Nine thing we want to see in 2020 from Championship and League 1

[Total Rugby League]

Here are my New Year wishes. 1 No off-field drama at Bradford There are still plenty of unanswered questions that many, although seemingly not enough,...

View the full article

[Robthegasman]

First and foremost I hope my team Swinton Lions once again consolidate their position in the Championship and 9th would be very nice if possible, and to see them in a strong position off the field with no worries.

But I also want to see the future of the game for clubs outside Super League talked about at the highest volume level of decibels because we are very close to the end of the 2021 season(it will go quickly)when the current TV deal ends,and I want to see what the plans are by the governing body on this,and see how the clubs themselves are going to face this and how they plan on dealing with it.I want full frankness warts an all and in the open no matter how good or bad the news is by all.Otherwise we could be looking at a very bitter dispute and civil war like happened in darts over 20 years ago.We want action,because from where I am sat I see sweet all happening.And given what is at stake it is an absolute disgrace that people have their heads in the sand hoping it will go away and sort itself out.

Well it damned well won’t.And it is time all people within the sport wake the up and smell the coffee.

 

[Robthegasman]

And as a PS to my comment for Championship and Championship 1 clubs there are only about 26 or so HOME league matches before the end of 2021.

Not very long at all.

[EssexRL]

I think my main hope, as a fan of a L1 team, is that the powers that be decide what the purpose of L1 is. 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

4 hours ago, EssexRL said:

I think my main hope, as a fan of a L1 team, is that the powers that be decide what the purpose of L1 is. 

This. League One has long since lost its way. 

[Toby Chopra]

On 30/12/2019 at 10:00, Robthegasman said:

First and foremost I hope my team Swinton Lions once again consolidate their position in the Championship and 9th would be very nice if possible, and to see them in a strong position off the field with no worries.

But I also want to see the future of the game for clubs outside Super League talked about at the highest volume level of decibels because we are very close to the end of the 2021 season(it will go quickly)when the current TV deal ends,and I want to see what the plans are by the governing body on this,and see how the clubs themselves are going to face this and how they plan on dealing with it.I want full frankness warts an all and in the open no matter how good or bad the news is by all.Otherwise we could be looking at a very bitter dispute and civil war like happened in darts over 20 years ago.We want action,because from where I am sat I see sweet all happening.And given what is at stake it is an absolute disgrace that people have their heads in the sand hoping it will go away and sort itself out.

Well it damned well won’t.And it is time all people within the sport wake the up and smell the coffee.

 

I don't quite understand this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't all this get worked through last year? It was a bit dicey at times but ultimately, and not least because of a surprising degree of unity among the Ch clubs, a deal was agreed that kept the SL clubs in the RFL, restored P&R and fixed a formula for how the next broadcasting contract would be shared. It's all done and dusted. Just up to the clubs to do their bit now. 

[The Future is League]

17 hours ago, EssexRL said:

I think my main hope, as a fan of a L1 team, is that the powers that be decide what the purpose of L1 is. 

Perhaps it can used to develop more non heartland clubs.

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

Perhaps it can used to develop more non heartland clubs.

It's original purpose , but that also didn't work 

[EssexRL]

6 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Expecting supporters in places such as London or Coventry to flock in droves to watch underfunded teams struggling at a lower level is naive in the extreme.

 

Totally agree with this (and the rest of your post).

[THE RED ROOSTER]

2 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I genuinely believe this to be a misnomer. All of the examples you cite, along with every single instance of attempted 'expansion' that I can think of in the UK, the common denominator is underfunding. When we try to expand over here, we try and do it on a shoestring - e.g. London receiving the same central funding and salary cap despite a living cost of approx 3x that of towns in RL heartlands, and Gateshead receiving less than the full amount of central funding in their debut SL season. In Australia, Melbourne are still heavily subsidised to my knowledge.

 

Good post but to clarify the London situation I quote from the Super League salary cap regulations
Salary Cap Regulations 2016

Quote

 

5.12 London Allowance

In recognition of the higher living costs for London Broncos players due to their location a 10% London cost of living weighting allowance is applied to the Club’s maximum Aggregate Liability is available in addition to the Club Trained dispensation, subject to the combined value of both allowances being capped at the 10% weighting allowance.

 

Of course the problerm is , as you identify, the lack of funding. If you have a transplanted sport then you are actually limited in the number of rich investors interested in the sport . Withn London Broncos in the super league era you had Brisbane Broncos taking over the club, then the self-publicist Branson who offloaded the club sharpish, then the native Swintonian David Hughes folowed by native Wiganer and Wigan RLFC fan Ian Lenagan, who understandably left when the opportunity to own his home town club arose, before David Hughes retuned.

