New coach for England (Merged Threads)

[andyscoot]

9 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Sorry, I phrased that a bit wrong, I meant I certainly think the role needs to be full time. Of course him not having any other jobs and being in England, I don't see why it can't be full time. 

He does a lot of work outside of rugby nowadays, doing talks to companies about building a strong culture and motivating people. 

[tuutaisrambo]

So looks like Sinfield stepped down cos he wanted to keep Bennett on?

He can concentrate on relegating Leeds Rhinos now

Would have been happy with either Wane or Powell getting the job to be honest.... both good candidates although I still think Bennett is a better coach than either of them....... it just doesn't work having a coach that is based in Australia.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

Can't wait for a new England elite squad announcement, said nobody.....this'll be about the 4th draft in 12 months or so? 

I do think it was the right time to change things up however and Wane will definitely do that. He has 9 months to get us prepped for our hardest test series in years - losing that 3-0 at home is not an option. Not to derail this into an age old argument but personally, whilst I had no issue with Austin/Hastings inclusion in the Lions squad under the heritage rules, if Wane comes in and it becomes clear he's not going down that route then I think that would please a lot of people myself included. 

[paulwalker71]

25 minutes ago, tuutaisrambo said:

So looks like Sinfield stepped down cos he wanted to keep Bennett on?

Or, alternatively, Wane said he'd only take the job if Sinfield wasn't anywhere near it?

[Angelic Cynic]

10 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Sorry, I phrased that a bit wrong, I meant I certainly think the role needs to be full time. Of course him not having any other jobs and being in England, I don't see why it can't be full time. 

  I wonder if the owners of Super League clubs instructed the RFL that having a head coach currently in employment would not be permitted to also do a part time national head coach job?

  I get the impression that the parameters of the job changes with each appointment.

  It also appears that when it comes to the England head coach being afforded a bit of loyalty and longevity the RFL and Kevin Sinfield have different opinions - https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/steve-mcnamara-should-england-rugby-7282165

 I wonder how long the press and media support the man now in charge?

[Harry Stottle]

On 14/01/2020 at 19:49, OMEGA said:

 

1. 100%! Bennett knew so little about U.K. based players that he tried to recruit the Morris twins, Ben Hannant, Chris McQueen, Chris Heighington and any other has been Australians who had a grandparent from the U.K., which is only 90% of the Ausie population! He didn’t have a clue who Tommy Makinson was despite him being a star player for one of SLs top clubs for almost a decade and his first question to Tom Johnstone was “who are you” ffs! We played an Aliance style of RL that IMO robbed us of the best chance to win a World Cup since the 70s.

2. Bennett’s record in rep rugby league is not that good! He has one of the worst win % as both Queensland & Australia coach despite those teams being two of THE most dominant in World sport!

3. Totally justified criticism it was a sh*7 show and the buck stops with Wayne Bennett!

4. I know there wasn’t a 4 but I’m adding one! Bennett’s truculence with the media is a disaster for U.K. Rugby League. He can get away with it in Sydney, Brisbane or Australia and still get 8 pages of sport in the national newspapers or big features on TV. His ignorance of how we have to fight for a tiny iota of media recognition was unforgivable! The default attitude of editors is that they need no encouragement to say F’em and tell the few journalists we get not to bother, as National coach his attitude was abysmal.

Great Coach for Brisbane, brilliant domestically but not a good rep coach and a disaster for us.

I gave you a Thank You for these comments, as it echoed a lot of what I said prior, during and after the 'car crash' Bennett presided over in the Autumn.

Question, Has someone given Sinfield some advice re how effective Bennett actually is,  Sinfield was singing his praises post tour as was Peacock, Ward and Watson, a complete clear out and Wane to appoint his own men would be my way.

I can now go and watch my International team perform again, I vowed not to step onto another ground whilst Bennett still had jurisdiction on both selection and game planning, my only other hope is that Wane will select bona-fide English/British lads as apposed those who can't ever gain selection for their 'own country' so make themselves available for another, and in reflection did those 3 he included in the tour perform any better than we would have expected from others deserving selection?

[Dave T]

I am happy that we have changed coach, I am happy that he is UK based, I am happy that he is full time, and he has a very good success record, so I can’t complain at all about Wane tbh. I had a look at Bennet’s record as Eng/GB manager and tbh we just haven’t progressed since McNamara, and if you look at the last performances, we have gone backwards.

