Teams you want to see promoted

[Gooleboy]

So where is Toulouse's big fanbase at the moment, and what did London offer last season that is so valuable?

[Trojan]

11 hours ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

Good grief, who comes up with these daft questions? Honestly, for this one , for me OLDHAM. Which club would you like to see a millionaire invest in? OLDHAM. Which club would you like to get the rub of the green? OLDHAM.  Which club would you like to see at Wembley? OLDHAM. From which town  was the the northern rugby union first run for its first 25 years? OLDHAM.

Could Oldham really recover from years of underachievement?  Huddersfield dominated the game before WWII.  They've had 20+ years in SL. They have a superb ground, but the crowds are nothing like what they were in the great days at Fartown.

[Trojan]

3 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

So where is Toulouse's big fanbase at the moment, and what did London offer last season that is so valuable?

Perhaps they'll be more inclined to turn out on  Wednesday nights?

[yipyee]

London, Bradford, Newcastle, Toulouse, and crusaders

I would like to see relegated one of wakey/Cas or a merger.

 

 

[yipyee]

4 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

So where is Toulouse's big fanbase at the moment, and what did London offer last season that is so valuable?

Catalan had an average of 300 pre SL 

They now get 300 in hospitality seats alone!!!

For toulouse There is also a RL footprint in the area and region so ready made fans and players.

They have (or did have) a reserve team and academy

Expansion isnt and cant be just a team in a random area.. it needs to be creatingva RL culture with amateur clubs and youth development 

London had players and fans from this. London hopefully inspired new players.

London can hopefully bounce back and get back in SL

[yipyee]

On 17/11/2019 at 11:14, meast said:

Out of interest, I see this phrase "would add something" floating about as much as the tiresome "bring/add nothing"

So can anyone actually tell me what exactly do certain teams "add", what is it they are "adding"? as opposed to someone like Dewsbury or Rochdale, for example, who seemingly won't  "add anything"

It's an open question, not solely meant for you, I'm just quoting you to give and example.

So if anyone can tell me what, say, Bradford or Sheffield might "add" then please do.

Similarly , what is the obsession with York these days?

In the GB team Burgess, whitehead and Bateman were all from the Bradford academy

Peacock, Pryce and many others in previous GB teams.

Since their relegation and constant problems the conveyor belt has dried up. Any players produced are only experiencing championship rugby.

So Bradford would bring international level player production AND hopefully their huge sleeping fan base.

Sheffield could expand RL to South Yorkshire. I actually met a family from sheffield who were Leeds rhinos ST holders and wasn't aware Sheffield even had a team! Sheffield did have an academy and could produce SL quality players.Sheffield is also a city and there's better sponsorship potential.

Wales.. the Welsh had a pro team for 3 years and managed to produce an academy in such a short time (5years) that produced several SL level players. Their attendances were aldo better than long established clubs. The Phoenix club also averaged 1000 in league1 won promotion and a cup and were going well till the RFL pulled the rug from under them in a league reshuffle.

Now you mention Rochdale and Dewsbury.

Rochdale in particular pick up failed SL academy players, play in a football stadium with few fans. They don't have an academy don't produce any players and are a club that take away rather than add, and here lies the problem. 

The big clubs only want clubs/teams that add to have a seat at the big boys table.

Oh and York have had a good season, built a new ground, fans are turning up and they have real momentum. Who says you cant rebuild in league 1!!

 

[Trojan]

3 hours ago, yipyee said:

In the GB team Burgess, whitehead and Bateman were all from the Bradford academy

Peacock, Pryce and many others in previous GB teams.

Since their relegation and constant problems the conveyor belt has dried up. Any players produced are only experiencing championship rugby.

So Bradford would bring international level player production AND hopefully their huge sleeping fan base.

Sheffield could expand RL to South Yorkshire. I actually met a family from sheffield who were Leeds rhinos ST holders and wasn't aware Sheffield even had a team! Sheffield did have an academy and could produce SL quality players.Sheffield is also a city and there's better sponsorship potential.

