Who would you choose to be relegated from SL?

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Toulouse have been around for 83years surely that classes as established 

Of course it does, but I wasn’t saying Toulouse aren’t established. I was commenting on aj1908’s comment that Wakey only get the crowds that they do because they’ve been in SL for 20 years, which is nonsense, it’s because they’re a long established club. 
 

[aj1908]

10 minutes ago, Crown Flatter said:

We don’t want that stadium in the Championship, but the Wakefield club was promoted on false promises wasn’t it, so it probably belongs in the second tier doesn’t it?

Not promoted but retained their spot under franchising.  Another time before I think they were going to get kicked out they had another nice artists impression 

The grounds of many championship sides are far better than belle vue...That's so true

Leigh Widnes batey dewsbury (just gkogled where crown flatt is lol) and Rochdale  league one? York fax.and Featherstone all ###### on belle.vue 

Belle vue would be one of the worst grounds in the champ

[aj1908]

6 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Of course it does, but I wasn’t saying Toulouse aren’t established. I was commenting on aj1908’s comment that Wakey only get the crowds that they do because they’ve been in SL for 20 years, which is nonsense, it’s because they’re a long established club. 
 

If they weren't in the top.division for so long they wouldn't get those crowds.  They would get crowds like the halifax or.fev

[HarrogateKnights]

Leeds so we get the shout of they are too good to go down to be replaced by Featherstone and let the dual reg madness begin

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Haha well ok then but in the spirit of the thread who would you like to finish bottom (and thus be relegated)?

Well considering you didn't enter into the spirit of the OP ( by naming who ) neither will I

[Harry Stottle]

48 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

The players contracts weren't performance based though 

Exactly, just as I said but they have to put in the effort.

So should that give employees (in any job) the right to not perform to the best of their abillity because they can just turn up to work and get payed?

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I’m not sure what your point is tbh, however, any side relegated would see a drop off in attendances and any side that stayed in the lower leagues for a sustained period would continue to suffer the same fate. 

But is that not what you want to happen Ollie, a slow drift into obscurity, that is ultimately what will happen if your preferred Closed Shop was re-established and the inevitable no funding below SL was brought about.

[aj1908]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Exactly, just as I said but they have to put in the effort.

So should that give employees (in any job) the right to not perform to the best of their abillity because they can just turn up to work and get payed?

If there is no performance clauses then it doesn't matter.

Beaumont approved those contracts.  Then reneged on them when it suited him...poor 

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

If there is no performance clauses then it doesn't matter.

Beaumont approved those contracts.  Then reneged on them when it suited him...poor 

Have you ever employed anyone AJ? 

What would you do if you were paying someone good money and they were doing nothing for it and laughing in your face whilst banking it?

[Oliver Clothesoff]

15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

But is that not what you want to happen Ollie, a slow drift into obscurity, that is ultimately what will happen if your preferred Closed Shop was re-established and the inevitable no funding below SL was brought about.

Do I want it? No, not particularly. However, I struggle to see a way that the game can continue to fund nearly 40 clubs year in, year out in the same way it has done for however many years. 

[Eddie]

54 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

If they weren't in the top.division for so long they wouldn't get those crowds.  They would get crowds like the halifax or.fev

The same goes for Real Madrid though. 

[aj1908]

17 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Have you ever employed anyone AJ? 

What would you do if you were paying someone good money and they were doing nothing for it and laughing in your face whilst banking it?

Yes I get the point

But he signed contracts.

That's why they have them.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Do I want it? No, not particularly. However, I struggle to see a way that the game can continue to fund nearly 40 clubs year in, year out in the same way it has done for however many years. 

Do you not think the game as a whole will suffer including SL, do you not consider that the community game will be affected if the semi - pro club from their towns demise, look throughout the game at all levels where the player's come from, not all originate from towns of SL clubs.

I believe it is a very short sighted attitude that a lot of SL fans have thinking the game will eventually become stronger if the SL clubs have more money, I think the game will becone much weaker, and especially if they are putting emphasis on clubs from places who will produce no player's.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

13 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Do you not think the game as a whole will suffer including SL, do you not consider that the community game will be affected if the semi - pro club from their towns demise, look throughout the game at all levels where the player's come from, not all originate from towns of SL clubs.

I believe it is a very short sighted attitude that a lot of SL fans have thinking the game will eventually become stronger if the SL clubs have more money, I think the game will becone much weaker, and especially if they are putting emphasis on clubs from places who will produce no player's.

Can you provide evidence of a semi-pro team that’s ceased to exist and then the consequent knock-on effect you speak of? 

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Can you provide evidence of a semi-pro team that’s ceased to exist and then the consequent knock-on effect you speak of? 

No I can't Ollie, but in the last round of licencing have a look at how the attendance figures fell away and compare that to how it has rejuvenated since Promotion was reinstated.

Not only that, I have witnessed many fans of clubs on these pages who have said they would walk away if there once again is nothing to play for in the sense of promotion, I have spoken to fellow Leythers and fans of other clubs with the same question of how would they recieve a return to a closed shop of the top division, the answers I recieved was that it would make them very much consider if they still would have the same interest in attending. 

My interpretation of this is if interest is indeed lost by a lot of people and if as I expect no more funding below SL would follow, that would put a lot of clubs in financial difficulty, if indeed that does follow with club closures I consider that without the focal point of the semi-pro game in those towns the amatuer game would also suffer, it is decligning at an alarming rate as we speak, I think this would speed up the process and negativity.

