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scotchy1

championship streaming and the future

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I read this article which i thought was interesting https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/editors-column-streaming-on-the-road-to-rugby-leagues-uncertain-future/

it certainly poses some interesting questions about what the RFL are using OurLeague for, when and how they expect a return and gives some context to which the championship is operating in as a small competition.

Edited by scotchy1

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The RFL don't seem to care about travelling fans, yet here is a great opportunity to embrace them. Many fans will travel all over the country, but overseas travel to Toulouse, or Toronto last year, can prove beyond their budget or home or work commitments. If far away games are not being broadcast or streamed clubs should have the rights to do their own live streaming, either to their own TV channels or back to their clubhouse. The dedicated away traveller won't be put off by this as they already spend hundreds, if not thousands, and a small charge could be levied to compensate the home side for any loss of revenue.

Streaming must be allowed from any new overseas venues, and why not London & Cumbria? We are spoilt by the M62 corridor making it easy for away travel, apart from the few exceptions from farther afield.

I don't think Sky would allow this however, they would rather we stayed at home and watched the soccer on TV! 

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I’m sure I read that the most watched game on Our League last season was Oldham v Newcastle, with 6,000 viewers. Assuming then that a lot of games got far fewer viewers than that, it doesn’t make the platform a very attractive proposition to anyone who wants to make money. 

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Just now, Eddie said:

I’m sure I read that the most watched game on Our League last season was Oldham v Newcastle, with 6,000 viewers. Assuming then that a lot of games got far fewer viewers than that, it doesn’t make the platform a very attractive proposition to anyone who wants to make money. 

Which was a Play-Off Final, so a big game. 

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You can knock The RFL for many, many things but making the decision to move live streams to 6.15pm on a Sunday is a good idea. A number of potential viewers with a vested interest in the Championship will, likely, be at home by kick-off time. 

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i think the regular kick off time is a big thing. Regularity is a big thing, people should know without looking where RL is. 6:15 Sunday is Championship RL time.

However i think the bigger question is what what the plan is to create something of enough size to be worthwhile.

5-10k viewers isnt really worth anything. How is our league going to create value out of them? I think the price elasticity of those 5-10k would be interesting. I think that the people who will seek out OurLeague, spend time registering, finding a way to watch, watching a game on their phone or streaming to tv etc are probably happy to pay a bit of money for that so the drop off for charging would probably be much smaller than you would usually expect. How much is the question.

You are going to have to charge an awful lot to make a base that small worthwhile. So that doesnt really seem a good plan.

So if they idea is just to get eyeballs, why OurLeague? Why not youtube? or Facebook? who have much bigger potential audiences. Whats the benefit of this platform?

Its difficult to know what the plan is. Its also difficult to see how the championship can operate as it does at the moment which is almost attempting to be a competitor to SL but without the critical mass needed to sustain a pro comp. It doesnt hold the interest of enough people ot get casuals watching.

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It's a bold venture by the RFL and they should be applauded for essentially becoming a broadcaster with an eye on the next TV deal (and the inevitable streaming future).

The plan is simply to sell the content. Plan A seems to be a juicy TV deal with a broadcaster with perhaps the RFL providing the content produced in-house.

Plan B would be monetizing the games shown on OuRLeague. For me that should be a subscription service like Watch NRL and not pay-per-view (which would fail as did the England games). Personally, I'm not keen on watching phones (and casting), so I would like to see a  user-friendly app for connected TV platforms like Apple TV etc (again, like Watch NRL).  

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Championship games should not be broadcast live , we should however ( should have had for the last decade in truth ) have a highlights show with a feature game from both lower tiers and the trys from the rest , this would have cost peanuts to produce using primarily the disciplinary footage the RFL require as part of being a semi pro club 

That could be monetised via streaming or via advertising IMO

 

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16 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Championship games should not be broadcast live , we should however ( should have had for the last decade in truth ) have a highlights show with a feature game from both lower tiers and the trys from the rest , this would have cost peanuts to produce using primarily the disciplinary footage the RFL require as part of being a semi pro club 

That could be monetised via streaming or via advertising IMO

 

So what you’re saying is you think “it would cost peanuts” to have professional filming at 12 grounds a week (across three countries) with the footage then needed to be edited and compiled (likely by a third party) into an hour-long slot rather than having filming at one ground a weekend with the footage shown live? 

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5 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

So what you’re saying is you think “it would cost peanuts” to have professional filming at 12 grounds a week (across three countries) with the footage then needed to be edited and compiled (likely by a third party) into an hour-long slot rather than having filming at one ground a weekend with the footage shown live? 

He mentioned that he would only use the cameras that are already there for the disciplinary footage.

But this footage looks ######, and won't attract anyone else to the sport. We can't even get decent cameras at all the SL games, let alone below that level.

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Im not sure who would pay for a highlights show.

Perhaps someone would take it for free, but look at the difficulties SL has getting the Super League show on terrestrial and thats something the BBC pay for.