Wales.. the Welsh had a pro team for 3 years and managed to produce an academy in such a short time (5years) that produced several SL level players. Their attendances were aldo better than long established clubs. The Phoenix club also averaged 1000 in league1 won promotion and a cup and were going well till the RFL pulled the rug from under them in a league reshuffle.

Now you mention Rochdale and Dewsbury.

Rochdale in particular pick up failed SL academy players, play in a football stadium with few fans. They don't have an academy don't produce any players and are a club that take away rather than add, and here lies the problem. 

The big clubs only want clubs/teams that add to have a seat at the big boys table.

Oh and York have had a good season, built a new ground, fans are turning up and they have real momentum. Who says you cant rebuild in league 1!!

 

TBH I'd have thought that any club giving SL rejects a second chance has to be encouraged. Just because they don't make it first time, doesn't mean they don't deserve a second chance.  Ikram Butt was a Leeds reject but came to Fev and eventually played for England.

[yipyee]

1 hour ago, Trojan said:

TBH I'd have thought that any club giving SL rejects a second chance has to be encouraged. Just because they don't make it first time, doesn't mean they don't deserve a second chance.  Ikram Butt was a Leeds reject but came to Fev and eventually played for England.

Oh I totally agree, 

Zak hardaker and Alex walmsley both cut their teeth in the championship and just recently played at the highest level.

My point is the comparison as to what potential certain clubs can have at the next level. Some clubs have far more potential to step upto the next level where some clubs are at their level and are happy there. This may upset some fans in RL circles but lower league soccer fans are more level headed and are content that their club is a lower league club with their own rivalries and season targets!

[the mutt]

its official cumbria doesnt exist.well in your minds anyway. we produce excellent players,usually poached at an early age  by superleague.if we had a team in top flight even more quality comes through.seems to me you dont like the travel? cumbria is a heartland of rugby league or have you forgotten.if not  fev to go up this year they deserve it. make supergreed 4 teams bigger and join 2 championships together. have 2 up/down to keep  things fresh.whoever wins sl are the champions,like every other sport! replace play offs with a nines comp,including championship clubs.maybe i am deluded but this sport needs something drastic and quick. i would also get rid of the dead wood who make all the decisions,but i would also throw them a  nice party with jelly and bouncy castles before  i launched their rocket(destination venus).ps  shall  i take my medication nurse?

[Trojan]

2 hours ago, the mutt said:

its official cumbria doesnt exist.well in your minds anyway. we produce excellent players,usually poached at an early age  by superleague.if we had a team in top flight even more quality comes through.seems to me you dont like the travel? cumbria is a heartland of rugby league or have you forgotten.if not  fev to go up this year they deserve it. make supergreed 4 teams bigger and join 2 championships together. have 2 up/down to keep  things fresh.whoever wins sl are the champions,like every other sport! replace play offs with a nines comp,including championship clubs.maybe i am deluded but this sport needs something drastic and quick. i would also get rid of the dead wood who make all the decisions,but i would also throw them a  nice party with jelly and bouncy castles before  i launched their rocket(destination venus).ps  shall  i take my medication nurse?

Given the number of top players Cumbria produces they ought to have a club capable of hacking SL.  But unfortunately I guess Workington and Whitehaven would never be persuaded to sink their differences in a combined club. a bit like Fev and Cas.

[the mutt]

no combined cumbrian team ta,we wouldnt  know which side our jam eaters buttered on! for those not in the know Barrows now in cumbria, but i have seen a teatowel that says barrows in lancashire.cumbria incidentally is the second biggest county in england surprised noones noticed it on the map.so any 1from 3 for supergreed.

[Gav Wilson]

On 19/11/2019 at 17:36, Angelic Cynic said:

 York had one of the longest lasting owners,John Guildford,who went through a procession of head coaches but was liked by the supporters.That relationship suddenly changed during the time talks were being undertaken about sharing a new stadium with the local soccer club.

  See what happens when the new stadium 'bounce' settles down.

It's taken me 48 hours to recover from reading this post. Needed picking up off the floor and everything.

