DoubleD Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 44 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: Not comparable in any way other than one governing body expanding to become the dominant body over another? What authority will NSWRL have over Fiji’s international remit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 37 minutes ago, DoubleD said: What authority will NSWRL have over Fiji’s international remit? An interesting example you choose... Never mind. It is impossible. It will never happen. Money never succeeds in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlno1 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 On 13/11/2019 at 21:43, rlno1 said: The Cook Islands has had a very stable domestic competition for years with 7 clubs running down to juniors. Some clubs carry Fijian and PNG imports in their ranks. Further on Cook Islands rugby league, top Cook Island team Tupapa Panthers played 2nd Division Auckland club side, Te Atatu on the weekend winning 34-22. https://www.facebook.com/TupapaPanthers/photos/pcb.2321616767948039/2321616437948072/?type=3&theater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnyason Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Have to l pose question. Seeing rugby folk putting Fiji v babas and now touring brazil. Does it seem more of a coincidence given Fiji growth in rugby league and well the positive news around brazil rugby league there watching what is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwis 13 6 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 18 hours ago, Smudger06 said: Queensland RL gets around $18m Australian dollars in ARLC Funding per year. NSWRL gets around $10m Australian dollars in ARLC Funding per year. Out of a total of $38m Funding to States. Holy ###### Mackerel. I had no idea the NRL granted that much $38 million every year to Australian States. In 25 years the NRL's made multi millions in profit out of NZ and it's given next to nothing back to the game in NZ. Seriously you wouldnt believe how tough it is to get funding for grassroots rugby league in NZ. Seriously there are kids games that dont have qualified refs and coaches of kids team who cant afford to get coaching certificates, not to mention no adult mens comp in West Coast or Tasman, Wellington club competition is a shadow of itself. Even Australian banks who operate in NZ at least fund Rescue Helicopters and other charitiies. The NRL have operated with extremely greedy business model in NZ and to date very few people in NZ have called them to account for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, kiwis 13 6 said: Holy ###### Mackerel. I had no idea the NRL granted that much $38 million every year to Australian States. In 25 years the NRL's made multi millions in profit out of NZ and it's given next to nothing back to the game in NZ. Seriously you wouldnt believe how tough it is to get funding for grassroots rugby league in NZ. Seriously there are kids games that dont have qualified refs and coaches of kids team who cant afford to get coaching certificates, not to mention no adult mens comp in West Coast or Tasman, Wellington club competition is a shadow of itself. Even Australian banks who operate in NZ at least fund Rescue Helicopters and other charitiies. The NRL have operated with extremely greedy business model in NZ and to date very few people in NZ have called them to account for that. I love it that you totally ignore the fact that the NRL and NRL clubs have developed basically every professional RL player from NZ over the last 30 years now, and that without the NRL and the Warriors RL would effectively be a dead sport in NZ by now. But putting that to the side, what exactly is it that you want the NRL to do? BTW, it's a sad joke that the NRL only spends $38 million on grants when the 9 NRL clubs in Sydney alone get $117 mil. It's even more disgusting that the vast majority of the $38 mil that does go to the state leagues is split between the NSWRL, QRL, and CRL, while the "affiliated States" (i.e. the ones that need the grant money the most) only get peanuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 On 12/11/2019 at 10:43, Smudger06 said: I support Shane Richardson as Global RL supremo, get it done Shane. Nearly got it... My only amendment would be those 3 x standalone State of Origin fixtures should be on consecutive weeks. Then it allows that last bullet point (International football) to play for 3 x consecutive weeks as well in the middle of the domestic seasons. This structure would revolutionise the game IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwis 13 6 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 7 hours ago, The Great Dane said: I love it that you totally ignore the fact that the NRL and NRL clubs have developed basically every professional RL player from NZ over the last 30 years now, and that without the NRL and the Warriors RL would effectively be a dead sport in NZ by now. But putting that to the side, what exactly is it that you want the NRL to do? BTW, it's a sad joke that the NRL only spends $38 million on grants when the 9 NRL clubs in Sydney alone get $117 mil. It's even more disgusting that the vast majority of the $38 mil that does go to the state leagues is split between the NSWRL, QRL, and CRL, while the "affiliated States" (i.e. the ones that need the grant money the most) only get peanuts. I havent ignored that its is part of reason why support Shane Richardsons suggestion of some NRL funding donated out of funds they make from NZ being granted to help grassroots in NZ. Keebra park type academies could be set up in NZ to help develop NZ based players. I think the best way forward is NRL and NZRL set up a NZ registered charity or non for profit trust to assist youth playing the game in NZ with better facilities, improve referring and coaching standards. the majority