McNamara vs Bennett win ratios

Vs NZ – 43% v 43%

Vs Aus – 0% v 0%

Vs other – 82% v 80%

Total – 59% v 55%

Now it isn’t a perfect comparison as the fixtures aren’t like for like, but ultimately we had some good performances and some rubbish performances under both. But McNamara didn’t have anything anywhere near as bad as Bennet’s last 5 games in charge of Eng/GB – 3 defeats against NZ, then Tonga and then PNG. That is a disaster. We came close in the World Cup Final under Bennet, but our overall WC performances were uninspiring and we were ultimately nilled in that WC final.

The fact that McNamara can have a better win record than Bennet, suggests to me that Wane can absolutely improve our record even more, as he is a far better coach than McNamara imho.

Good to see Sinfield move on too, as ultimately his record in this and his Leeds role is rubbish and he is trading off his name.

[Harry Stottle]

22 hours ago, Mushy said:

The less Sinfield gets involved the better. 

[Dunbar]

Always difficult to guess what the politics behind these moves are but if I were to hazard a guess I would say that one of the conditions that Wane laid down was being the main decision maker and not reporting into a Head of Performance. 

I would say this is a good thing... a full time head coach should be fully autonomous and live and die by his own decisions and successes.

[Harry Stottle]

On 02/02/2020 at 08:31, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

England didn’t go on tour. Doesn’t make any sense to sack the England coach due to poor performances from Great Britain 

I had my suspicions that you weren't on the same page as most others in RL terms, but you have now just confirmed it

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Always difficult to guess what the politics behind these moves are but if I were to hazard a guess I would say that one of the conditions that Wane laid down was being the main decision maker and not reporting into a Head of Performance. 

I would say this is a good thing... a full time head coach should be fully autonomous and live and die by his own decisions and successes.

Totally agree, now please define Mr Sinfields role for me if you can, and will it be actually warented if we have an autonomous FULL TIME coach in charge?

[Dunbar]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Totally agree, now please define Mr Sinfields role for me if you can, and will it be actually warented if we have an autonomous FULL TIME coach in charge?

Well seeing as though Wane has been announced as replacing Bennett but the announcement on Sinfield is simply that he is stepping down, I think its pretty clear that his role is no longer required now we have a UK based full time coach.

[Jim Prendle]

2 hours ago, Just Browny said:

####ing knock people oot

Based on that criteria, maybe Steve Price should have been on the shortlist?

[aj1908]

37 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I am happy that we have changed coach, I am happy that he is UK based, I am happy that he is full time, and he has a very good success record, so I can’t complain at all about Wane tbh. I had a look at Bennet’s record as Eng/GB manager and tbh we just haven’t progressed since McNamara, and if you look at the last performances, we have gone backwards.

McNamara vs Bennett win ratios

Vs NZ – 43% v 43%

Vs Aus – 0% v 0%

Vs other – 82% v 80%

Total – 59% v 55%

Now it isn’t a perfect comparison as the fixtures aren’t like for like, but ultimately we had some good performances and some rubbish performances under both. But McNamara didn’t have anything anywhere near as bad as Bennet’s last 5 games in charge of Eng/GB – 3 defeats against NZ, then Tonga and then PNG. That is a disaster. We came close in the World Cup Final under Bennet, but our overall WC performances were uninspiring and we were ultimately nilled in that WC final.

The fact that McNamara can have a better win record than Bennet, suggests to me that Wane can absolutely improve our record even more, as he is a far better coach than McNamara imho.

Good to see Sinfield move on too, as ultimately his record in this and his Leeds role is rubbish and he is trading off his name.

At least you maintained your consistency against Australia 

[Jim Prendle]

20 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

If your criteria is 1. Super League Coach 2. English - then Daryl Powell is the standout candidate. The english coach that comes closest to turning water into wine in a Rugby League sense

Wigan are one of the top three clubs in the Country with the age group pathway to match, so its actualy easier to be a  successful coach when your resources are greater than the majority of your competitors.. Internationally the roles are reversed with the playing and junior strength in Australia and New Zealand with the pacific nations coming up fast on the rails.By contrast, as is commented on at length on TRL threads, paying numbers and the quality of Super League is down

Still It will be interesting when the behind the scenes team talk from Shaun Wane is broadcast after the watershed on sky

 

Have you ever stopped to wonder why Wigan have such a good pathway for the younger players?

A huge amount of the credit for that goes to Wane who spent a long time working as the coach to all of those young players. Why are Wigan more successful in bringing through young players? I'm not 100% sure, but it is true that every other club has the chance to find these youngsters, but don't.