[Gav Wilson]

Anyway... I'd like to see Newcastle and Doncaster come up to the Championship (and hope York & London stay in).

Would make for some decent East Coast Mainline derbies at the LNER Community Stadium!  

[Angelic Cynic]

1 hour ago, Gav Wilson said:

It's taken me 48 hours to recover from reading this post. Needed picking up off the floor and everything.

  I'd best not mention the uncertainty of continued success at a new stadium,then.

   I was just reminded when a soccer manager was sacked the other night.

   https://www.theguardian.com/football/the-agony-and-the-ecstasy/2016/dec/03/west-ham-arsenal-football-clubs-move-grounds-stadiums

   Still,all clubs and supporters should always be optimistic for a new season ahead...

[Manfred Mann]

On 20/11/2019 at 03:16, Gooleboy said:

So where is Toulouse's big fanbase at the moment, and what did London offer last season that is so valuable?

When Toulouse played Toronto at Stade Ernest Wallon, they attracted over 6,000 fans. If they were in Super League, playing at that stadium (which they would be) we could expect at least such crowds, probably more, on a regular basis.

London cannot attract many fans at it current stadium. But if it could find a larger better stadium, and funds for marketing, it could attract many more people. But in any case if London is doing well in Super League, the team is an inspiration and aspiration for young rugby league players in southern England.

[AB Knight]

On 19/11/2019 at 09:55, meast said:

I agree with you and like i say, I've nothing against York and believe they are on solid ground and on the up, but just not the games saviour like a lot seem to think.

My comments about Huddersfield were mainly because, when we've offered cheap deals or tried gimmicks or tried to something positive and attract people, it's usually because we are desperate and are tinpot and shouldn't be doing certain things, Salford the same, although Salford may be granted a reprieve after last year.

As I've said, good luck to York.

The only occasions I’ve seen digs about Huddersfield are their attendances, cowbell and cheap season tickets.

Attendances as I’ve said before aren’t actually that bad. Last time I looked they weren’t far behind Cas in terms of home support!

The cowbell is annoying but best of luck to him. Bit concerned though when the guy says his arm is in a lot of pain after a game, that’s a sign of carpal tunnel or other injury, which will only get worse over time. I’m a drummer and was heading that way before I relearned my technique  

Cheap season tickets is a bugbear of mine but clubs have their reasons. I know it was a while back when Hudds offered cheap season tickets (was it through the RFL?), I won’t embarrass myself as I don’t remember the details. 

Best of luck to Huddersfield anyway.

[meast]

On 20/11/2019 at 07:56, Manfred Mann said:

Toulouse, London, Bradford and Newcastle are the only clubs that would offer something valuable to Super League.

Toulouse and Bradford would each have a large fan base, while London and Newcastle could have large fan bases if well marketed, winning games,  and playing in decent stadiums. But equally important the latter two are strategically located far from the M62, giving the game a more national appearance.

Toulouse's promotion would help build the game in France, which is very important, and may also result in a television deal with Catalans that could provide one home game in France on television every weekend.

What would they offer exactly?

Free tickets to every other spectator? Limitless supply of refreshments? World class academy players that others can buy for £1?

Free transport from door to door for everyone who buys a programme? a £10 million TV deal for primetime Saturday night TV?

Packed stadiums? a 5 year waiting list for season tickets?

 

I wish someone would actually tell me what this magical "offering something" was rather than the usual bandwagon 'hip talk'.

As it stands, none of those clubs offer anything to Super League because they aren't in Super League and apart from London, are nowhere near to Super League, yet Salford, Wakefield, Huddersfield actually DO offer something as they are in it because they deserve to be in it.

[meast]

On 20/11/2019 at 12:53, yipyee said:

In the GB team Burgess, whitehead and Bateman were all from the Bradford academy

Peacock, Pryce and many others in previous GB teams.

Since their relegation and constant problems the conveyor belt has dried up. Any players produced are only experiencing championship rugby.

So Bradford would bring international level player production AND hopefully their huge sleeping fan base.