 

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2 hours ago, Steve Slater said:

The RFL don't seem to care about travelling fans, yet here is a great opportunity to embrace them. Many fans will travel all over the country, but overseas travel to Toulouse, or Toronto last year, can prove beyond their budget or home or work commitments. If far away games are not being broadcast or streamed clubs should have the rights to do their own live streaming, either to their own TV channels or back to their clubhouse. The dedicated away traveller won't be put off by this as they already spend hundreds, if not thousands, and a small charge could be levied to compensate the home side for any loss of revenue.

Streaming must be allowed from any new overseas venues, and why not London & Cumbria? We are spoilt by the M62 corridor making it easy for away travel, apart from the few exceptions from farther afield.

I don't think Sky would allow this however, they would rather we stayed at home and watched the soccer on TV! 

That's assuming travelling fans are only in the North. A club along the M62 corridor can be a "far away" game for many fans across the UK.

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"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

if the idea is just to get eyeballs, why OurLeague? Why not youtube? or Facebook? who have much bigger potential audiences. Whats the benefit of this platform?

This is a good point. YT would immediately multiply many times our reach, and it's now ubiquitous for many sports. Football and cricket highlights are now uploaded by rights holders very quickly. It's the go-to platform for many now. 

I suppose in theory the advantage of driving people towards OurLeague is that it becomes the one-stop shop of RL where clubs and governing bodies can cross sell tickets for SL and internationals, and the full range of merch. In fact there's sections for all of this on OurLeague, but as usual it's very thinly content wise, with most club product missing. 

<tosses grenade> I'd like to see CVC take over the running of OurLeague having bought controlling commercial rights for SL and England brands... 

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2 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

This is a good point. YT would immediately multiply many times our reach, and it's now ubiquitous for many sports. Football and cricket highlights are now uploaded by rights holders very quickly. It's the go-to platform for many now. 

I suppose in theory the advantage of driving people towards OurLeague is that it becomes the one-stop shop of RL where clubs and governing bodies can cross sell tickets for SL and internationals, and the full range of merch. In fact there's sections for all of this on OurLeague, but as usual it's very thinly content wise, with most club product missing. 

<tosses grenade> I'd like to see CVC take over the running of OurLeague having bought controlling commercial rights for SL and England brands... 

I can see the benefit of driving people toward OL. I think it has great potential, especially in bundling up packages of merch, tickets, subs, etc.

But it needs content and there isnt really any and its difficult to see how you create enough to drive people there. Especially without SL.

If they can get it right then its really valuable, I can see you getting good numbers of subscribers (50-100k) paying big prices (hundreds of pounds, maybe 1k a year) for a really good product. A really good complementary product. But what that would be is nowhere near what we are offering at the moment.

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1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

So what you’re saying is you think “it would cost peanuts” to have professional filming at 12 grounds a week (across three countries) with the footage then needed to be edited and compiled (likely by a third party) into an hour-long slot rather than having filming at one ground a weekend with the footage shown live? 

This was something I suggested 10 years ago , HD cameras were just starting to hit the market relatively cheaply , around £ 1500 at the time ( I was told this by a professional broadcaster who was actually helping out a Championship club produce content at the time ) , all clubs are required to provide disciplinary footage , so essentially 2 cameras at every game already , with some training ( could have been easily provided by working with the RFL ) it would have been easily good enough quality for  trys compilation 

The editing could also have been done relatively cheaply , again I was told there was plenty of software available at free or negligible cost , could have been tied in to a couple of colleges or university's as projects 

Add in a couple of extra better quality cameras for a couple of featured games and it was easily and cheaply possible 

I am a Championship club supporter , from my point of view , would I pay to stream a game not involving my club ? , Probably not , would I pay to stream to see all the trys from all the clubs my team will play along with a featured game ? Possibly 

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1 hour ago, Click said:

He mentioned that he would only use the cameras that are already there for the disciplinary footage.

But this footage looks ######, and won't attract anyone else to the sport. We can't even get decent cameras at all the SL games, let alone below that level.

Is streaming a live game going to attract anybody new to the sport ? , Is that it's intention ? 

Are they using quality equipment , and have they been trained ? , Or is it just being done , because it has to be ?

Are you going to pay to watch Dewsbury v Fax ?

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Is streaming a live game going to attract anybody new to the sport ? , Is that it's intention ? 

Are they using quality equipment , and have they been trained ? , Or is it just being done , because it has to be ?

Are you going to pay to watch Dewsbury v Fax ?

1) If they are just being streamed on OurLeague, then no, it won't attract anyone new to the sport

2) the OurLeague cameras and staff seems to be quite good - I am not sure what you are referring to now, are you speaking about the current footage we get from these games at the moment?

3) Online? Most likely not.

