Manu Tuilagi in serious talks with Toronto Wolfpack

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, AB90 said:

It's not that simple. Sam Burgess played inside centre in union (the same position as majority of Tuilagis England caps) Burgess is a prop foward/lock in league. Put Sam Burgess at centre in the nrl he would get burnt left, right and centre and look very ordinary in defence.

So your saying an international RU centre has no chance of being able to cope with playing there in RL,I seem to recall people saying the same about Gibbs,Bateman etc when they switched codes,they were probably same people who said Jonathan Davies was too small and lacked the defensive skills to play RL.

Lets judge players on their own merits rather than the fact they play another code.

[GUBRATS]

6 hours ago, Davo5 said:

So your saying an international RU centre has no chance of being able to cope with playing there in RL,I seem to recall people saying the same about Gibbs,Bateman etc when they switched codes,they were probably same people who said Jonathan Davies was too small and lacked the defensive skills to play RL.

Lets judge players on their own merits rather than the fact they play another code.

Yes ,but , it's the associated risk considering the money involved 

[The Future is League]

I would suggest that in the unlikely event of Tuilagi of switching codes he would play in the 2nd row, and one thing we are not short of in Rugby League is 2nd rowers, plus SBW will be playing 2nd row as well for Wolfpack. I really can't see any value in signing him.

If Toronto want to sign a union player who could play Centre in Rugby League and stand up and make people notice in the UK i would suggest England Captain Owen Farrell, and Farrell in my opinion would make an outstanding loose forward in Rugby League.

If Toronto want to sign a player who would make everybody in union stand up and take notice worldwide of Rugby League sign the South African captain.

[The Future is League]

7 minutes ago, Celt said:

Interesting. I figured he would be a middle unit forward (prop). Just given his size, mobility, limited experience, scope to rotate him etc. Plus, as you say,SBW will be playing on the edge so less requirement to sign another second row.

His size playing in the 2nd row with SBW and already front rowers on the field would give Toronto a massive pack, but i repeat "Its very unlikely to happen"

[Dave T]

10 hours ago, Davo5 said:

So your saying an international RU centre has no chance of being able to cope with playing there in RL,I seem to recall people saying the same about Gibbs,Bateman etc when they switched codes,they were probably same people who said Jonathan Davies was too small and lacked the defensive skills to play RL.

Lets judge players on their own merits rather than the fact they play another code.

Whilst I agree with your general point, I don't think you have used the best examples tbh. 

Bateman was outstanding, and possibly the best defensive centre I have ever seen in RL, so he gets a massive tick. Nothing ever got past him.

But we can't say the same for the other two. Gibbs struggled in defence, and with only being there a couple of years he didn't ever really look comfortable position-wise. 

Davies was an absolute turnstyle. And it should be remembered that he was in there for his unbelievable attack. But his defence was car-crash stuff at times. Great player and all, but we shouldn't ignore his weaknesses, in just the same way that Lee Briers was a great RL player, but not a great defender.

I think there is a genuine point about how Tuliagi would go in centre in RL, it is a different role to RU. But he is a quality athlete and if fit would be a valuable player wherever his best position ended up being.

[Davo5]

2 hours ago, The Future is League said:

His size playing in the 2nd row with SBW and already front rowers on the field would give Toronto a massive pack, but i repeat "Its very unlikely to happen"

Even less likely if he thought he was going to end up as a backrower.

[Cheshire Setter]

3 hours ago, The Future is League said:

If Toronto want to sign a union player who could play Centre in Rugby League and stand up and make people notice in the UK i would suggest England Captain Owen Farrell, and Farrell in my opinion would make an outstanding loose forward in Rugby League.

I think we’re also talking about different reasons for signing players here...   I’m sure Toronto want the best players available in whichever position.  To do this all they have to do is raid the NRL for proven quality league players.

But this isn’t about whether Player X will convert well, it’s just about raising the profile of the club by making waves.   If they have the money to risk then that’s up to them.   I would want my club Warrington to sign the best league players, but I can totally understand the publicity And marketing reasons behind what Toronto are doing and I hoe we benefit as a sport.

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Bateman was outstanding, and possibly the best defensive centre I have ever seen in RL

Indeed.   I have a little cry every time I see an opposition player ghost through our right centre channel, and think of how Bateman would have mopped them up one-on-one

[GUBRATS]

47 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

I think we’re also talking about different reasons for signing players here...   I’m sure Toronto want the best players available in whichever position.  To do this all they have to do is raid the NRL for proven quality league players.

But this isn’t about whether Player X will convert well, it’s just about raising the profile of the club by making waves.   If they have the money to risk then that’s up to them.   I would want my club Warrington to sign the best league players, but I can totally understand the publicity And marketing reasons behind what Toronto are doing and I hoe we benefit as a sport.

Indeed.   I have a little cry every time I see an opposition player ghost through our right centre channel, and think of how Bateman would have mopped them up one-on-one

Yes , but they can only use up a certain amount of money on ' profile ' before they end up getting relegated , Sonny Bill we know ( providing he can stay on the field ) can do a job in SL , Tuilagi ? We don't , and again that is providing he can stay fit ? , Toronto's squad is shallow on numbers , they need to have some balance between quality/profile and actual enough players to get through a season , all within the salary cap

[Cheshire Setter]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes , but they can only use up a certain amount of money on ' profile ' before they end up getting relegated

I agree.   That’s why it’s a risk.   I wouldn’t want my club to do it, but maybe Toronto are expecting franchising and assured league status to come back into the reckoning rather than P&R.   