Kiwi Eric Watson may or may not have wanted to buy into the club depending upon which version of history you believe but despite The Guardian's Gavin Willacy and another individual with an agenda who haunts messageboards assertion that there are investors waiting in the wings this has never materialised. Nor to my knowledge is there anyone.

Another little problem is this, when transplated northerners come down they come down as fans of their home town club therfore it is difficult to switch allegances to the Southern RL Clubs. It's not the same dynamic as someone from the south who followed say Castleford because they were on TV, If you have no connection with the club or area it's much easier to switch.to the local team.

Now much as I bag the Skolars on this board. The real reason I only see them on about 2-3 occasions in a season boils down to the fact that I am a London Broncos fan first and foremost and for me it's the same  as a transplanted Northerner. Yes, I have a crowded sporting diary, particularily in the cricket season, and yes, they do play in a lower league. Those are considerations but not the main reason. My point which you have alluded to is even amongst the very disparate Rugby League community in the South East Peoople already have a team so the only way to expand is through getting new fans for the sport which centres on getting the oxygen of publicity through being on national TV in the top tier, even if it is Pay per View TV, and to get your club club in that position it requires money as you point out.

You can have as high a salary cap as you like but unless there is an individual or group willing to fund up to that cap limit then you have the situation as it is today.

 

 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Good post but to clarify the London situation I quote from the Super League salary cap regulations
Salary Cap Regulations 2016

Quote

 

5.12 London Allowance

In recognition of the higher living costs for London Broncos players due to their location a 10% London cost of living weighting allowance is applied to the Club’s maximum Aggregate Liability is available in addition to the Club Trained dispensation, subject to the combined value of both allowances being capped at the 10% weighting allowance.

Given that the cost of rent is apparently approx 150% higher in London compared to Leeds, a 10% weighting barely scratches the surface. You won't need me to tell you that a player's salary is going to go a lot further up north compared to London.

3 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

You can have as high a salary cap as you like but unless there is an individual or group willing to fund up to that cap limit then you have the situation as it is today.

Yes this is the big issue. But it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, in that unless there is a higher salary cap for the London team, I'm not sure why any investors would step forward to chuck their money down the drain given that it's going to be nigh-on impossible for them to construct a winning side given the restrictions placed upon them.

[GUBRATS]

17 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Given that the cost of rent is apparently approx 150% higher in London compared to Leeds, a 10% weighting barely scratches the surface. You won't need me to tell you that a player's salary is going to go a lot further up north compared to London.

Yes this is the big issue. But it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, in that unless there is a higher salary cap for the London team, I'm not sure why any investors would step forward to chuck their money down the drain given that it's going to be nigh-on impossible for them to construct a winning side given the restrictions placed upon them

So you are assuming it is a salary cap issue ? , Nah if say David Argyle turned up at a SLE/RFL meeting and said " I'm willing to chuck 5 mill a year at LB , but I want dispensation " , you are telling me they'd vote that down ? 

No way 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

18 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So you are assuming it is a salary cap issue ? , Nah if say David Argyle turned up at a SLE/RFL meeting and said " I'm willing to chuck 5 mill a year at LB , but I want dispensation " , you are telling me they'd vote that down ? 

My gut feeling is that the majority wouldn't want to give any dispensation. I may be wide of the mark with that, but unfortunately I think too many of the SL clubs make decisions based on their own interests rather than the wider interests of the competition and the game. More to the point, I'm not sure that 5 million a year would be enough to guarantee London success - my guess is that it would cost a fair bit more than that!

It remains to be seen what will happen with Toronto and Argyle in the longer term. I can't see him being too keen on flirting with relegation, so the question may be whether there ends up being pressure to ring-fence the SL again, or whether a breakaway competition ends up being formed. It's probably all tied in with the private equity scenario as well.

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

My gut feeling is that the majority wouldn't want to give any dispensation. I may be wide of the mark with that, but unfortunately I think too many of the SL clubs make decisions based on their own interests rather than the wider interests of the competition and the game. More to the point, I'm not sure that 5 million a year would be enough to guarantee London success - my guess is that it would cost a fair bit more than that!

It remains to be seen what will happen with Toronto and Argyle in the longer term. I can't see him being too keen on flirting with relegation, so the question may be whether there ends up being pressure to ring-fence the SL again, or whether a breakaway competition ends up being formed. It's probably all tied in with the private equity scenario as well.

