Mal Meninga: "We're playing the right amount of games"

[MatthewWoody]

51 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

So, you’re trying to back it up with a result years ago played in England, in which zero players were Scottish born. Thank you again.

Having no funding, no development coaches, very few amateur clubs and having to spend thousands on stadium rent, player costs etc for a group of English lads is forbidding local development. 

You're simply lying

[jim_57]

I think we should bin every nation who hasn't made a complete success of themselves by now, if they haven't already when are they ever going to? There goes every country but Australia.

Who's "we" you ask? Well us who have nothing to do with it and contribute 0 to helping the people that are working hard (probably for free or close to it) to run RL in these countries.

[Dave T]

I think there is a point about applying some minimum standards to allow teams to compete in the World Cup. But then we were meant to do that anyway. Allowing nations to ignore minimum standards because we are impatient is an issue. 

I have no issue with heritage players, but 25 years after that emerging World Cup the likes of Scotland are smaller than ever.

There has to be a plan on growing interest in those nations. Otherwise it is all shallow.

[Dave T]

18 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I don't think their should be any minimum standards really bar putting a squad of 17 qualified players on an RL pitch. 

Internationals and world cups especially are often the catalyst for getting people involved. It's the spark that things grow from.

What there needs to be is a better ladder and a better mix. We need the highest level elites, heritage, we need domestics, amateur pathways and everything in between

The minimum standards I refer to are around the domestic game. I agree that these tournaments and Test teams can be used as a driver for growth, but without any kind of demands on these governing bodies, these things are not materialising. 

I believe there should be a genuine attempt to set up a home base for all WC competing nations. I am very happy to use the Test teams as a promotional tool for the development, but I am not a fan of teams being created, managed and playing in Sydney with no links whatsoever to the nation they represent.

I am also very frustrated with the lack of progress in the likes of Scotland, although there appears to be some very welcome developments over the last year or so. Just recently it has been announced that a small handful of schools in Scotland will have RL taught as part of the curriculum. 

[Dave T]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

Lebanon basically started in sydney before growing in lebanon, the seedlings of Jamaica were in the north of England. 

I'm fine with them starting and international level and moving towards domestic competitions, hell it's what New Zealand did before spreading it to the southern hemisphere a hundred years ago.

Any RL played under any flag is a good thing in my opinion. Certainly better than not playing at all which is often the alternative. 

The only issue I see is the lack of pathway for showing improvements in domestic development as countries like france get a bit swamped by heritage teams. But I think not having these nations play means not having any activity there and that cure would be worse than the disease

As I say, in principle, I agree with using Test teams in this way. What I then don't agree with is any real lack of plan to capitalise on this and really accelerate that growth in those nations.

Living in Scotland I have a bigger interest in the Scotland team, and I've really enjoyed following them over the last decade. And tbh, the Test team has done quite well. 2 World Cups in Oz where they didn't show themselves up, and they did very well in the 2013 WC in the UK. They also did brilliantly in the Four Nations.  Yet we see missed opportunities and despite these real highs the game has not grown on the back of any of these successes. I know that is typical of RL, but we should be demanding better than that.

But as we know, investment is key. It is no coincidence that the game in Scotland was stronger when they hosted Challenge Cup Finals, Magic Weekends and SL on the Road games. At work I still know locals whose only knowledge of RL is from Magic Weekend at Murrayfield.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

As I say, in principle, I agree with using Test teams in this way. What I then don't agree with is any real lack of plan to capitalise on this and really accelerate that growth in those nations.

Living in Scotland I have a bigger interest in the Scotland team, and I've really enjoyed following them over the last decade. And tbh, the Test team has done quite well. 2 World Cups in Oz where they didn't show themselves up, and they did very well in the 2013 WC in the UK. They also did brilliantly in the Four Nations.  Yet we see missed opportunities and despite these real highs the game has not grown on the back of any of these successes. I know that is typical of RL, but we should be demanding better than that.

But as we know, investment is key. It is no coincidence that the game in Scotland was stronger when they hosted Challenge Cup Finals, Magic Weekends and SL on the Road games. At work I still know locals whose only knowledge of RL is from Magic Weekend at Murrayfield.