Of course this a personal interpretation of how I see the sport panning out if these steps are taken, am I being negative I don't think so but I would prefer it is not put to the test.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

51 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

No I can't Ollie, but in the last round of licencing have a look at how the attendance figures fell away and compare that to how it has rejuvenated since Promotion was reinstated.

Not only that, I have witnessed many fans of clubs on these pages who have said they would walk away if there once again is nothing to play for in the sense of promotion, I have spoken to fellow Leythers and fans of other clubs with the same question of how would they recieve a return to a closed shop of the top division, the answers I recieved was that it would make them very much consider if they still would have the same interest in attending. 

My interpretation of this is if interest is indeed lost by a lot of people and if as I expect no more funding below SL would follow, that would put a lot of clubs in financial difficulty, if indeed that does follow with club closures I consider that without the focal point of the semi-pro game in those towns the amatuer game would also suffer, it is decligning at an alarming rate as we speak, I think this would speed up the process and negativity.

Of course this a personal interpretation of how I see the sport panning out if these steps are taken, am I being negative I don't think so but I would prefer it is not put to the test.

1. So, you’ve got no evidence to back up your opinion. Great. 

2. There’s a lot more to attendance figures rising/falling than just the structure of the game.

 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Do you not think the game as a whole will suffer including SL, do you not consider that the community game will be affected if the semi - pro club from their towns demise, look throughout the game at all levels where the player's come from, not all originate from towns of SL clubs.

What is the squad make-up of typical Championship clubs? Do they draw a majority of players from their own town, or do they recruit ex-academy players from Super League clubs. Genuine question - I don't know the answer.

46 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

if indeed that does follow with club closures I consider that without the focal point of the semi-pro game in those towns the amatuer game would also suffer, it is decligning at an alarming rate as we speak, I think this would speed up the process and negativity.

I'm not convinced this would be the case. Clubs like Leigh East and Wath Brow were consistently strong in the NCL during licencing years, despite being in areas where the pro team wasn't in SL. 

With the SL clubs now having to run reserve teams, there are still going to be plenty of playing opportunities for players to aspire to. Looking forward, if there wasn't a pro club in Leigh, wouldn't local youngsters who enjoy rugby ultimately just end up popping the 5 miles up the road and gravitating to Wigan for their pro rugby fix? Not every town has a pro cricket team but it doesn't seem to stop talented players gravitating to their most local county.

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

1. So, you’ve got no evidence to back up your opinion. Great. 

2. There’s a lot more to attendance figures rising/falling than just the structure of the game.

 

Indeed , I can only go off the club I support ( although it is one of probably the most affected by the structure ) which saw a drop of around 40-45 % during the 5 years of licencing 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Indeed , I can only go off the club I support ( although it is one of probably the most affected by the structure ) which saw a drop of around 40-45 % during the 5 years of licencing 

Again, plenty of reasons, not just a change of structure, could be attributed to such changes in attendance. 

 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

What is the squad make-up of typical Championship clubs? Do they draw a majority of players from their own town, or do they recruit ex-academy players from Super League clubs. Genuine question - I don't know the answer.

I'm not convinced this would be the case. Clubs like Leigh East and Wath Brow were consistently strong in the NCL during licencing years, despite being in areas where the pro team wasn't in SL. 

With the SL clubs now having to run reserve teams, there are still going to be plenty of playing opportunities for players to aspire to. Looking forward, if there wasn't a pro club in Leigh, wouldn't local youngsters who enjoy rugby ultimately just end up popping the 5 miles up the road and gravitating to Wigan for their pro rugby fix? Not every town has a pro cricket team but it doesn't seem to stop talented players gravitating to their most local county.

Harry might be right or wrong , there is only one way to find out , if he's is right , then probably any damage wouldn't be repairable 

It isn't necessarily that the youngsters start playing for Leigh , they already go to Wigan,Wire and Saints via their scholarships and academies , just that overall less would get early exposure to the sport 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Again, plenty of reasons, not just a change of structure, could be attributed to such changes in attendance. 

 

Like ?

[Harry Stottle]

9 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

1. So, you’ve got no evidence to back up your opinion. Great. 

2. There’s a lot more to attendance figures rising/falling than just the structure of the game.

 

OK Ollie, as I said it is a personal interpretation, please for the benefit of discussion how do you see the sport developing if it returns to a closed shop and funding to clubs below SL is no more, I am quite happy to say I think it will devastate the game, as you have already stated you consider it to be a positive step and way forward, tell me why and how please.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Harry might be right or wrong , there is only one way to find out , if he's is right , then probably any damage wouldn't be repairable 

And by the same argument, if he's wrong then any 'damage' would be repairable.

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It isn't necessarily that the youngsters start playing for Leigh , they already go to Wigan,Wire and Saints via their scholarships and academies , just that overall less would get early exposure to the sport 

Why? It isn't like kids growing up in Birmingham who have no idea what rugby league is. As you say, they have big SL clubs already on their doorsteps that the best players already gravitate to.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Like ?

A 9th place finish, socio-economic problems, opposition (in terms of fanbase size, locality, etc) and relations between club and fanbase (of which I’m not aware at Leigh during 09-12 but this can certainly effect a clubs attendance). 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

OK Ollie, as I said it is a personal interpretation, please for the benefit of discussion how do you see the sport developing if it returns to a closed shop and funding to clubs below SL is no more, I am quite happy to say I think it will devastate the game, as you have already stated you consider it to be a positive step and way forward, tell me why and how please.

Where have I said any of that? You interpret a lot, don’t you? 

I don’t see how the game can continue funding near on 40 sides, that’s not me saying that I think a closed shop is better or a step forward.