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Kayakman

Wolfpack Straight To the Top

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8 hours ago, Big Picture said:

That's a completely different situation, they were accepted into a league which was already a high profile money spinner which SL clearly is not now.  The small town teams like Warrington, Wigan and St Helens are a stumbling block to creating a comparable league in RL, that would take several teams in big globally recognized cities.

Ok so we decide to disband Warrington, Wigan and St Helens and suddenly in their place appears massively wealthy clubs in globally recognised cities?

Back in the real world all you have done there is taken thousands of real fans away from the game. Cut off a reliable source of a good number of future Super League players.

What's your cut off point? Ban clubs from cities below one million? Five million? 

How about we do look to expansion but not at the expense of existing clubs.

Then again in the real world these global city teams do not exist. I hope you are right and they will one day but the existence of the mentioned teams will have little impact on the likelihood of it happening.

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17 minutes ago, Li0nhead said:

Ok so we decide to disband Warrington, Wigan and St Helens and suddenly in their place appears massively wealthy clubs in globally recognised cities?

Back in the real world all you have done there is taken thousands of real fans away from the game. Cut off a reliable source of a good number of future Super League players.

What's your cut off point? Ban clubs from cities below one million? Five million? 

How about we do look to expansion but not at the expense of existing clubs.

Then again in the real world these global city teams do not exist. I hope you are right and they will one day but the existence of the mentioned teams will have little impact on the likelihood of it happening.

The argument with Big Picture has been done to death , ignore is the best option I have found 

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1 hour ago, Li0nhead said:

How about we do look to expansion but not at the expense of existing clubs.

Unfortunately in a world of P&R that can't happen. For someone to go up, someone's got to go down.  

If expansion brings another big player in a few years, someone in SL will go down and be replaced with them.

Now for warrington, saints and Wigan to be worried (in my opinion) would mean that 8-10 big money teams come up over time, which would be stupid stupid unsustainable expansion.  Expansion should bring some growth!

(I like PnR!)

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12 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Unfortunately in a world of P&R that can't happen. For someone to go up, someone's got to go down.  

If expansion brings another big player in a few years, someone in SL will go down and be replaced with them.

Now for warrington, saints and Wigan to be worried (in my opinion) would mean that 8-10 big money teams come up over time, which would be stupid stupid unsustainable expansion.  Expansion should bring some growth!

(I like PnR!)

If there were more big money big city clubs they would have to expand the league.  

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1 minute ago, aj1908 said:

If there were more big money big city clubs they would have to expand the league.  

To what end? I see the argument for 14 teams.  Any larger would require conferences of sorts (or a longer season) unless SL stop with the home and away fixturing

 You could add another league with enough growth (say a league two for example ) but a very large super league (over say 14 teams) wouldn't make sense would it?  

 

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3 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

To what end? I see the argument for 14 teams.  Any larger would require conferences of sorts (or a longer season) unless SL stop with the home and away fixturing

 You could add another league with enough growth (say a league two for example ) but a very large super league (over say 14 teams) wouldn't make sense would it?  

 

Because super league needs to have a lot of English teams to be relevant 

And it would be stupid to exclude big clubs if they want to get in 

Nrl is 16 teams and going to 17 

It doesn't have to be a full home and away season 

 

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8 hours ago, aj1908 said:

America was a colony and it has a big thing for cheerleaders 

I'll.try and put in subtitles in the future because my posts are too nuanced lol

What are you babbling on about......

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19 hours ago, DC77 said:

Regards Aussies, laughable they still have “Australia Day”. 

Officially we still do but huge numbers want to change the date and make it more inclusive.

Every year now the raging debate drowns out the day. Some local government areas don’t hold celebrations anymore and the federal government takes revenge through various means.

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14 hours ago, SL17 said:

Can you explain just what the investment made was for. Is it for the future of the game in Canada or a springboard to their own concern?

Either way there’s nothing come out of it so far and how long until it does?

The investment is to start up a Rugby League club in Toronto and have them competitive. 

The Canadian Rugby League should be able to capitalise on this for the benefit of the game in Canada. 

They are a club, not the national federation. 

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8 hours ago, ojx said:

I think many here missing the point, $21 million is nothing in the Toronto sports market. A single Blue Jays pitcher earns more than the entire of SL payroll in one year. If the RL can make even a small market share here, then there could be huge opportunities for the sport. 

If it fails, then so be it. This is being funded independently anyhow. It's almost like a free bet for the sport.

Agree 100%. 

When we look at another similar sport in the UK some of their clubs lose more than this and they have been around for decades. 

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43 minutes ago, Copa said:

Officially we still do but huge numbers want to change the date and make it more inclusive.

Every year now the raging debate drowns out the day. Some local government areas don’t hold celebrations anymore and the federal government takes revenge through various means.

That's not true lol.

If it was shorten would.be in power, instead he came up.short(en) 

There's a minority.who want it changed that's all 

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14 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Yep, but what's the RL angle on that then?

Edit to say - I ment England, even the Isle of Man could invade and take Wales.🤪

Yeah, but Whitehaven wasn't an invasion it was an attack/raid :kolobok_dwarf: 

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6 hours ago, Li0nhead said:

Ok so we decide to disband Warrington, Wigan and St Helens and suddenly in their place appears massively wealthy clubs in globally recognised cities?

