RugbyLeagueGeek Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Just now, Eddie said: It doesn’t really, London’s tiny crowds may have doubled but they are still tiny and the increase was primarily due to away fans. None of that supports the idea that Toulouse will get big crowds if they ever get into SL. So why did you provide London as an example then? Something tells me that no argument or evidence will change your mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Southerner80 said: TO I think had a game or two with 6000 people there last season so given SL status an average gate of 5000 is not unrealistic as a minimum. And that would be fairly consistent with the percentage increase that London experienced when they got in to SL this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said: So why did you provide London as an example then? Something tells me that no argument or evidence will change your mind... It was my example of how going into SL doesn’t necessarily mean big crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Eddie said: It was my example of how going into SL doesn’t necessarily mean big crowds. But your example does equate to an approx 135% increase in crowds. If you don't like that example then come up with a different one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said: But your example does equate to an approx 135% increase in crowds. If you don't like that example then come up with a different one. I don’t need to. A 135% increase in not very much is still a small crowd, especially in a massive global city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daddy Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, Eddie said: It doesn’t really, London’s tiny crowds may have doubled but they are still tiny and the increase was primarily due to away fans. None of that supports the idea that Toulouse will get big crowds if they ever get into SL. Toulouse's union team averaged 18,000 last season. They are a long established club in the best supported domestic rugby competition in the world. Toulouse FC, a long established top flight football team (France’s most popular spectator sport) averaged 16,000. What makes anyone think the League team will ever average anything more than about 5,000 if they go up is beyond me. More nonsense from you. Have a day off will you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Eddie said: I don’t need to. A 135% increase in not very much is still a small crowd, especially in a massive global city. But it would turn a 2k crowd into a 4.7k crowd for Toulouse. Hence why your original statement about them playing in front of 2k crowds in SL was disingenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said: But it would turn a 2k crowd into a 4.7k crowd for Toulouse. Hence why your original statement about them playing in front of 2k crowds in SL was disingenuous. It wouldn’t though, it’s not as easy to get to Toulouse from the N of England as it is to get to London, so fewer away fans would go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Daddy said: More nonsense from you. Have a day off will you. Where is the nonsense there? I’d love to see a thriving Toulouse in SL as much as everyone else, I just don’t share some people’s view that they are the answer to all our problems. If we are hanging our hopes on a team who struggle to attract 2,000 fans currently, then the game really is stuffed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Eddie said: I’d love to see a thriving Toulouse in SL as much as everyone else, I just don’t share some people’s view that they are the answer to all our problems. If we are hanging our hopes on a team who struggle to attract 2,000 fans currently, then the game really is stuffed. This is a very distorted interpretation of the content of this thread. You may find it beneficial to have a read back through to help you understand it. Literally nobody has suggested "that they are the answer to all our problems". However, it has been suggested that having Toulouse in SL alongside Catalans may provide French broadcasters with a more attractive TV package. I didn't realise that this would be such a contentious concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daddy Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, Eddie said: Where is the nonsense there? I’d love to see a thriving Toulouse in SL as much as everyone else, I just don’t share some people’s view that they are the answer to all our problems. If we are hanging our hopes on a team who struggle to attract 2,000 fans currently, then the game really is stuffed. Your comments are so devoid of facts that they're not even worth challenging it's just nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said: This is a very distorted interpretation of the content of this thread. You may find it beneficial to have a read back through to help you understand it. Literally nobody has suggested "that they are the answer to all our problems". However, it has been suggested that having Toulouse in SL alongside Catalans may provide French broadcasters with a more attractive TV package. I didn't realise that this would be such a contentious concept. It's not. 2 French teams would just be finally fulfilling the original vision for Super League. It would undoubtedly make it more attractive to French TV broadcasters too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 48 minutes ago, The Daddy said: Your comments are so devoid of facts that they're not even worth challenging it's just nonsense Bizarre, my comment that you quoted was full of facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 49 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said: This is a very distorted interpretation of the content of this thread. You may find it beneficial to have a read back through to help you understand it. Literally nobody has suggested "that they are the answer to all our problems". However, it has been suggested that having Toulouse in SL alongside Catalans may provide French broadcasters with a more attractive TV package. I didn't realise that this would be such a contentious concept. My original point was that I don’t think french broadcasters will be attracted by the prospect of screening Toulouse games played out in front of 2,000 people. It was you who then diverted the subject. But anyway I can’t be arsed to carry on the conversation and I doubt if you can either so we’ll have to agree to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Eddie said: Televising Toulouse playing in front of 2,000 people wouldn’t be that appealing to a broadcaster either. They don't even get two thousand for some games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said: London's regular season crowds increased by approx 135% in 2019 compared to 2018, so yes. As well as London did last season on the pitch, their crowds were pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 36 minutes ago, Eddie said: Where is the nonsense there? I’d love to see a thriving Toulouse in SL as much as everyone else, I just don’t share some people’s view that they are the answer to all our problems. If we are hanging our hopes on a team who struggle to attract 2,000 fans currently, then the game really is stuffed. If Toulouse get in to SL on