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As I said , I suggested this 10 years ago , so pre OL , could have been initially put out on YouTube and chased sponsorship 

I don't believe you will ever get enough subscribers to individual games broadcast live , it is numbers through the turnstiles lower tier clubs need , not more opportunity for people to not bother attending , I don't have OL , but from what I've just read , it sounds to me the main reason the RFL would have it for us to sell ' extras ' that don't actually help the clubs being streamed 

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Unless OurLeague are going to somehow find a large amount of cash and are going to bid for Super League games, unlikely, I know, I can’t see how they can put a paywall on the app. Even streaming Super League reserve games and/or Academy games probably isn’t a good enough “excuse” to put a paywall in place either. 

You can watch all British Basketball League live on YouTube. I’d be interested to know how their attendance figures have/haven’t been effected by the games shown live on YouTube. 

 

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

As I said , I suggested this 10 years ago , so pre OL , could have been initially put out on YouTube and chased sponsorship 

I don't believe you will ever get enough subscribers to individual games broadcast live , it is numbers through the turnstiles lower tier clubs need , not more opportunity for people to not bother attending , I don't have OL , but from what I've just read , it sounds to me the main reason the RFL would have it for us to sell ' extras ' that don't actually help the clubs being streamed 

That sort of myopia is endemic throughout the game, it is what results in SL having loop fixtures because some clubs can't function without 13 home games or people going on about "away fans".

Bigger audiences need to be reached by clubs and broadcasts are a huge part of that. French RL should be a lesson to anyone claiming that broadcasts are a threat to the game not an opportunity. In terms of sponsors for example, would I rather be seen by 2 and a half thousand people every week only or be seen by a significantly larger audience online as well?

The clubs now currently get funding for the number of "our league" members they have (you can put your team in as part of the app). The RFL are well aware that the next broadcast deal is not going to be anywhere near as kind to the Championship and League 1 as the current arrangement is and so they are preparing for that. By showing games they've been trying to show demand for the fixtures so that a deal may come about. Realistically they need somewhere between 4.5 to 6 million a year to match current levels of central distribution (based on 75k for League 1 clubs and an average of 250k for Championship). OL and hopefully YouTube broadcasts will help justify a broadcaster spending anything like that.

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That sort of myopia is endemic throughout the game, it is what results in SL having loop fixtures because some clubs can't function without 13 home games or people going on about "away fans".

Bigger audiences need to be reached by clubs and broadcasts are a huge part of that. French RL should be a lesson to anyone claiming that broadcasts are a threat to the game not an opportunity. In terms of sponsors for example, would I rather be seen by 2 and a half thousand people every week only or be seen by a significantly larger audience online as well?

The clubs now currently get funding for the number of "our league" members they have (you can put your team in as part of the app). The RFL are well aware that the next broadcast deal is not going to be anywhere near as kind to the Championship and League 1 as the current arrangement is and so they are preparing for that. By showing games they've been trying to show demand for the fixtures so that a deal may come about. Realistically they need somewhere between 4.5 to 6 million a year to match current levels of central distribution (based on 75k for League 1 clubs and an average of 250k for Championship). OL and hopefully YouTube broadcasts will help justify a broadcaster spending anything like that.

I don't believe they will get any paying deal at all , no matter what they do , I do believe they could collectively get income streams by having their total content broadcast not live , we will disagree on this 

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6 hours ago, Eddie said:

I’m sure I read that the most watched game on Our League last season was Oldham v Newcastle, with 6,000 viewers. Assuming then that a lot of games got far fewer viewers than that, it doesn’t make the platform a very attractive proposition to anyone who wants to make money. 

Probably because the only people watching where from Oldham and Newcastle , so which other L1 or Championship clubs care going to get many more ?

Serious questions

Championship club fans , are you going to watch 2 other teams than your own being streamed on Sunday nights at 6.30 ?

SL fans , are you going to watch a L1 or Championship match bring streamed at 6.30 on Sunday nights at 6.30 ?

All RL fans , would you watch a L1 and Championship highlights show with a featured game from both leagues and the trys from the rest if you could tune in any time on YouTube or the like ?

Honest answers only please 

Edited by GUBRATS

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

SL fans , are you going to watch a L1 or Championship match bring streamed at 6.30 on Sunday nights at 6.30 ?

Yes, I am.


"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I can see the benefit of driving people toward OL. I think it has great potential, especially in bundling up packages of merch, tickets, subs, etc.

But it needs content and there isnt really any and its difficult to see how you create enough to drive people there. Especially without SL.

If they can get it right then its really valuable, I can see you getting good numbers of subscribers (50-100k) paying big prices (hundreds of pounds, maybe 1k a year) for a really good product. A really good complementary product. But what that would be is nowhere near what we are offering at the moment.

100 million quid a year...who needs SKY (or CVC)?

Combine this with your 9's idea Scotchy and you'll soon be able to buy out Murdoch et al, pay off Headingley, buy and refurb Elland Road and build every SL club a new ground..

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