of NRL signings from NZ played rugby league in NZ here are there Junior clubs and clubs location in NZ. SBW - Marist, Auckland. Kieran Foran - Ellerslie, Auckland. Issac Luke - Hawera, Taranaki. NAS - Upper Hutt, Wellington. Brandon Smith Waiheke, Auckland. Jermaine Isaako - Aranui, Christchurch. RTS - Otahuhu, Auckland. Shaun Johnson - Hibiscus Coast, Auckland. Its about time to give back to communities in NZ that support the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 2 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: I havent ignored that its is part of reason why support Shane Richardsons suggestion of some NRL funding donated out of funds they make from NZ being granted to help grassroots in NZ. Keebra park type academies could be set up in NZ to help develop NZ based players. I think the best way forward is NRL and NZRL set up a NZ registered charity or non for profit trust to assist youth playing the game in NZ with better facilities, improve referring and coaching standards. Why would the NRL work with the NZRL if they wanted to do that? Why wouldn't they just do it themselves like they are in the PI's with the Pacific Strategy? Besides, you and I both know that isn't what's being talked about. Whats being talked about is annual grants being given to the NZRL. 2 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: the majority of NRL signings from NZ played rugby league in NZ here are there Junior clubs and clubs location in NZ. SBW - Marist, Auckland. Kieran Foran - Ellerslie, Auckland. Issac Luke - Hawera, Taranaki. NAS - Upper Hutt, Wellington. Brandon Smith Waiheke, Auckland. Jermaine Isaako - Aranui, Christchurch. RTS - Otahuhu, Auckland. Shaun Johnson - Hibiscus Coast, Auckland. And if it wasn't for the NRL giving them a pathway to professionalism and the NRL clubs developing them into professionals (which is the bit that is most expensive and difficult) most of them would be professional RU players right now, because the NZRL can't compete with the NZRU and doesn't have the infrastructure to produce professional players anyway, and because of those facts without the NRL RL in NZ would be a tiny minority sport by now. 2 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: Its about time to give back to communities in NZ that support the game. The only way that can really happen is if either the NZRL come under the ARLC's jurisdiction, or the NRL starts operating an organisation in NZ that works in the grassroots and maybe even runs development comps. Anything other than those two options (of variations there of) would either be tokenism, which in my opinion would be a waste of time and money, or would require the NRL to give annual grants to an organisation that is technically one of their competitors in the market, without any means of controlling how that money is spent or what it is spent on, which would be insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlno1 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 It's for the good of the game, everybody wins. The NRL has all the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 18 hours ago, The Great Dane said: I love it that you totally ignore the fact that the NRL and NRL clubs have developed basically every professional RL player from NZ over the last 30 years now, and that without the NRL and the Warriors RL would effectively be a dead sport in NZ by now. But putting that to the side, what exactly is it that you want the NRL to do? BTW, it's a sad joke that the NRL only spends $38 million on grants when the 9 NRL clubs in Sydney alone get $117 mil. It's even more disgusting that the vast majority of the $38 mil that does go to the state leagues is split between the NSWRL, QRL, and CRL, while the "affiliated States" (i.e. the ones that need the grant money the most) only get peanuts. This last month has seen the death of CRL. Swallowed whole by NSWRL. Meaning NSWRL funding will now be more or less on par with QRL. RIP CRL. Probably meaning a max of about $3m to the remaining affiliates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwis 13 6 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Smudger06 said: This last month has seen the death of CRL. Swallowed whole by NSWRL. Meaning NSWRL funding will now be more or less on par with QRL. RIP CRL. Probably meaning a max of about $3m to the remaining affiliates? In your opinion will this mean less funding for CRL areas undr NSWRL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 4 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: In your opinion will this mean less funding for CRL areas undr NSWRL? A lot less funding further down the road, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 7 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: In your opinion will this mean less funding for CRL areas undr NSWRL? 3 hours ago, Smudger06 said: A lot less funding further down the road, yes. Yeah the CRL regions will be cut off from any growth while the sport continues to slowly wilt and die in those regions. Unless there're big changes (i.e. a huge injection of funding, and some way to get the game played at a relatively high level locally) the grassroots of RL will be pretty much dead in all of western and southern NSW and the ACT within a couple generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwis 13 6 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 minute ago, The Great Dane said: Yeah the CRL regions will be cut off from any growth while the sport continues to slowly wilt and die in those regions. Unless there're big changes (i.e. a huge injection of funding, and some way to get the game played at a relatively high level locally) the grassroots of RL will be pretty much dead in all of western and southern NSW and the ACT within a couple generations. Sounds like the same thing that has been happen in NZ outside of Auckland for all