Utah - Samoa v Tonga

[aj1908]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A few things on Denver. 

The NRL and Players association absolutely harmed the concept. Despite that it attracted a crowd that exceeded a fair few home tests for the big 3 nations. 

And it seems to be accepted that the Leagues lost money, but I'd be interested to know whether that was actually losses or just didn't get the full payment, as they could be two very different things. 

A little like the RLWC 2017 didn't return what it promised, but didn't make a loss. 

But I do share some of the frustrations around these seemingly random activities. We should have a strategy for where we focus our efforts. I don't think Utah would be anywhere near the list. 

the promoter i think made the first payment and reneged on the rest after the crowd was below par for him

the RFL and NZRL probably just didnt get all they expected vs actually losing money

and wouldnt toronto be a much better location for these events?

 

[Dave T]

Just now, aj1908 said:

the promoter i think made the first payment and reneged on the rest after the crowd was below par for him

the RFL and NZRL probably just didnt get all they expected vs actually losing money

and wouldnt toronto be a much better location for these events?

 

Yes, that is my expectation. As long as costs were covered for NZRL and RFL then I am OK with gambles. Sometimes they work, sometimes they won't. But it had the benefit of seeing through a promoter who would have had the 2025 WC. It was a worthwhile effort. 

I'd be happy to focus on Toronto and other cities in the area to support growth there, but we should be open to reasonable opportunities that are put in front of us. I'm surprised Argyle hasn't tried to fund a major Test in Toronto. For a relatively low cost he could probably get two of the top 3, maybe even the top 4 for a double header and attract corporates and attention to his RL efforts in Toronto. 

[Scubby]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A few things on Denver. 

The NRL and Players association absolutely harmed the concept. Despite that it attracted a crowd that exceeded a fair few home tests for the big 3 nations. 

And it seems to be accepted that the Leagues lost money, but I'd be interested to know whether that was actually losses or just didn't get the full payment, as they could be two very different things. 

A little like the RLWC 2017 didn't return what it promised, but didn't make a loss. 

But I do share some of the frustrations around these seemingly random activities. We should have a strategy for where we focus our efforts. I don't think Utah would be anywhere near the list. 

You'd think Saints would be a better fit for Utah  

[aj1908]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, that is my expectation. As long as costs were covered for NZRL and RFL then I am OK with gambles. Sometimes they work, sometimes they won't. But it had the benefit of seeing through a promoter who would have had the 2025 WC. It was a worthwhile effort. 

I'd be happy to focus on Toronto and other cities in the area to support growth there, but we should be open to reasonable opportunities that are put in front of us. I'm surprised Argyle hasn't tried to fund a major Test in Toronto. For a relatively low cost he could probably get two of the top 3, maybe even the top 4 for a double header and attract corporates and attention to his RL efforts in Toronto. 

i didnt think it was the worst idea in the world its the nrl bashing im getting at.

yes i do wonder why argyle doesnt chase these events

im sure it would be a massive success and he does have the cash to bankroll these experiments.  it would cost peanuts vs what hes paying sonny bill williams

it would also help grow the wolfpack too.

with SBW on board he could convince him to play for samoa, which would only guarantee its success

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

i didnt think it was the worst idea in the world its the nrl bashing im getting at.

Sorry your initial post, which sparked this, suggests otherwise:

2 hours ago, aj1908 said:

This is as dumb as the Denver test.  Why not play it in one of the home nations or worst case new Zealand 

 

[aj1908]

Just now, Damien said:

Sorry your initial post, which sparked this, suggests otherwise:

 

good to see you paying so much attention lol

[Damien]

22 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, that is my expectation. As long as costs were covered for NZRL and RFL then I am OK with gambles. Sometimes they work, sometimes they won't. But it had the benefit of seeing through a promoter who would have had the 2025 WC. It was a worthwhile effort. 

I'd be happy to focus on Toronto and other cities in the area to support growth there, but we should be open to reasonable opportunities that are put in front of us. I'm surprised Argyle hasn't tried to fund a major Test in Toronto. For a relatively low cost he could probably get two of the top 3, maybe even the top 4 for a double header and attract corporates and attention to his RL efforts in Toronto. 

I completely agree. The proposed Toronto v Australia match is hopefully the first step in Arygle dipping his toes into the international waters.

[Dave T]

34 minutes ago, Scubby said:

You'd think Saints would be a better fit for Utah  

That's enough.

[Dave T]

32 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

i didnt think it was the worst idea in the world its the nrl bashing im getting at.

yes i do wonder why argyle doesnt chase these events

im sure it would be a massive success and he does have the cash to bankroll these experiments.  it would cost peanuts vs what hes paying sonny bill williams

it would also help grow the wolfpack too.

with SBW on board he could convince him to play for samoa, which would only guarantee its success

You could stage a double header with Eng v NZ, Tonga v Samoa (or a combination of those 4) and as you say, that could be a major event for him to stage to help him get more attention on his team. 

[aj1908]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

You could stage a double header with Eng v NZ, Tonga v Samoa (or a combination of those 4) and as you say, that could be a major event for him to stage to help him get more attention on his team. 

absolutely.

JT (aumalomo) vs SBW.  

the development of Tonga is one of the best things to happen in league for ages.  and it happened because of the players.  the NRL had no input in it.  they are probably a tier one nation now.

[Keith989]

5 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

absolutely.

JT (aumalomo) vs SBW.  

the development of Tonga is one of the best things to happen in league for ages.  and it happened because of the players.  the NRL had no input in it.  they are probably a tier one nation now.