Sheffield could expand RL to South Yorkshire. I actually met a family from sheffield who were Leeds rhinos ST holders and wasn't aware Sheffield even had a team! Sheffield did have an academy and could produce SL quality players.Sheffield is also a city and there's better sponsorship potential.

Wales.. the Welsh had a pro team for 3 years and managed to produce an academy in such a short time (5years) that produced several SL level players. Their attendances were aldo better than long established clubs. The Phoenix club also averaged 1000 in league1 won promotion and a cup and were going well till the RFL pulled the rug from under them in a league reshuffle.

Now you mention Rochdale and Dewsbury.

Rochdale in particular pick up failed SL academy players, play in a football stadium with few fans. They don't have an academy don't produce any players and are a club that take away rather than add, and here lies the problem. 

The big clubs only want clubs/teams that add to have a seat at the big boys table.

Oh and York have had a good season, built a new ground, fans are turning up and they have real momentum. Who says you cant rebuild in league 1!!

 

Bradford DID bring international level players over 10 years ago, Bradford DID have a big fanbase 10 years ago, before that they were struggling to attract even the same averages as Huddersfield and Wakefield get now in a ramshackle stadium that has hardly been touched in 30 years,  they HAD a huge fanbase because of the success they couldn't afford that they are sadly now paying for in different way, now they have a hardcore of around 3-4,000, will those fans ever come back again should Bradford somehow stop being a basket case and rebuild back to the heady bullmania days?

It's all based on the past and the possibles not the actual here and now.

Of course any club can build and get the right sort of backers to get into SL, Toronto, Leigh and to a point, my own club showed that, but my point is that none of the clubs mentioned "offer" anything apart either past glories or the fact that they are deemed by many to be a "saviour club".

I would love nothing better for our game to have 20-25 strong, well supported, well financed clubs who could all compete year to year to get into SL, sadly the reality is that there are probably only 4 or 5, and Bradford, Toulouse, London, York and Newcastle to name 4 are nowhere near even the struggling SL clubs.

[meast]

On 20/11/2019 at 17:57, the mutt said:

its official cumbria doesnt exist.well in your minds anyway. we produce excellent players,usually poached at an early age  by superleague.if we had a team in top flight even more quality comes through.seems to me you dont like the travel? cumbria is a heartland of rugby league or have you forgotten.if not  fev to go up this year they deserve it. make supergreed 4 teams bigger and join 2 championships together. have 2 up/down to keep  things fresh.whoever wins sl are the champions,like every other sport! replace play offs with a nines comp,including championship clubs.maybe i am deluded but this sport needs something drastic and quick. i would also get rid of the dead wood who make all the decisions,but i would also throw them a  nice party with jelly and bouncy castles before  i launched their rocket(destination venus).ps  shall  i take my medication nurse?

Again, I would love to see a team from Cumbria step up and challenge for the top, I remember when Workington had their successful spell in the mid 90's they had a big support from an area steeped in RL history, took big,noisy,travelling support with them, have some very good amateur clubs and produce some very good players, Whitehaven, Barrow and Carlisle also had big crowds when having some relative success, Whitehaven-Workington derbies used to attract massive crowds of 4,000 upwards.

Sadly, at the moment there isn't a club in Cumbria that are anywhere near stepping up, the derbies are played in front of 1,000 diehards, the 3 Cumbrian clubs between them attract around 2,000 fans, none of the grounds are fit for SL, although I personally would have no problem with either 3 of the grounds, or Brunton Park.

And as far as I'm aware there are no plans for a merged or "manufactured" Cumbrian club or that there would even be any support for it from fans of the 3 clubs.

[meast]

On 22/11/2019 at 11:52, AB Knight said:

The only occasions I’ve seen digs about Huddersfield are their attendances, cowbell and cheap season tickets.

Attendances as I’ve said before aren’t actually that bad. Last time I looked they weren’t far behind Cas in terms of home support!

The cowbell is annoying but best of luck to him. Bit concerned though when the guy says his arm is in a lot of pain after a game, that’s a sign of carpal tunnel or other injury, which will only get worse over time. I’m a drummer and was heading that way before I relearned my technique  

Cheap season tickets is a bugbear of mine but clubs have their reasons. I know it was a while back when Hudds offered cheap season tickets (was it through the RFL?), I won’t embarrass myself as I don’t remember the details. 