of this century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 4 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: Sounds like the same thing that has been happen in NZ outside of Auckland for all of this century. Yet despite that fact you want the NRL to give annual grants to the NZRL whom will just take that money and hand it all to the Auckland Rugby League, which will amount to the NRL wasting a fortune and not an ounce of difference being made to the grassroots of RL in NZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwis 13 6 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 4 hours ago, The Great Dane said: Yet despite that fact you want the NRL to give annual grants to the NZRL whom will just take that money and hand it all to the Auckland Rugby League, which will amount to the NRL wasting a fortune and not an ounce of difference being made to the grassroots of RL in NZ. What you have mentioned is not what I want and not necessarily what will happen. I agree with Shane Richardson's proposal of the NRL making a grant to the NZRL to assist with grassroots funding. NRL has operated as a business in NZ for 25 years and to date has not reinvested any of the profit into the NZ community it makes that profit from. Some admire that as ruthless business practice others despise that as an exploitative business model, many dont care either way but i have said what i have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 5 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: What you have mentioned is not what I want and not necessarily what will happen. I agree with Shane Richardson's proposal of the NRL making a grant to the NZRL to assist with grassroots funding. The NRL don't have any institutional control over the NZRL, so once the NZRL had the grants in their pocket they could spend it how they like and there wouldn't be a damned thing that the NRL could do about it, and going by the NZRL's MO it's pretty safe to assume that they'd funnel most, if not all, of the money into the ARL where most of it would be thrown away frivolously. 5 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: NRL has operated as a business in NZ for 25 years and to date has not reinvested any of the profit into the NZ community it makes that profit from. I'm sorry but the suggestion that the NRL and especially the Warriors don't reinvest some of their profit back into NZ is just a load of ######. They may not be reinvesting as much as you'd like them to or investing it how you'd like them to invest it, but firstly I think you'll find that is largely so they don't step on the NZRL's toes, and secondly that doesn't mean that they aren't investing. 5 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: Some admire that as ruthless business practice others despise that as an exploitative business model, many dont care either way but i have said what i have to say. Is this a consistent principle that you hold? Like do you think that e.g. the EPL should have to " invest" some of the money that they earn in NZ back into NZ by giving NZ Football annual grants? What about non-sporting companies? Does e.g. McDonald's have to pay off the local burger chains like they are paying off the mob as well? What about when the NZRL (and other NZ businesses) makes money in other markets? For example should the NRL get a cut of the money that the NZRL makes in Australia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwis 13 6 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 On 20/11/2019 at 16:15, The Great Dane said: The NRL don't have any institutional control over the NZRL, so once the NZRL had the grants in their pocket they could spend it how they like and there wouldn't be a damned thing that the NRL could do about it, and going by the NZRL's MO it's pretty safe to assume that they'd funnel most, if not all, of the money into the ARL where most of it would be thrown away frivolously. That is a fair point regarding how a potential NRL grant would be spent in the NZ. A grant would be audited and have to be spent on designated purposes that assist the grassroots game In NZ Eg: courses recruiting and training refs/coaches & initatvites to encourage kids to play rugby league in NZ. The Auckland Rugby league like all provincial Rugby Leagues in NZ are affiliated to the NZRL. NZRL dosnt fund the Auckland rugby league. Auckland Rugby League are funded by the Carlaw Park Heritage trust which issues a yearly grant to the 32 rugby league clubs in Auckland. This is a unique situation and no other region in the country has anything like this type of funding for Rugby League. NZRL runs nationwide provincial representative competitions & tournaments at youth, Secondary School, Men's and Women's levels. NZRL is currently made up of 7 Regional zones & Auckland is divided into two zones Akarana & Counties Manukau. NZRL controls how representative team funding is spent by Akarana & Counties not the Auckland Rugby League. On 20/11/2019 at 16:15, The Great Dane said: I'm sorry but the suggestion that the NRL and especially the Warriors don't reinvest some of their profit back into NZ is just a load of ######. They may not be reinvesting as much as you'd like them to or investing it how you'd like them to invest it, but firstly I think you'll find that is largely so they don't step on the NZRL's toes, and secondly that doesn't mean that they aren't investing. As I said earlier I am aware of only one instance the NRL financially assisted the NZ Schoolboys team trip to Brisbane in 2015. I stand by my earlier comments about the NRL not investing even a small % of profit back into the game on an on going basis in some from of grant, initiative, trust or program to communities in NZ that support the game. But please feel free to post any links to articles, programs and budgets that prove otherwise. On 20/11/2019 at 16:15, The Great Dane