Back in the real world all you have done there is taken thousands of real fans away from the game. Cut off a reliable source of a good number of future Super League players.

What's your cut off point? Ban clubs from cities below one million? Five million? 

How about we do look to expansion but not at the expense of existing clubs.

Then again in the real world these global city teams do not exist. I hope you are right and they will one day but the existence of the mentioned teams will have little impact on the likelihood of it happening.

No, leave those traditional clubs in the same league as always playing the same opponents as always, the likes of Toronto and New York clearly don't fit into that and belong in a different league altogether.

So instead, form a whole new separate purpose-built league sitting above the existing domestic UK structure in the same way as Super Rugby and Pro14 sit above the domestic RU structures in the countries where they operate, set up and run along all the same lines as the high profile money-spinning North American pro leagues which decades of experience in 5 sports has proven to be the way to make ownership of big time pro sports franchises profitable for those owners.  On that basis, carefully choose a roster of big world class globally recognized cities whose presence in said league will help it sell TV rights and sponsorship on the basis of the mouth-watering outside-the-box clashes which would occur every season (and several of them in the league's first month to put it well and truly on the sporting map) and thus presents a ground floor opportunity in the major league sports business to prospective franchise owners for a price well below the cost of buying into an established major league, one with great growth potential due to its transatlantic, intercontinental and multinational reach.

In short, something much bigger and better than the original SL concept: an RL equivalent of the Champions League, UEFA League and Copa Libertadores de América, week in and week out every season.

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4 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

No, leave those traditional clubs in the same league as always playing the same opponents as always, the likes of Toronto and New York clearly don't fit into that and belong in a different league altogether.

So instead, form a whole new separate purpose-built league sitting above the existing domestic UK structure in the same way as Super Rugby and Pro14 sit above the domestic RU structures in the countries where they operate, set up and run along all the same lines as the high profile money-spinning North American pro leagues which decades of experience in 5 sports has proven to be the way to make ownership of big time pro sports franchises profitable for those owners.  On that basis, carefully choose a roster of big world class globally recognized cities whose presence in said league will help it sell TV rights and sponsorship on the basis of the mouth-watering outside-the-box clashes which would occur every season (and several of them in the league's first month to put it well and truly on the sporting map) and thus presents a ground floor opportunity in the major league sports business to prospective franchise owners for a price well below the cost of buying into an established major league, one with great growth potential due to its transatlantic, intercontinental and multinational reach.

In short, something much bigger and better than the original SL concept: an RL equivalent of the Champions League, UEFA League and Copa Libertadores de América, week in and week out every season.

Yes 

Liverpool 

London

Sheffield 

Leeds

Manchester 

Torntono 

Ottowa

New York 

😀

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38 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

No, leave those traditional clubs in the same league as always playing the same opponents as always, the likes of Toronto and New York clearly don't fit into that and belong in a different league altogether.

So instead, form a whole new separate purpose-built league sitting above the existing domestic UK structure in the same way as Super Rugby and Pro14 sit above the domestic RU structures in the countries where they operate, set up and run along all the same lines as the high profile money-spinning North American pro leagues which decades of experience in 5 sports has proven to be the way to make ownership of big time pro sports franchises profitable for those owners.  On that basis, carefully choose a roster of big world class globally recognized cities whose presence in said league will help it sell TV rights and sponsorship on the basis of the mouth-watering outside-the-box clashes which would occur every season (and several of them in the league's first month to put it well and truly on the sporting map) and thus presents a ground floor opportunity in the major league sports business to prospective franchise owners for a price well below the cost of buying into an established major league, one with great growth potential due to its transatlantic, intercontinental and multinational reach.

In short, something much bigger and better than the original SL concept: an RL equivalent of the Champions League, UEFA League and Copa Libertadores de América, week in and week out every season.

Feel free to do so. You don't need any involvement of the current clubs as you highlight, so just crack on and do it. 

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10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Feel free to do so. You don't need any involvement of the current clubs as you highlight, so just crack on and do it. 

I am so glad he's on ignore , but it does give the occasional quote something to smile about 😁

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15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Feel free to do so. You don't need any involvement of the current clubs as you highlight, so just crack on and do it. 

The shame is he's not representative of other wolfpack fans 

The Canadians have played by the rules starting in league one and getting promoted up

Argyle himself seems to want to fit in rather than make waves 

 

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55 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Yes 

Liverpool 

London

Sheffield 

Leeds

Manchester 

Torntono 

Ottowa

New York 

😀

Close, but slightly off the mark.  It has a few issues:

1. It's not balanced either side of the Atlantic, a necessity if the cost and burden of transatlantic travel is going to be equalized for all franchises and kept manageable via a geographically unbalanced schedule.

2. It only includes a fraction of the number of countries which Super Rugby and Pro14 cover, so a claim to be an RL counterpart of those leagues (let alone the Champions League, UEFA League and Copa Libertadores) would have zero credibility and the potential number of broadcasters who might sign on would be limited too.