Didn't the NRL give them the exposure with the invention of the Pacific series and now ocenenic cup?

[aj1908]

3 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

Didn't the NRL give them the exposure with the invention of the Pacific series and now ocenenic cup?

true

but the players had to pick between playing state of origin (and australia).  they chose tonga over origin.

eventually they  (NRL) helped by allowing them to pick tonga, and also play for nsw/qld  as well

andrew fifita was going to get picked for nsw origin (which clashed with samoa vs tonga on the same week)  he picked tonga.

these players did it for national pride.

it cost them 75k in match fees for playing 3 origin games, a decent sacrifice

and the tongan rugby league didnt pay them their match fees for ages.

[Keith989]

2 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

true

but the players had to pick between playing state of origin (and australia).  they chose tonga over origin.

eventually they  (NRL) helped by allowing them to pick tonga, and also play for nsw/qld  as well

andrew fifita was going to get picked for nsw origin (which clashed with samoa vs tonga on the same week)  he picked tonga.

these players did it for national pride.

it cost them 75k in match fees for playing 3 origin games, a decent sacrifice

Yeah a big sacrifice but it doesn't surprise me as Pacific islanders are some of the most generous and unselfish people I've ever seen.

[fighting irish]

I can't read the article either (can anyone enlighten us) but is it part of a plan to establish some clubs there, to fill out the USARL?

If there are significant numbers of pacific islanders there, its a sensible target group.

[Big Picture]

9 hours ago, Copa said:

Utah has a significant Samoan and Tongan population.

Which makes it the one place in the US where Samoa vs. Tonga might get a decent crowd.

[Number 16]

It wouldn't have been my first choice as venue, but I don't have a problem with taking a game to Utah if all parties are fine with it. For me the frustration would be if the visit was simply a 'hit and run' and left no legacy. 

Looking at that state's union website the other code is dominated by Polynesians, which is no surprise, but I'm guessing that more than a few have a League background/interest. At the very least I'd expect the establishment of a three or four team competition, with some follow up to ensure it's not a one season wonder.

 

[Allora]

7 hours ago, Damien said:

Despite all that it still got a better crowd than the recent Australia v New Zealand test in Wollongong, or the Trans Tasman Test before that in Auckland on indeed the last Anzac day test in Canberra.

Did all of the Tests you mention lose a million dollars?

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Allora said:

Did all of the Tests you mention lose a million dollars?

So you are now moving the goalposts. 

Did the Denver Test lose a million dollars? I have never seen it said that the test lost money, just that all the money that was promised wasn't paid.

[Allora]

Just now, Damien said:

So you are now moving the goalposts. 

Did the Denver Test lose a million dollars? I have never seen it said that the test lost money, just that all the money that was promised wasn't paid.

I have never seen it mentioned that the game made money.

 

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Allora said:

I have never seen it mentioned that the game made money.

 

You are the one making up figures not me.

You said it had a very poor crowd. It didnt and the crowd was better than the recent Australia v New Zealand test in Wollongong, the Trans Tasman Test before that in Auckland and the last Anzac day test in Canberra. You were found out and have now attempted to move the goalposts onto something else.

[Boomer Bang Wool]

12 hours ago, aj1908 said:

absolutely.

JT (aumalomo) vs SBW.  

the development of Tonga is one of the best things to happen in league for ages.  and it happened because of the players.  the NRL had no input in it.  they are probably a tier one nation now.

“Development” is a misleading word. There was no development there. Just heritage players who decided to play for their country of heritage

[Boomer Bang Wool]

4 hours ago, Damien said:

You are the one making up figures not me.

You said it had a very poor crowd. It didnt and the crowd was better than the recent Australia v New Zealand test in Wollongong, the Trans Tasman Test before that in Auckland and the last Anzac day test in Canberra. You were found out and have now attempted to move the goalposts onto something else.

Money wasn’t paid because it didn’t generate the income that was expected. After that, the company went under. Sounds like a loss to me 

[aj1908]

8 minutes ago, Boomer Bang Wool said:

“Development” is a misleading word. There was no development there. Just heritage players who decided to play for their country of heritage

There is real development going on in Tonga 

And I meant development of Tonga test team as a strong force 

[Allora]

8 hours ago, Damien said:

You are the one making up figures not me.

You said it had a very poor crowd. It didnt and the crowd was better than the recent Australia v New Zealand test in Wollongong, the Trans Tasman Test before that in Auckland and the last Anzac day test in Canberra. You were found out and have now attempted to move the goalposts onto something else.

Maybe Wollongong and Canberra were selected because the crowd numbers were not expected to be high.
Australian fans are sick of playing the Kiwis.

The official crowd figure was 19,320. It did not look anywhere near that.

The Stadium was 75% empty based on that crowd figure.

It was not a success by any measure.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12247233

The New Zealand Rugby League has written off debts of more than $300,000 related to the controversial Denver test in June 2018.

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Allora said:

Maybe Wollongong and Canberra were selected because the crowd numbers were not expected to be high.
Australian fans are sick of playing the Kiwis.

The official crowd figure was 19,320. It did not look anywhere near that.

The Stadium was 75% empty based on that crowd figure.

It was not a success by any measure.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12247233

The New Zealand Rugby League has written off debts of more than $300,000 related to the controversial Denver test in June 2018.

Oh so now you are going down the route of saying the official crowd figure is a lie. Discussions get kind of pointless if you are going to ignore cold, hard facts.