From your perspective living up there, if there was a really well promoted and marketed Euro tournament with Scotland playing their fixtures out of a half decent stadium in Glasgow or Edinburgh (e.g. Tynecastle), what sort of attendance do you think they could get for a game against England?

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

From your perspective living up there, if there was a really well promoted and marketed Euro tournament with Scotland playing their fixtures out of a half decent stadium in Glasgow or Edinburgh (e.g. Tynecastle), what sort of attendance do you think they could get for a game against England?

Well I went to the gams they staged in Galashiels, and there was a peak of 1,600 on a random Friday night with no promotion and noise around it.

I could see a well organised, invested-in tournament delivering solid crowds. It's hard to put a number on it, but I think we should be getting to a point where 5k should be the kind of standard Test crowd, but that will only happen with any kind of consistency.

A lot of Scottish sports fans are surprising open-minded to RL I have found.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well I went to the gams they staged in Galashiels, and there was a peak of 1,600 on a random Friday night with no promotion and noise around it.

I could see a well organised, invested-in tournament delivering solid crowds. It's hard to put a number on it, but I think we should be getting to a point where 5k should be the kind of standard Test crowd, but that will only happen with any kind of consistency.

A lot of Scottish sports fans are surprising open-minded to RL I have found.

That's good to know. I just wish the powers-that-be would look at the bigger picture and explore the potential of a Euro tournament, as I'm a firm believer that it could have a hugely positive impact on the profile and domestic scenes in the other home nations.

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

That's good to know. I just wish the powers-that-be would look at the bigger picture and explore the potential of a Euro tournament, as I'm a firm believer that it could have a hugely positive impact on the profile and domestic scenes in the other home nations.

The thing on a Euro comp is that with a proper well organised tournament we should be starting off with 10k crowds (plus) in England and France from day one. We should then be looking at 2-5k in the other nations and growing from there. 

That really shouldn't be beyond us.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

33 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The thing on a Euro comp is that with a proper well organised tournament we should be starting off with 10k crowds (plus) in England and France from day one. We should then be looking at 2-5k in the other nations and growing from there. 

That really shouldn't be beyond us.

Agreed. Plus if it was properly promoted and organised well in advance, I would expect the prospect of England away games in places like Dublin and Edinburgh would be fairly appealing for travelling supporters to make a weekend of it. Games at Galashiels in the middle of nowhere aren't likely to have the same pull (although I'm sure it's a lovely place).

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I think that's much less than we would get. We get 1-2k when we half ###### it with 2nd tier teams in 2nd tier events.

England have gotten 25k v ireland, france nearly 20k v england. 

Yup, I expect my numbers are very modest, but even with those kind of numbers as a starting point that should be seen as relative success. And it does depend on whether it is a Magic style event - because sitting in a ground for double/triple headers in winter is not the best solution, but I'd love it in June.

We don't always get 1-2k when we half-ass it, that's sort of my point, we got 300 in Scotland this year, and I've been to a few 5-800 games, so getting to 5k regularly (for standalone games) is a step forward. 

If we had:

Scotland v Ireland (5k in Glasgow/Edinburgh)

Wales v Italy (5k in Cardiff/Swansea) 

France v England (15k in Toulouse)

that is great progress. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

45 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I think the benefit of a magic type series would be it would 

Wales v England in Cardiff or Swansea

Ireland v England in Dublin

France v England in Toulouse 

Personally I think you are looking 10-15k for those games singularly. Make it a magic type event (or even 1 game friday night in a small stadium, triple header Saturday as the main event) and you should be looking at least 15-20k. Probably more. Build it up and then you can sell your stand along events on the back of it.

The only issue with a magic type series with double headers, is that if it is a 4-team tournament, then one of the teams misses out on a home game. I think England should play at least one of the games at home (providing it's somewhere a bit more ambitious than Leigh Sports Village...).

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Two tiers of 4, let's say england, france, wales, ireland, then Scotland, italy, greece, Serbia,

3 round series, wales, ireland, France hosting with host country playing england 

Then england hosts grand final for tier 1 first and second, promotion final for tier 2 first and second and relegation play offs for 3rd and 4th in both tiers. 

Sounds like it's got potential to me. Not sure how the finals event would work. Split over 2 days? If so, one of the days is a much tougher sell.

The other issue would be if England ended up spanking everyone in the group stage, then that might make the final a tougher sell full stop.