3. Having more than half of the franchises in one country would leave the league dependent on having most of its TV income come from that one country, which is a big risk given that in the country in question (the UK) to date only one broadcaster has been interested in spending a lot of money on RL and competition for the rights is desirable.  Recall that Sky cut the rights fees in 1999 because the ratings weren't good enough to justify the original amount.

4. Your list includes a couple of secondary markets which won't deliver the profile needed for success from the outset.  In order to justify a franchise fee commensurate with such a transatlantic, intercontinental and multinational venture to investors and provide enough capital to fund startup costs and a major pre-launch promotional campaign across all markets to create the audience which someone like Mark Evans (past CEO of Harlequins RL and the Melbourne Storm) thinks is needed but doesn't exist at present, the right locations need to be identified up front and the rights which the franchise buyer will be granted need to be significant in a manner comparable to that of the major North American pro leagues.  Recall that under-funding has doomed many past RL expansion ventures.

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15 hours ago, frank said:

There should be a board created for all these negative thinkers ,maybe the RFL board could join them.

There is one,they meet the first Monday in the month under a rock in Leigh.

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I think there is room for all existing English Super League clubs and then some in an expanded League that is ring fenced.  There is already ring fencing anyways, it just begins in League 1.

Leigh, Widnes, Toulouse & London should be brought in to an expanded Super League immediately.  Conferences should be created if necessary, rivalries between existing clubs should be greatly built upon.

More North American and UK clubs should also be created.  Wales should probably have a Super League club and France should look to have at least 3-4 clubs in a greatly expanded league.  

Super League should not be considered an exclusively English League, not if it wants to develop a better product optimized for the 21st Century Sports Entertainment world.

 

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2 hours ago, aj1908 said:

Yes 

Liverpool 

London

Sheffield 

Leeds

Manchester 

Torntono 

Ottowa

New York 

😀

Well London and Sheffield are leading the charge with their huge crowds. 

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1 hour ago, aj1908 said:

Yes 

Liverpool 

London

Sheffield 

Leeds

Manchester 

Torntono 

Ottowa

New York 

😀

Has Subbuteo Rugby made a comeback?

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40 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

I think there is room for all existing English Super League clubs and then some in an expanded League that is ring fenced.  There is already ring fencing anyways, it just begins in League 1.

Leigh, Widnes, Toulouse & London should be brought in to an expanded Super League immediately.  Conferences should be created if necessary, rivalries between existing clubs should be greatly built upon.

More North American and UK clubs should also be created.  Wales should probably have a Super League club and France should look to have at least 3-4 clubs in a greatly expanded league.  

Super League should not be considered an exclusively English League, not if it wants to develop a better product optimized for the 21st Century Sports Entertainment world.

 

You don't seriously consider small towns like Widnes, Leigh, Warrington, St Helens and Wigan the sort of places which would fit in an intercontinental league do you?

Your list adds up to at least 24 teams, how on earth are you going to bring in enough TV rights money to enable a sufficiently high salary cap to rival RU and the NRL in a league that big with such small town teams in it?

Edited by Big Picture

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4 hours ago, aj1908 said:

That's not true lol.

If it was shorten would.be in power, instead he came up.short(en) 

There's a minority.who want it changed that's all 

You’ve clearly been avoiding the young again. There’s a substantial amount of support to change the date. If you’re as old as you claim you’ll remember that Australia Day wasn’t even a public holiday everywhere that long back because many people didn’t really care. This sacredness of the current date in some quarters didn’t exist until recent history. In the past all sorts of dates were used. The current one is more a NSW day really.

 

 

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F104FF1C-C3F0-47E4-8811-C0B14FEF74A7.jpeg

Edited by Copa

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25 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

You don't seriously consider small towns like Widnes, Leigh, Warrington, St Helens and Wigan the sort of places which would fit in an intercontinental league do you?

Your list adds up to at least 24 teams, how on earth are you going to bring in enough TV rights money to enable a sufficiently high salary cap to rival RU and the NRL in a league that big with such small town teams in it?

Warrington, Wigan and St Helens should absolutely be in the league.  Some teams are bigger than the towns they otherwise reside in, these three do fit that bill. 

Green Bay Packers are in a small town but they have National appeal.  Likewise, Saskatchewan Roughriders are in small old Regina and they are a National Brand.

Small town teams can work, I come from a small town that has won a National Ice Hockey Championship a little over 1 year ago.  Population 11000 + change competing against major metropolitan areas.  My town has a 4000 seat ice hockey arena.

The Heartlands is the foundation, foundations need to be maintained but it's clear the game needs to add a couple of expansions to the house.

I'm not advocating a set number of teams but its clear the game needs new markets to secure better media deals and put more money in to the game.

France is a logical choice but you need more than 1 or 2 teams.  North America is also a logical choice but again, you need more than 1 or 2 teams.  The game also needs London and probably 1 or 2 other teams outside the M62 to become a truly National competition that actually appeals to the casual punters and National Broadcasters.

I also think the clubs in the bottom half the Championship and League 1 should become farm teams and the defacto academies of the Super League clubs.

 

 

Edited by CanadianRugger
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