said: Like do you think that e.g. the EPL should have to " invest" some of the money that they earn in NZ back into NZ by giving NZ Football annual grants? What about non-sporting companies? Does e.g. McDonald's have to pay off the local burger chains like they are paying off the mob as well? What about when the NZRL (and other NZ businesses) makes money in other markets? For example should the NRL get a cut of the money that the NZRL makes in Australia? NZ does not have a team in the EPL & an EPL match has never even been played in New Zealand so I do not think that the EPL has any obligation to invest anything into Soccer in NZ. The fast food restaurant you named give back to the NZ community by funding free accommodation facilities in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch for sick children and there families to stay in while the children undergo treatment in hospitals! ARLC/NZRL/RFL/FFR13/PNGRL already share the profits or losses of international matches when two nations play each other in whichever country matches are played in and that should continue to be the case.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 8 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: That is a fair point regarding how a potential NRL grant would be spent in the NZ. A grant would be audited and have to be spent on designated purposes that assist the grassroots game In NZ Eg: courses recruiting and training refs/coaches & initatvites to encourage kids to play rugby league in NZ. The Auckland Rugby league like all provincial Rugby Leagues in NZ are affiliated to the NZRL. NZRL dosnt fund the Auckland rugby league. Auckland Rugby League are funded by the Carlaw Park Heritage trust which issues a yearly grant to the 32 rugby league clubs in Auckland. This is a unique situation and no other region in the country has anything like this type of funding for Rugby League. NZRL runs nationwide provincial representative competitions & tournaments at youth, Secondary School, Men's and Women's levels. NZRL is currently made up of 7 Regional zones & Auckland is divided into two zones Akarana & Counties Manukau. NZRL controls how representative team funding is spent by Akarana & Counties not the Auckland Rugby League. As I said earlier I am aware of only one instance the NRL financially assisted the NZ Schoolboys team trip to Brisbane in 2015. I stand by my earlier comments about the NRL not investing even a small % of profit back into the game on an on going basis in some from of grant, initiative, trust or program to communities in NZ that support the game. But please feel free to post any links to articles, programs and budgets that prove otherwise. NZ does not have a team in the EPL & an EPL match has never even been played in New Zealand so I do not think that the EPL has any obligation to invest anything into Soccer in NZ. The fast food restaurant you named give back to the NZ community by funding free accommodation facilities in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch for sick children and there families to stay in while the children undergo treatment in hospitals! ARLC/NZRL/RFL/FFR13/PNGRL already share the profits or losses of international matches when two nations play each other in whichever country matches are played in and that should continue to be the case.. Good post. The Warriors already get central funding as per the other 15 NRL Clubs. It's a case of do you want NZRL to be an independent test playing nation? or a member of the ARLC on the same basis as QRL & NSWRL, officially & legally coming under the ARLC is the only way you'll ever receive a grant comparable to the NSWRL & QRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Smudger06 said: Good post. The Warriors already get central funding as per the other 15 NRL Clubs. It's a case of do you want NZRL to be an independent test playing nation? or a member of the ARLC on the same basis as QRL & NSWRL, officially & legally coming under the ARLC is the only way you'll ever receive a grant comparable to the NSWRL & QRL. They don’t necessarily need a grant comparable with them, they just need their share of the TV money. It would be interesting to understand what that figure would equate to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 10 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: That is a fair point regarding how a potential NRL grant would be spent in the NZ. A grant would be audited and have to be spent on designated purposes that assist the grassroots game In NZ Eg: courses recruiting and training refs/coaches & initatvites to encourage kids to play rugby league in NZ. That doesn't change the fact that the people doing the auditing and designating would be the NZRL and that the NRL doesn't have any institutional power over them to influence how it's being spent. So you can say that the money would be designated to assist grassroots all you like, but if the NZRL wanted to they could designate it to giving everyone in the office a company car and a pay rise and there'd be all that anybody could do to stop it. 10 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: As I said earlier I am aware of only one instance the NRL financially assisted the NZ Schoolboys team trip to Brisbane in 2015. I stand by my earlier comments about the NRL not investing even a small % of profit back into the game on an on going basis in some from of grant, initiative, trust or program to communities in NZ that support the game. But please feel free to post any links to articles, programs and budgets that prove otherwise. I don't really know all that much specifically about the NRL's charity work, inside or outside of Australia (I don't really pay to much attention to it), but I know for a fact that it happens and that they invest quite a bit of time and money into it. I also know for a fact that NZ is specifically referenced on the