[Rupert Prince]

23 hours ago, TIWIT said:

You can plough as much as you like into player development but in the end what keeps a lad striving to become a full-time professional is being able to make a decent living at it. A low salary cap discourages this, hence the ongoing problems recruiting top-level players. "Show me the money!"

Manchester United spend a fortune on developing young players, but not only do they still pay huge wages for overseas players, they also spend a fortune on transfers.  Only a few of their youth team make it to the full team.

[Bob8]

4 hours ago, Cheshire Setter said:

I think we’re also talking about different reasons for signing players here...   I’m sure Toronto want the best players available in whichever position.  To do this all they have to do is raid the NRL for proven quality league players.

But this isn’t about whether Player X will convert well, it’s just about raising the profile of the club by making waves.   If they have the money to risk then that’s up to them.   I would want my club Warrington to sign the best league players, but I can totally understand the publicity And marketing reasons behind what Toronto are doing and I hoe we benefit as a sport.

Indeed.   I have a little cry every time I see an opposition player ghost through our right centre channel, and think of how Bateman would have mopped them up one-on-one

Toronto have a challenge.

They need three things from big names, to provide quality to the team, to attract other players by showing they are serious, and attracting market. Frankly, there will have to be a compromise between these things.

[Scubby]

Toronto would have been pushing the top half of SL with last year's squad. People need to get realistic about the standard of SL - especially at the bottom end. 

[dkw]

Toronto are looking after the squad, just announced the signing of James cunningham and Brad Singleton. 

[TIWIT]

8 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes , but they can only use up a certain amount of money on ' profile ' before they end up getting relegated , Sonny Bill we know ( providing he can stay on the field ) can do a job in SL , Tuilagi ? We don't , and again that is providing he can stay fit ? , Toronto's squad is shallow on numbers , they need to have some balance between quality/profile and actual enough players to get through a season , all within the salary cap

TWP are not going to be relegated.

[TIWIT]

6 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Manchester United spend a fortune on developing young players, but not only do they still pay huge wages for overseas players, they also spend a fortune on transfers.  Only a few of their youth team make it to the full team.

Kids start playing sports because it's fun. As they get older and they discover they have a talent for the game, no matter what game it is, they start to dream of making a living at it. But it has to be a decent living because careers are short and there are no guarantees.

The salary cap in SL is so low that far too many talented young lads can't take the risk and so stay semi-pro, playing for the local team on weekends. But if the cap was raised some of the more talented might go full-time pro.

Or get rid of the perennial bottom-feeders in SL and replace them with teams that will spend to the cap and again some of more talented might go full-time.

[Gooleboy]

8 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Kids start playing sports because it's fun. As they get older and they discover they have a talent for the game, no matter what game it is, they start to dream of making a living at it. But it has to be a decent living because careers are short and there are no guarantees.

The salary cap in SL is so low that far too many talented young lads can't take the risk and so stay semi-pro, playing for the local team on weekends. But if the cap was raised some of the more talented might go full-time pro.

Or get rid of the perennial bottom-feeders in SL and replace them with teams that will spend to the cap and again some of more talented might go full-time.

Which Clubs would you replace and with who?

[M j M]

I've no idea who this player is as such, but I've heard the name on occasion when I've been unable to avoid BBC news union segments and my only thought has ever been, what relation is he to Fereti?

[Futtocks]

On 20/11/2019 at 14:40, Dunbar said:

I think we are underestimating the ability of top quality professional Union players to come over to League. There are plenty of examples of world class players who made the transition before Union went openly professional. And even there was a 'boot money' culture the playing and coaching side was completely amateur.  And yet they development into top class League players.

Plenty of examples of international-standard RU players who made the switch and were found wanting, too. And back in the day, with the hateful and preposterous life ban for any contact with RL, I salute their courage in giving it a go. It wasn't just the sport they were leaving behind, but the social fabric of it and the significant money that they absolutely positively definitely didn't get paid for playing RU but somehow ended up in their pockets anyway.

Their starting levels of fitness are far higher these days, which is a big plus, but still. There's much more to it, or John "the world's #1 Rugby player" Gallagher would now be a Leeds and Kiwis legend.

[graveyard johnny]

craig innes and simon irving 2 great ru signings for leeds  both centres, irving got a reputation as been one of the hardest tackling centres of that era.

[westside]

28 minutes ago, M j M said:

I've no idea who this player is as such, but I've heard the name on occasion when I've been unable to avoid BBC news union segments and my only thought has ever been, what relation is he to Fereti?

Younger brother. There are six Tuilagi brothers who have played pro rugby.

[TIWIT]

47 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Which Clubs would you replace and with who?

Any club that argues increasing the salary cap will drive them into bankruptcy. If maintaining an artificially-low salary cap is all that keeps a club in business then perhaps that club deserves to go out of business. Or in this case, get out of SL and let a club in that has the cash.

[The Future is League]

12 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Even less likely if he thought he was going to end up as a backrower.

He would see more of the ball as a backrower in Rugby League than he would a centre in union

[Futtocks]

5 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

He would see more of the ball as a backrower in Rugby League than he would a centre in union

So, clearly, he can't kick.

[Davo5]

6 hours ago, The Future is League said:

He would see more of the ball as a backrower in Rugby League than he would a centre in union

He would see more of the ball as a centre in RL than he does in Union,at 28 and with his injury record he wouldn't be coming to play in the forwards.

[dealwithit]

10 hours ago, TIWIT said:

Any club that argues increasing the salary cap will drive them into bankruptcy. If maintaining an artificially-low salary cap is all that keeps a club in business then perhaps that club deserves to go out of business. Or in this case, get out of SL and let a club in that has the cash.

Ridiculous.