be released. They would be travelling half way round the world, jet lagged with no preparation...  which would be just like our game against Tonga.  

Australia will have 3 Origins and an ANZAC test.  We get loop fixtures!

Get real...  We do not have any real international fixtures and even if we did we would not have any preparation and the games themselves would lose money.

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2 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

This tour was a disaster.

Does he deserve the sack? 

Yes and no.

England have made progress under him. But they (ehm, GB) were embarassing this season.

I don't buy the argument he doesn't know the SL players as he's picked the SL man of steel for all 3 games, and Coote himself was the FB of the SL dominating season. But still, not calling any winger or centre after those injuries, it's embarassing and has damaged that GB brend that – like it or not – the RFL was trying to push.

It's not my job to say he has to be replaced, but both options have their pro.

If you replace him, I'd go with a full time coach and have the team playing at least twice during the season (say, v. France and v. a Pacific nation). Going to the Ashes with no games played in 11 months would be a disaster waiting to happen. 

 

We need to play France in mid season in France and not have any NRL players and a maximum of 2 players per club and the team all Englishmen.

I see no value for the game of England playing against a team of plastic Scots, plastic Irishman and plastic Welshmen

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5 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

We need to play France in mid season in France and not have any NRL players and a maximum of 2 players per club and the team all Englishmen.

I see no value for the game of England playing against a team of plastic Scots, plastic Irishman and plastic Welshmen

IMO GB Lions, but you pick a side close to your best regardless of who they play for or you don't play at all. 8 team WC spread over 4 yrs, 14 matches, top 2 play off in a WC Final like we did in 1988 and 1992. 

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19 minutes ago, southwalesrabbitoh said:

IMO GB Lions, but you pick a side close to your best regardless of who they play for or you don't play at all. 8 team WC spread over 4 yrs, 14 matches, top 2 play off in a WC Final like we did in 1988 and 1992. 

Thats now the 15th thread you've posted that on... just to be clear the GB v Eng debate is a fair an genuine debate as we dont know what is going to happen at the moment.. 

The World Cup one is just a non starter... sports have world cups for so many reasons.. we have one we want to keep one and they are planning to do so... 

what you propose is a "world Championships".. which has a certain amount of merit (RU were talking of doing one, the Nations League in football is a sort of European one) but it is not to replace a World Cup...

Can you please move on from this.

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1 minute ago, RP London said:

Thats now the 15th thread you've posted that on... just to be clear the GB v Eng debate is a fair an genuine debate as we dont know what is going to happen at the moment.. 

The World Cup one is just a non starter... sports have world cups for so many reasons.. we have one we want to keep one and they are planning to do so... 

what you propose is a "world Championships".. which has a certain amount of merit (RU were talking of doing one, the Nations League in football is a sort of European one) but it is not to replace a World Cup...

Can you please move on from this.

I believe i am right in the type of WC RL should have at the moment, and possibly all collision sports should have a WC like that. 

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Just now, southwalesrabbitoh said:

I believe i am right in the type of WC RL should have at the moment, and possibly all collision sports should have a WC like that. 

what you describe is not a "world cup".... but you've said it on multiple threads now can you move on rather than trying to derail yet another one.

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3 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

This tour was a disaster.

Does he deserve the sack? 

Yes and no.

England have made progress under him. But they (ehm, GB) were embarassing this season.

I don't buy the argument he doesn't know the SL players as he's picked the SL man of steel for all 3 games, and Coote himself was the FB of the SL dominating season. But still, not calling any winger or centre after those injuries, it's embarassing and has damaged that GB brend that – like it or not – the RFL was trying to push.

It's not my job to say he has to be replaced, but both options have their pro.

If you replace him, I'd go with a full time coach and have the team playing at least twice during the season (say, v. France and v. a Pacific nation). Going to the Ashes with no games played in 11 months would be a disaster waiting to happen. 

 

IMHO He has to go, the make up of the squad and his comments on the GB set up are poor. I know this is the England job we are looking at and not the GB one but he has done this before with the balance of the squad and the RFL still "own" the GB team and he has hardly covered it in glory.. 

Also i believe we would have a much better chance of a mid season international if the coach was based here with a link into Super League and the clubs. I am not fussed if he is not full time I dont think it matters to be perfectly honest but as long as we get the best person for the job i would do whatever they were looking for (full time/part time) and I would make sure the clubs listened to what they needed to have the best chance of winning the world cup.

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As someone said before, with Powell I'd be terrorised that a "more expansive" game could lead to heavy loss like it used to happen

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8 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

As someone said before, with Powell I'd be terrorised that a "more expansive" game could lead to heavy loss like it used to happen

Least we might get a bit more excitment on the field, and a team that may actually look like scoring a try. 5 drives and a kick doesn't work at international level.

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We cant pretend our problems start or stop with Bennett.

There is a problem that we arent producing enough players, of enough quality to be where we want to be. 

We have no centres and no halves that are world class. 

We just arent good enough, tactically, professionally, preparationally, we are years behind. 

We have spent nearlyb2 decades doing things on the cheap, we cant be surprised the NRL has soared even further away.

We need a comprehensive plan not to catch up but to go beyond the NRL. We need a sea change in our thinking at everything from how we get kids to play, how the best of them are developed, how they are introduced to the pro game and how we prioritise the international game. 

This will require money, it will require sacrifice, it will require the old ways of doing things to be consigned to the past. 

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I’d rather see an English coach who is proud to be there and doesn’t openly deride the set up. Get them in now for the Aussies coming over next year and plenty of time to prepare for the WC. It should really be a SL coach. 

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2 minutes ago, Click said:

Least we might get a bit more excitment on the field, and a team that may actually look like scoring a try. 5 drives and a kick doesn't work at international level.

Absolutely. Bennett is killing the game as a spectacle. Look at the RU world cup final, 32-16 or whatever it was, compared to our 6-0 'thriller'. It's all very well to say we were close to winning it, but I know which final any neutral would have preferred watching, and that's an embarrassment for our sport. RL used to be the entertaining sport, and it still can be (Aus v Tonga for example), but I'd doubt anyone who said they'd got up early to watch any of these 'Lions' atrocities and managed to stay the course without nodding off.

Bennett can go hang for a whole load of reasons, but that's the main one.

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4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

We cant pretend our problems start or stop with Bennett.

There is a problem that we arent producing enough players, of enough quality to be where we want to be. 

We have no centres and no halves that are world class. 

We just arent good enough, tactically, professionally, preparationally, we are years behind. 

We have spent nearlyb2 decades doing things on the cheap, we cant be surprised the NRL has soared even further away.

We need a comprehensive plan not to catch up but to go beyond the NRL. We need a sea change in our thinking at everything from how we get kids to play, how the best of them are developed, how they are introduced to the pro game and how we prioritise the international game. 

This will require money, it will require sacrifice, it will require the old ways of doing things to be consigned to the past. 

The problem as is see it is that certain clubs have taken the easy options of signing a has been and never was player from the NRL instead of developing British talent.

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Just now, The Future is League said:

The problem as is see it is that certain clubs have taken the easy options of signing a has been and never was player from the NRL instead of developing British talent.

It's hardly a new problem, and if anything, it is much less of a problem now then it has been in the past.

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Just now, Click said:

It's hardly a new problem, and if anything, it is much less of a problem now then it has been in the past.

This past season Salford didn't have an academy team and Hull FC and Hull KR had a joint academy in a Rugby League city like Hull. Yet Newcastle and London run academies. How long has Rugby League been played in Hull and Salford?

Pathetic from Salford and the Hull clubs in my opinion.

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