NRL community website and I'd bet that if you took the time you could find articles about stuff happening in NZ. But if you can't be bothered to look you could always try asking the NRL and Warriors about charity work that they do in NZ, I'm sure they'd oblige. There's plenty of articles about work they've done (or facilitated) in the pacific as well. You also still haven't explained why the NRL should have to invest back into NZ, you've just asserted that they should have to for the always nebulous reason, that can mean whatever you want it to mean in the moment, of "for the good of the game". Well frankly giving everybody in the office at the NZRL a pay rise and a company car isn't in my opinion "for the good of the game", and unless either the NZRL comes under the ARLC's banner or the NRL started operating a rival organisation in NZ, there's no way for the NRL to prevent misappropriations of the funds. And realistically what you are asking for isn't the NRL's job anyway, it's the NZRL's job, and if they did start independently investing into grassroots in NZ you and I both know that everybody (probably including yourself) would then come out and say that they were overstepping their bounds. 10 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: NZ does not have a team in the EPL & an EPL match has never even been played in New Zealand so I do not think that the EPL has any obligation to invest anything into Soccer in NZ. No they don't have a team in NZ, however they'd still be making at least tens of millions of dollars a year in NZ, that's tens of millions of dollars they are making without investing a cent back into NZ. Why treat them differently? 10 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: The fast food restaurant you named give back to the NZ community by funding free accommodation facilities in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch for sick children and there families to stay in while the children undergo treatment in hospitals! You do realise that the amount of money that McDonald's spends on Ronald McDonald house each year would literally be less then 1% of the profit that they make each year right? Seriously using that standard the odd charity jersey that the Warriors wear would more than cover the supposed debt... But aside from that, that isn't what you are asking of the NRL, you are asking the NRL to give annual grants to what is a local competitor as price for entering the market and being successful. An equivalent to that scenario in McDonald's case would be demanding that they pay annual grants to local NZ owned and operated burgers chains. 10 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said: ARLC/NZRL/RFL/FFR13/PNGRL already share the profits or losses of international matches when two nations play each other in whichever country matches are played in and that should continue to be the case.. Sure, but the NRL don't see a cent of Kiwis merchandise sales, a ton of which is sold in Australia (maybe even more then is sold in NZ on occasion), they also don't see a cent of the money from internationals not involving the Roo's but that are still broadcast in Australia. If the NZRL is getting a cut of everything that the NRL does in NZ, then surely the NRL gets a cut of everything that the NZRL does in Australia, if not then you aren't working on a principled belief that foreign companies should have to reinvest some of their profits back into the local companies and community, and in that case you're either a hypocrite or an envious person with an agenda and an axe to grind, in which case it's not really worth discussing the subject with you because your position is basically rules for thee, but not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 3 hours ago, DoubleD said: They don’t necessarily need a grant comparable with them, they just need their share of the TV money. It would be interesting to understand what that figure would equate to Should the NRL get a share of the Super League's Australian TV rights contract? Should they get a bonus for all the Australian players, or even just players developed by the NRL and NRL clubs in general, that are playing in the RFL system? Should the RFL be expected to invest into the Australian grassroots and Australian charities because they are taking money out of the Australian market? Because using the logic that is being used to demand that the NRL payout the NZRL, the RFL owes the NRL a big check each year as well. They also owe the FFR XIII, WRL, Canadian RL, and maybe a few others, a good chunk of change each as well. So basically be careful what you wish for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 29 minutes ago, The Great Dane said: Should the NRL get a share of the Super League's Australian TV rights contract? Should they get a bonus for all the Australian players, or even just players developed by the NRL and NRL clubs in general, that are playing in the RFL system? Should the RFL be expected to invest into the Australian grassroots and Australian charities because they are taking money out of the Australian market? Because using the logic that is being used to demand that the NRL payout the NZRL, the RFL owes the NRL a big check each year as well. They also owe the FFR XIII, WRL, Canadian RL, and maybe a few others, a good chunk of change each as well. So basically be careful what you wish for... Are there any Australian clubs in SL? No. So it makes your convoluted point redundant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, DoubleD said: Are there any Australian clubs in SL? No. So it makes your convoluted point redundant It indeed does. Some of the Australians on here can never take any criticism of the NRL and the way it operates and it always makes these types of debate difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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