Your obsession with Powell is weird as he has never shown the ability to coach his players to winning on the big stage, and international rugby is the biggest stage of all.

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, tuutaisrambo said:

So looks like Sinfield stepped down cos he wanted to keep Bennett on?

He can concentrate on relegating Leeds Rhinos now

Would have been happy with either Wane or Powell getting the job to be honest.... both good candidates although I still think Bennett is a better coach than either of them....... it just doesn't work having a coach that is based in Australia.

Agreed.  The trans australia method hasnt worked out for WB but like you, imo he is a better coach.  Couldve worked if they made him full time and I would have thought that would have been raised at his contract interview or report. 

I only hope Wane keeps the coaches that are backs, in his backroom staff.  We need their input not just a forwards focus.

[Just Browny]

30 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Based on that criteria, maybe Steve Price should have been on the shortlist?

Neither advocates a particularly expansive game plan. Wane is English, has been around UK RL forever and doesn't have a club job so seems a more obvious choice than Price.

[Harry Stottle]

37 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Well seeing as though Wane has been announced as replacing Bennett but the announcement on Sinfield is simply that he is stepping down, I think its pretty clear that his role is no longer required now we have a UK based full time coach.

Thanks for the clarification Dunbar, must say I was a little bit previous with my question I have not read the report I just saw the thread headline and jumped in!

[Harry Stottle]

27 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Agreed.  The trans australia method hasnt worked out for WB but like you, imo he is a better coach.  Couldve worked if they made him full time and I would have thought that would have been raised at his contract interview or report. 

I only hope Wane keeps the coaches that are backs, in his backroom staff.  We need their input not just a forwards focus.

Has as been suggested already, get Paul Deacon back as an assistant, our national team as not played better rugby than when he was assistant to Steve Mac, we played a flat game previously under SM until his appointment and have continued to do so ever since, so I assume that Deacon must be the one responsible for the improvement. 

[Mr Frisky]

I see there is a BBC HYS on this so watch the usual negative trolling comments to start, not just on SW but on RL in general.

Now Sir Kev has gone would be good to see the full breakdown of the England set up and who does what - Is JP still working for England for example?

[Jim Prendle]

16 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Neither advocates a particularly expansive game plan. Wane is English, has been around UK RL forever and doesn't have a club job so seems a more obvious choice than Price.

No, but Price's team have the more recent experience at knocking people out.

[Harry Stottle]

33 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Have you ever stopped to wonder why Wigan have such a good pathway for the younger players?

A huge amount of the credit for that goes to Wane who spent a long time working as the coach to all of those young players. Why are Wigan more successful in bringing through young players? I'm not 100% sure, but it is true that every other club has the chance to find these youngsters, but don't.

Your obsession with Powell is weird as he has never shown the ability to coach his players to winning on the big stage, and international rugby is the biggest stage of all.

I agree Wane has done a fantastic job with the youth of Wigan, but you make him sound as though he was the innovator of the Wigan youth system he just carried on that fine Institution, yes other clubs could do the same but don't ever forget that Wigan not only develop some great players they also reject more that anyone other club from the youngsters they bring into their system such are the numbers they speculate on from anywhere in RL land, not just from the town of Wigan.

[Jim Prendle]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

I agree Wane has done a fantastic job with the youth of Wigan, but you make him sound as though he was the innovator of the Wigan youth system he just carried on that fine Institution, yes other clubs could do the same but don't ever forget that Wigan not only develop some great players they also reject more that anyone other club from the youngsters they bring into their system such are the numbers they speculate on from anywhere in RL land, not just from the town of Wigan.

And as I said earlier, what is to stop every other club from speculating in such a way?

And Wane was a driving force behind the youth development at Wigan, both as a youth coach, and as first team coach.

[Man of Kent]

Will be interesting to see if Wane sticks with Austin and Hastings.

Personally I'm conflicted. They are useful players and I wouldn't dismiss them simply for not being born Englishmen. On the other hand, I'd prefer the likes of Truman and Connor blooded with a view to the Ashes and World Cup. 

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

No, but Price's team have the more recent experience at knocking people out.

I would wager Shaun O'Loughlin throughout his carrier would be more responsible for inflicting head injuries than all the present Wire team, that is not an anti Wigan comment I have been a big fan of O'Loughlin, it is an observation anyone who watches the game can not possibly miss.