I too believe we will see a ring fenced SL in the future , that's when I'll have problems again 

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I too believe we will see a ring fenced SL in the future , that's when I'll have problems again 

You won't be on your own Gubby, and it won't be only us Leythers saying that many fans of the Championship clubs will as before under licensing take the same attitude.

If the foundations are allowed to crumble the shiney bit above ground will eventually crumble, and it will be of their own making.

[OriginalMrC]

I'd like to see league 1 properly supported by the RFL and clubs in the league given an opportunity to thrive. Cutting the league to 11 teams has been a disaster for the league with the awful 1895 Cup a terrible alternative for loss of fixtures. 

I'd also like to see clubs outside the heartlands given appropriate levels of support to succeed. There is a sink or swim mentality to expansion and clubs like Coventry, Skolars and West Wales are up against it before a ball is even kicked. These clubs get no extra funding and no additional assistance to help develop the game. The Midlands has seen academy and sky try funding withdrawn in the last few years with no alternatives. If these 3 clubs are to continue to develop then they need more support 

[bamfordsbeans]

The Championship is only just recovering from the years of licensing.To go down that route again could be terminal for those clubs not in the "chosen few".

Coming upto 25 years of SL and it still relies on only 4 or 5 clubs to provide the trophies and the bulk of interest and crowds.Until that number increases to 9 or 10 any such talks should be put on hold.

Having said that the likes of Hudgell,Davy and Carter are only going to vote one way.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Wasn’t the Hemel (it may have been thr All Golds or Oxford) chairman quite critical of The RFL once they were admitted into League One, saying help and guidance was non-existent? I seem to remember something like that happening. 

League One needs to go back to being a Development League, of sorts. I get how promotion and relegation works and understand these clubs are there on merit but I see little point to the likes of the Cumbrian sides and your established heartland clubs like your Oldham’s in there. I’m not sure what their presence does for the expansion sides and what they really learn from these games. I get having clubs re-establishing themselves after financial problems like Keighley, York a few years ago and even to some extent, Bradford, in there.

Expansion in the UK seems to not be on the agenda anymore. I know Dublin expressed an interest but that never seemed to be serious or that an immediate application was going to happen. It seems that abroad is the new expansion areas of the game. I’ve no major problem with that, though I do remain sceptical about its long-term viability but that’s a rabbit hole I don’t want to go down. 

 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, OriginalMrC said:

I'd also like to see clubs outside the heartlands given appropriate levels of support to succeed. There is a sink or swim mentality to expansion and clubs like Coventry, Skolars and West Wales are up against it before a ball is even kicked. These clubs get no extra funding and no additional assistance to help develop the game. The Midlands has seen academy and sky try funding withdrawn in the last few years with no alternatives. If these 3 clubs are to continue to develop then they need more support 

I agree that there is a sink or swim mentality, and so far most of the expansion clubs have unfortunately sunk. Coventry and West Wales also appear to be doggy-paddling for their lives based on the last couple of years. If the game is serious about expanding into these areas then they do need to be properly funded. However, does the game currently have the money and resource to throw at these areas to stimulate proper development? My guess is no, and perhaps the limited resources that the game does have should arguably be put into areas that may provide a bigger return on any investment.

If the funding was cut from these two clubs tomorrow, what infrastructure would be left to show for the money that has been put into them in the past few years? Hemel, Oxford and All Golds don't appear to have left any legacy over and above what was there before they turned pro. Oxford and Gloucs lasted 5 seasons, and Hemel 6. At £75k a year central funding, that's £1.2m that may as well have been flushed down the toilet. Add in Coventry and West Wales and that total comes to over £2m. Surely that money could have been put to much greater use that could have stimulated some long-term sustainable development?

Unfortunately, I don't believe there was any long-term strategy from the RFL, over and above an ad-hoc pins-in-map approach based on whoever happened to put their hands up to say they wanted to be in it. Instead, they should have conducted some research and developed a strategy to try and determine which areas of the country they should focus on with a goal of producing long-term, sustainable development. If that research had come back and told them that Oxford, for example, was strategically the best place to try and grow the game, then they should have developed a plan and funded it properly. From a lay-person's perspective, I would have thought that a more sensible approach would be to gradually expand outwards from their areas of strength - e.g. properly funding development work in places like Sheffield and Doncaster, and then progressively moving further South into places like Derbyshire from there. Just dropping pro teams into isolated RL areas such as Oxford or Gloucester seemed very ad-hoc and unsustainable at the time, and unfortunately has proved to be so.

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

You won't be on your own Gubby, and it won't be only us Leythers saying that many fans of the Championship clubs will as before under licensing take the same attitude.

