Who would you choose to be relegated from SL?

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, jim_57 said:

Rugby League in England isn't big enough to sustain P&R in the modern sports environment. These days you can live stream pretty much any sport/competition on the planet from your own lounge room, what incentive is there for fans to be 'loyal' to a relegated club? Why would these people watch 2nd tier sport when they have hundreds of 1st tier comps at the click of their finger, let alone all other non-sport activities.

Blind loyalty is a dying trend.

Is it indeed ? 

Clueless 

[aj1908]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

You obviously don’t understand that in the UK people tend to support a team (usually their local one from when they were growing up and/or the one their family supported) and stick with them, they don’t swap to a more successful team when their own has a bad spell. Some might stop going to watch but they don’t start watching another more successful team. 

Blind loyalty as you call it is not dying here. 

Yeh that's bs

How many bandwagon fans for when man utd go well or Liverpool now or city before 

 

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, jim_57 said:

Rugby League in England isn't big enough to sustain P&R in the modern sports environment. These days you can live stream pretty much any sport/competition on the planet from your own lounge room, what incentive is there for fans to be 'loyal' to a relegated club? Why would these people watch 2nd tier sport when they have hundreds of 1st tier comps at the click of their finger, let alone all other non-sport activities.

Blind loyalty is a dying trend.

It depends if you like other sports and your derryair is firmly planted on your couch, me I will and do pay to go along to RL, Cricket and Golf, soccer, tennis, horse racing, union keep them and I wouldn't even waste electricity turning the TV on to watch them.

It just goes to show, we are all not the same.

Isn't every supporter as in those who actually attend their chosen teams/individuals in whatever sport you care to mention victims of blind loyalty, or does it suit your argument to just align it to Rugby League.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

48 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Yeh that's bs

How many bandwagon fans for when man utd go well or Liverpool now or city before 

 

Are they fans of other clubs though? or are they just casual, TV watching sports fans that don't normally go to live sports but have been caught up in the excitement and decided to attend a live game in which case good on them for getting off their bums! 

[aj1908]

1 minute ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Are they fans of other clubs though? or are they just casual, TV watching sports fans that don't normally go to live sports but have been caught up in the excitement and decided to attend a live game in which case good on them for getting off their bums! 

Lately I'm seeing so many Liverpool fc.shirts around and hardly any man utd 

Ten years ago it was.the opposite 

This is about.auatralia so not.ao much related.to last post

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

If blind loyalty isnt already dead, why do leigh get around 1.5k when they were struggling and scratching around the bottom of the championship, 2.5k when pushing for promotion and about 6.5k when in SL?

You can only answer that question if the ones who only turned up when in SL , went watching somebody else when they weren't ?

Did those 5,000 dormant HKR fans go watching FC for a decade ?

[The Hallucinating Goose]

6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

You can only answer that question if the ones who only turned up when in SL , went watching somebody else when they weren't ?

Did those 5,000 dormant HKR fans go watching FC for a decade ?

Quite right. 

Also I seem to remember KR season ticket sales actually went up when they were relegated the other year. 

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, aj1908 said:

I am not a fan of p.and r  I think it's a ridiculous system 

However the last time frnxhasing was tried there was a small of death about the non sl clubs

As.people say many current sl clubs were bad previously 

The beat solution is what we had before 

Ringfince certain teams from relegation that are crucial.to the sport 

And have p and r for heartland teams 

If Widnes come.in to replace wakey your getting very similar.clubs in terms of crowds or finances 

Applying p and r to Catalans or Toronto is just stupid.  I'd also give Salford and London immunity as well

This would also allow Ottowa and toulose to be fast tracked into sl

I just don't understand this clamour to ring fence teams from relegation when they are competing for the same prizes as the other teams in the same division, if a team has no threat of relegation it can influence the competition in respect of manufacturing results both for those vying for the leaders of the comp and those under the threat of relegation, it makes a mockery of the concept of a sporting competition.

Last season with no ring fencing, Saints chose to put more of the second string of their squad than they would normally do in two fixtures against London which they lost, no manipulation whatsoever on Saints part they were just rotating their squad, but without any shadow of a doubt if Saints had treated those fixtures as they would against quite a few other teams they would have won those games, London without those 4 points would have rendered HKR, Hudds and Wakey safe, I should think there would have been a lot to say if one of those three teams had been relegated which could directly have the finger pointed to Saints twice playing a weakend team to London, that is how easy it would be for a ring fenced team to manipulate results.

Take P&R from what is an inbred British sporting function renders it false as a contest, I don't care what they do in the NRL it has never been part of the sporting culture of that league so it works over there here it doesn't.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, aj1908 said:

Yeh that's bs

How many bandwagon fans for when man utd go well or Liverpool now or city before 

 

Not many, and those people don’t go to the match anyway so are irrelevant. 

[Eddie]

23 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

If blind loyalty isnt already dead, why do leigh get around 1.5k when they were struggling and scratching around the bottom of the championship, 2.5k when pushing for promotion and about 6.5k when in SL?

Because some people opt not to go when their team isn’t playing well, I doubt many of them go to watch other teams when Leigh are playing poorly. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Did those 5,000 dormant HKR fans go watching FC for a decade ?

I bet some youngsters who grew up watching Hull FC in Super League did.

If KR disappeared tomorrow, then a big chunk of fans would also disappear. But over time, those youngsters with no affiliation who are predisposed to enjoying rugby over soccer would gravitate towards Hull FC as the biggest game in town. I expect the same would happen with Leigh and youngsters gravitating to Wigan. 