Best of luck to Huddersfield anyway.

It's become the norm to slaughter Huddersfield for their low, sparse or seemingly non existent crowds, based upon the amount of empty seats, most people seem to forget, conveniently or otherwise that we have a 24,500 seat stadium, so our ground will always look empty regardless of the crowd, yet put our crowds at Wakefield or Castleford's ground and it will be a "packed house" and atmospheric etc, it's just the way it is now, it's become ingrained into most RL fans mindsets that even if we pulled in 12-15,000, we'd still have "###### support" because of the empty seats.

The cheap season tickets are from our owner, who contributes massively and heroically in trying to make us succesful and more sustainable, sadly i can't ever see that happening, but he is determined to try and build the fanbase, sadly, the people of Huddersfield have shown that they don't care enough for RL or the Giants.

And the cowbell, well, it's not just one cowbell, it's many of them, played by many different people now, mainly children, it used to be my nephew but he's grown up a bit and doesn't do it anymore, not helped by the amount of abuse he received either, quite sad, but that's life.

[yipyee]

On 20/11/2019 at 20:42, the mutt said:

no combined cumbrian team ta,we wouldnt  know which side our jam eaters buttered on! for those not in the know Barrows now in cumbria, but i have seen a teatowel that says barrows in lancashire.cumbria incidentally is the second biggest county in england surprised noones noticed it on the map.so any 1from 3 for supergreed.

I would combine all of Cumbria not just the 2 jam eater clubs.

This however would never happen as the home support would not travel to watch the home team. Shame really.

Also half of Cumbria play the other code. As this is the case I don't think it can be considered a 'heartland' 

[yipyee]

10 hours ago, meast said:

It's become the norm to slaughter Huddersfield for their low, sparse or seemingly non existent crowds, based upon the amount of empty seats, most people seem to forget, conveniently or otherwise that we have a 24,500 seat stadium, so our ground will always look empty regardless of the crowd, yet put our crowds at Wakefield or Castleford's ground and it will be a "packed house" and atmospheric etc, it's just the way it is now, it's become ingrained into most RL fans mindsets that even if we pulled in 12-15,000, we'd still have "###### support" because of the empty seats.

The cheap season tickets are from our owner, who contributes massively and heroically in trying to make us succesful and more sustainable, sadly i can't ever see that happening, but he is determined to try and build the fanbase, sadly, the people of Huddersfield have shown that they don't care enough for RL or the Giants.

And the cowbell, well, it's not just one cowbell, it's many of them, played by many different people now, mainly children, it used to be my nephew but he's grown up a bit and doesn't do it anymore, not helped by the amount of abuse he received either, quite sad, but that's life.

Kids are the future. They will come as adults and bring their kids and the numbers will grow.

Your attendances have trebled but as you say goes unnoticed.

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, yipyee said:

I would combine all of Cumbria not just the 2 jam eater clubs.

This however would never happen as the home support would not travel to watch the home team. Shame really.

Also half of Cumbria play the other code. As this is the case I don't think it can be considered a 'heartland' 

33 miles from Barrow to Haven , so it isn't happening 

[yipyee]

5 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

33 miles from Barrow to Haven , so it isn't happening 

Yet many fans travel further to watch their team with people from Cumbria traveling all the way to Wigan and st helens to watch regular SL??

[Harry Stottle]

Not one nominee for Leigh, could I remind people that in the 2017 SL season they averaged 6,500 with very little travelling fans coming to the LSV - no Railway Station, remember - save for Saints who were North of 2,000.

6,500 average a figure that a lot of clubs could not get, even some present SL clubs would be ecstatic with that number.

Then there are the travelling fans Leigh takes to away games, I am useually one of those travellers but I do not go to other grounds when Leigh are not playing, perhaps some supporters from other clubs would like to give an honest assessment in comparing Leigh's away support with other clubs travelling support to their grounds, please.