merit, good luck to them. But some on here seem to think that there are thousands of new fans waiting to go and see them. Surely when they were in the Play Offs last season, some of these fans should have been having a look as they were only one win off the Grand Final, but they still stayed away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said: This is a very distorted interpretation of the content of this thread. You may find it beneficial to have a read back through to help you understand it. Literally nobody has suggested "that they are the answer to all our problems". However, it has been suggested that having Toulouse in SL alongside Catalans may provide French broadcasters with a more attractive TV package. I didn't realise that this would be such a contentious concept. It would be nice for Mr Elstone to come out and tell us, if it is true that SL turned a deal down, and if so why? In the LE this morning, the Wigan Chairman was saying Mr Elstone has taken the SL Competition forward by 60% since his appointment. Well, if that is the case it must have been in a hell of a mess when he took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Celt said: Interesting. Any idea why? (ie what the reasoning was?) Thanks It would seem that Bein were unwilling to pay more than they had been..... https://media.sportbusiness.com/news/bein-sports-turns-back-on-super-league/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 4 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said: Is the solution to get Toulouse in to SL in order to guarantee a French home game every week and therefore regular content? And also do we need to consider ring-fencing the competition again? It strikes me that this is the sort of thing that we can't moan about if we aren't providing broadcasters with a suitably attractive proposition to fill their schedules. Not least because the nature of P&R means that we can't guarantee that there will be any French team in SL in 2021. If we want better commercial deals then we have to start thinking far more strategically. Shoehorning an anti-P&R agenda into this is pretty weak tbh. It's just another example of the SL clubs and their exec, who demanded control of things from the RFL, doing a worse job. It's not easy and it was never easy running Rugby League; there's much more potential to emerge with failure than with success and this is another example of that - albeit this one is worse than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 25 minutes ago, Gooleboy said: If Toulouse get in to SL on merit, good luck to them. But some on here seem to think that there are thousands of new fans waiting to go and see them. This argument is based on the fact that there is copious evidence to suggest that clubs tend to attract more supporters in SL compared to the Championship. Leigh's average attendance in the 2017 SL was 55% higher (6.5k) compared to compared to the 2016 Championship (4.2k). As previously stated, London's average last season was 135% higher than the previous season. Widnes's crowds went up from 3.7k to almost 6k when they were first admitted to SL. My guess - based on the available evidence that I have at my disposal - is that Toulouse's crowds would go up significantly if they went up to SL. What evidence are you basing your arguments on? More to the point of the thread, if you do not believe that Toulouse's entry to SL would make a TV deal more attractive to French broadcasters, then what do you propose would make any SL TV deal more attractive to French broadcasters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 So it costs a quarter around a quarter of a million quid to cover these games. It is poor if we can't recoup that from rights. If we are going to pay for coverage we should be gifting it to the biggest platforms we can rather than bein and Sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, M j M said: Shoehorning an anti-P&R agenda into this is pretty weak tbh. Why 'weak'? From my perspective it's being realistic. We're talking about trying to secure a SL broadcasting deal with French TV. At present, there is one French club in SL. They will play in France every other week on a Saturday evening. When playing in the UK, they could be playing on a Thursday, Friday, Saturday or Sunday at various times of the day. Moreover, there is no guarantee they will be in SL in 2021. If you were a broadcaster, what is a more attractive deal? One team that will fill every other Saturday evening in your TV schedules for possibly just one season, or two teams that will provide you with content every Saturday evening, which will be guaranteed for X number of years? I know which one of the two options I would be more inclined to invest time and money into. I'm not a fan of any particular SL club, and have no axe to grind other than wanting what's best for the development of the sport. However, I can see several commercial challenges associated with P&R. You may claim that I'm "shoehorning an anti-PR agenda into this", but for me, this topic is a perfect illustration of how P&R can impact upon the longer-term strategic planning and growth of the sport. As I explained earlier, if people want P&R then that's fine. But don't expect anybody to be queueing up to offer SL a decent French broadcasting deal, because showing a Catalans Dragons game every other week isn't as attractive an offer as some people are perhaps making it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooleboy Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Just now, RugbyLeagueGeek said: This argument is based on the fact that there is copious evidence to suggest that clubs tend to attract more supporters in SL compared to the Championship. Leigh's average attendance in the 2017 SL was 55% higher (6.5k) compared to compared to the 2016 Championship (4.2k). As previously stated, London's average last season was 135% higher than the previous season. Widnes's crowds went up from 3.7k to almost 6k when they were first admitted to SL. My guess - based on the available evidence that I have at my disposal - is that Toulouse's crowds would go up significantly if they went up to SL. What evidence are you basing your arguments on? More to the point of the thread, if you do not believe that Toulouse's entry to SL would make a TV deal more attractive to French broadcasters, then what do you propose would make any SL TV deal more attractive to French broadcasters? Them being in the SL may well help secure a new French TV deal, but fast tracking them in to see if it does, is not the right way for me, they should get there on merit by winning the Grand Final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Dave T said: So it costs a quarter around a quarter of a million quid to cover these games. It is poor if we can't recoup that from rights. If we are going to pay for coverage we should be gifting it to the biggest platforms we can rather than bein and Sky. Good point. £250,000 could be used from the forfeited TWP TV share to film these games and they could then be put on YouTube for free in France to a much larger audience. Then see what the TV companies offer in a year's time after playing hardball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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