Kids will see something that inspires them and gravitate towards that. It's why some kids in India fall in love with Manchester United, for example. And now the same thing is happening with Liverpool, because they're the big team who are inspiring youngsters. 15-20 years ago it was Arsenal and Chelsea. This has been the case throughout my lifetime, with very few kids at school wearing shirts of the local football team, and most wearing shirts of whoever was most successful at the time.

Moreover, by your logic, any fans that a club loses due to relegation would be replaced by an equivalent number of fans supporting the promoted club, so any difference in overall support for the game would therefore be negligible. I personally don't think this is the case, as some clubs are bigger than others, which is why I believe that the game needs to ring-fence those bigger clubs.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

 

Moreover, by your logic, any fans that a club loses due to relegation would be replaced by an equivalent number of fans supporting the promoted club, so any difference in overall support for the game would therefore be negligible. I personally don't think this is the case, as some clubs are bigger than others, which is why I believe that the game needs to ring-fence those bigger clubs.

So it's the big clubs that need protection ? 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

So not blindly loyal then

If you are going down that route then you have to look at % s of population , how well do Leeds do on that one ?

See it's easy to find fault if you look hard enough 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

So it's the big clubs that need protection ? 

For me, yes. I believe we need the biggest clubs with the biggest supporter bases (or the potential for the biggest supporter bases, given typical fluctations around form) ring-fenced in the top division in order to maximise commercial opportunities.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

There is obviously some cross-over but I think this arguemnt misses the important point.

That is Hull KR and Hull FC fighting over the same 20k fans when there is nigh on half a million in their local market. 

Those 5000 werent dormant HKR fans, they werent really fans of anything at all. They hasnt been attending Rovers and HKR were 20 years from being a bigger side. For them to be dormant fans who stopped attending as HKR slipped down the leagues then they would need to all be 40 and 50 years old to have been attending back when HKR were winning things. I don't think that is true.

 

As you well know quite often it is family loyalties due to location , but feel free to act stupid if you want ?

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

If you are going down that route then you have to look at % s of population , how well do Leeds do on that one ?

Not from a commercial point of view. It's about total numbers. Total numbers of eyes of branding, total numbers of subscriptions sold etc. The Leeds support may be a smaller proportion of cake compared to somewhere like Leigh or Featherstone, big it's a far far bigger cake.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

For me, yes. I believe we need the biggest clubs with the biggest supporter bases (or the potential for the biggest supporter bases, given typical fluctations around form) ring-fenced in the top division in order to maximise commercial opportunities.

I'm sure we'll all feel plenty of sympathy for them 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Not from a commercial point of view. It's about total numbers. Total numbers of eyes of branding, total numbers of subscriptions sold etc. The Leeds support may be a smaller proportion of cake compared to somewhere like Leigh or Featherstone, big it's a far far bigger cake.

It was loyalty we were discussing , why comment about something you have no understanding of ?

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It was loyalty we were discussing , why comment about something you have no understanding of ?

That's a bit disappointing - I thought you were above childish comments and wanted a genuine discussion which is why you kept coming back to it. I'm out.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

That's a bit disappointing - I thought you were above childish comments and wanted a genuine discussion which is why you kept coming back to it. I'm out.

Good , as I said , I don't enter into discussions if I don't have any understanding of the subject , certainly not without accepting my limitations at the start 

[GUBRATS]

22 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

There is obviously some cross-over but I think this arguemnt misses the important point.

That is Hull KR and Hull FC fighting over the same 20k fans when there is nigh on half a million in their local market. 

Those 5000 werent dormant HKR fans, they werent really fans of anything at all. They hasnt been attending Rovers and HKR were 20 years from being a bigger side. For them to be dormant fans who stopped attending as HKR slipped down the leagues then they would need to all be 40 and 50 years old to have been attending back when HKR were winning things. I don't think that is true.

 

So they weren't HKR fans ? , They weren't fans of anything at all ? , So if you don't attend , you aren't a fan ? , Is that what you are saying ? 

[Harry Stottle]

28 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

If you are going down that route then you have to look at % s of population , how well do Leeds do on that one ?

See it's easy to find fault if you look hard enough 

LEEDS best supported team through the turnstiles the figures are testament to that, also worst supported team in terms of demographics i.e. the local populas % of Leeds who care to go.

[Eddie]

49 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

So not blindly loyal then

You’re deliberately missing the point. Why that discussion originally started is because someone said that nowadays people swap teams, which they don’t. 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

It's weird how Bradford and huddersfield are castigated for going out of their area and how Bradford's bullmania era destroyed keighley but no fans swap clubs.

The game really needs to get out this idea that each club is fighting over a finite number of fans who have always been fans and are either dormant or latent. 

It is only you claiming that , but it is a fact that once a loyalty is established , it rarely changes , those without loyalty either way are obviously available for all to catch 

But you know ALL this 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

In saying they werent fans. I'm saying they were largely new fans not dormant fans.

I'd also point out that during the time Hull fc were in SL and Hull KR werent, Hull FCs crowds grew rapidly

Our crowds grew rapidly when we moved to the kcom actually, the first few years of super league when we were still at the boulevard they were pretty constant at around 5-6000 before shooting up to 11,000 when we moved to a modern, better located, more visible and let's face it, more appealing stadium.