If the foundations are allowed to crumble the shiney bit above ground will eventually crumble, and it will be of their own making.

I don't particularly blame them if they do it Harry , bottom line is we all want what is best for our particular part of the sport , and if your support of the sport is based on an emotional connection with a club , then that clubs interest will be paramount , it's when they try to pretend they are doing it for your benefit 

If it happens will I choose to not bother as much as I did last time ? , Don't know , it wasn't a conscious decision , it was a gradual malaise that set it 

What might keep my interest would be if they ( non SL clubs ) decided to take their own futures into their own hands , alter the season to suit , start to work together to increase income and find new better investment , maybe even change a few rules , but certainly detach themselves from all top tier influence 

Not happen like 

[Robthegasman]

I want to know what the future is going to be for clubs outside of Super League.

Are those clubs going to get RFL funding or not?I suggest the answer will be No.

So are the clubs outside Super League going to be allowed to find a broadcaster as a partner for these clubs?Free to Air I might add?

Will a broadcaster want 25 plus clubs or not?Yes or No?

If a broadcaster does want to get involved well what will they want?How many clubs will they want?

Will they want town teams like Batley,Dewsbury,Keighley,Swinton,Rochdale,Oldham etc etc or will they want City based teams or regional teams?Will existing clubs have to rebrand like was proposed with Swinton Lions to Manchester Lions on the field?Will these clubs have to amalgamate?What is the score?Is it too hard a question to ask?

Will the clubs outside of the Super League form their own governing body?

And what will happen to clubs who might not make the final cut for the start of 2022?

 Will they just die?Will they become amateur clubs?

And let’s be frank and blunt we do not have long left to decide and to get it right.

Clubs have only about between say 24-30 HOME games left before the Judgement Day comes,the day of reckoning call it whatever you want.

And I am concerned that too many people have got their heads in the sand.

I think it is time to get them out and smell the coffee.

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, Robthegasman said:

I want to know what the future is going to be for clubs outside of Super League.

Are those clubs going to get RFL funding or not?I suggest the answer will be No.

So are the clubs outside Super League going to be allowed to find a broadcaster as a partner for these clubs?Free to Air I might add?

Will a broadcaster want 25 plus clubs or not?Yes or No?

If a broadcaster does want to get involved well what will they want?How many clubs will they want?

Will they want town teams like Batley,Dewsbury,Keighley,Swinton,Rochdale,Oldham etc etc or will they want City based teams or regional teams?Will existing clubs have to rebrand like was proposed with Swinton Lions to Manchester Lions on the field?Will these clubs have to amalgamate?What is the score?Is it too hard a question to ask?

Will the clubs outside of the Super League form their own governing body?

And what will happen to clubs who might not make the final cut for the start of 2022?

 Will they just die?Will they become amateur clubs?

And let’s be frank and blunt we do not have long left to decide and to get it right.

Clubs have only about between say 24-30 HOME games left before the Judgement Day comes,the day of reckoning call it whatever you want.

And I am concerned that too many people have got their heads in the sand.

I think it is time to get them out and smell the coffee.

Unfortunately Rob , whatever does happen to the lower tiers is linked to the top , so not much can happen until their future is decided 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Having read the independent inquiry on the state of Bradford and The RFL’s handling, multiple times, of the ownership there in Forty20 (I’d recommend everyone buys it to read that, if nothing else), I don’t believe The RFL are fit for purpose or have the ability to seek the best possible deal for its members, therefore if I were a fan of a lower league club, I would be asking questions of my club’s chairman in relation to the fitness of The RFL and the chairman’s opinion on the matter. 

[Robthegasman]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Unfortunately Rob , whatever does happen to the lower tiers is linked to the top , so not much can happen until their future is decided 

Well that is a valid point seeing that the RFL are now governed by the Super League.

And my feeling is that the TV deal we now have will be cut and the Super League/RFL will take the money for themselves and the non Super League clubs will get nothing.

And this is why I think clubs outside Super League need clarification and answers NOW so they can make plans.

[Robthegasman]

11 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Having read the independent inquiry on the state of Bradford and The RFL’s handling, multiple times, of the ownership there in Forty20 (I’d recommend everyone buys it to read that, if nothing else), I don’t believe The RFL are fit for purpose or have the ability to seek the best possible deal for its members, therefore if I were a fan of a lower league club, I would be asking questions of my club’s chairman in relation to the fitness of The RFL and the chairman’s opinion on the matter. 

I think you are correct.The RFL certainly in their current guise are not fit for purpose.

My own personal opinion is that it might be better if the game split,just like darts did no matter how much blood has got to be spilt on the carpet.