headtackle Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 21 hours ago, Emosi Koloto said: Did anyone see Chris Arkwright play, I seem to remember him being a skilful backrower yes and seem to remember the same John Wilkin could have been although for various reasons spent a lot of his career playing out of position Shane Cooper was a genius at 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Leon Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Anyone remember a ball playing forward from Cas , Barry Johnson, think injury ended his career but rarely got tackled with the ball without offloading .David Solomona took some beating though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 You would be hard pressed to find a more skilful forward than John Asiata from the North Queensland Cowboys. He is equally at home at prop, loose forward and stand off which demonstrates a fair skill set. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentoffagain2 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 12 hours ago, Rupert Prince said: And a centre and play 11 a side, slightly narrow pitch. Stop tacking Ballcocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 12 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said: Stop tacking Ballcocks Better than 9s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segovia Carpet Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Ray Batten was brilliant - Derek Turner further back & another worth a shout was Rod Smith at Swinton & Town & of course Charlie Winslade (Oldham & Wire) & Dai Moses (Salford) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Vegas Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 On 18/01/2020 at 22:29, The King Of Leon said: Anyone remember a ball playing forward from Cas , Barry Johnson, think injury ended his career but rarely got tackled with the ball without offloading .David Solomona took some beating though Agree with both points. We've been lucky at Cas with our ball-playing No.10s; Johnny Ward, Brian Lockwood, Barry, Malcolm (eventually, as he aged), Lee Crooks, Andy Lynch & Grant Millington. "Australia is a spoiled nation. They can expect my revenge. I'm not crazy when I say this, they are the crazy ones who give you hot sausages before the match when it's 40 degrees celsius outside." -------------------------- "Shifty Matty Petersen trying to get in there with a little five-fingered discount." Franklin Field, Philadelphia, 30/11/2004 -------------------------- FourthThird Second Best Statement Ever: Student Ram 02/06/2004 (Without a trace of irony): "... because, when you think about it, really... Wakefield is kind of the centre of the universe. You know, both ways, you've got..." Followed by a half a minute justification of this point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfolly Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 What about David Heron at Leeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 What are we classing as a 'ball handling loose forward'? It's a made up term/role with no definition as to what it actually is which has led to suggestions ranging from Scott Murrell to Gareth Hock. The 13 role definitely changed around 15 years ago and went down the 3rd prop route but the 'traditional' 13 role has come back a little recently and it all depends on the coach, his tactics and players available to him. A forward with a good offload isn't really a ball playing 13 and most forwards have a pass in them these days. If we were to have a true definition of the role it would be one of those Steve Norton types who would carry the ball when needed and start plays at other times. James Graham at Canterbury was the perfect example of the old style ball playing 13 (even though he was named at prop). Any of the middle unit can do this job these days and many do. There is a step further when you play a full on pivot at 13, something rarely done but happens occasionally. Daryl Powell isn't afraid to do this now and again. When at Fev he had Jonny Hepworth and Kyle Briggs in the role at times. Milner kind of does that role now at Cas although he does get through a lot of work. John Kear used to stick about 6 ball handlers on at Wakey in some games and Paul Cooke had some time at 13. If you are confident that they can defend in the middle and your other forwards have the engine to pick up the extra work (or you have wingers chipping in more) then you can get a lot of benefit from the extra pivot in the middle with split halves and full back attacking either side. Coaches obviously like to play percentages though and at least start with 3 big men and try and win the energy battle in the middle. Things are cyclical and assuming NRL teams don't have ball playing forwards is ridiculous just like the romantic notion that we will beat them by 'throwing the ball about' like in the 60's. The game has simply evolved and coaches employ whatever tactics they think suit the players they have. The players are at least as skillful, probably more skillful than at any time in the games history. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Nash Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 The more I've thought about this the more I agree. The last good ball playing 13 I can remember for the Dons was Rob Turner and that was 27 years ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Tex Evans Thigh said: What are we classing as a 'ball handling loose forward'? It's a made up term/role with no definition as to what it actually is which has led to suggestions ranging from Scott Murrell to Gareth Hock. The 13 role definitely changed around 15 years ago and went down the 3rd prop route but the 'traditional' 13 role has come back a little recently and it all depends on the coach, his tactics and players available to him. A forward with a good offload isn't really a ball playing 13 and most forwards have a pass in them these days. If we were to have a true definition of the role it would be one of those Steve Norton types who would carry the ball when needed and start plays at other times. James Graham at Canterbury was the perfect example of the old style ball playing 13 (even though he was named at prop). Any of the middle unit can do this job these days and many do. There is a step further when you play a full on pivot at 13, something rarely done but happens occasionally. Daryl Powell isn't afraid to do this now and again. When at Fev he had Jonny Hepworth and Kyle Briggs in the role at times. Milner kind of does that role now at Cas although he does get through a lot of work. John Kear used to stick about 6 ball handlers on at Wakey in some games and Paul Cooke had some time at 13. If you are confident that they can defend in the middle and your other forwards have the engine to pick up the extra work (or you have wingers chipping in more) then you can get a lot of benefit from the extra pivot in the middle with split halves and full back attacking either side. Coaches obviously like to play percentages though and at least start with 3 big men and try and win the energy battle in the middle. Things are cyclical and assuming NRL teams don't have ball playing forwards is ridiculous just like the romantic notion that we will beat them by 'throwing the ball about' like in the 60's. The game has simply evolved and coaches employ whatever tactics they think suit the players they have. The players are at least as skillful, probably more skillful than at any time in the games history. Agree with every word of this. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 On 15/01/2020 at 11:49, del capo said: I would put Mike Gregory up there with them Cracking honest player Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits. http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Vegas Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 6 hours ago, fairfolly said: What about David Heron at Leeds. Meh. Better than me, but that's not saying much. TBF Wayne was the better one. "Australia is a spoiled nation. They can expect my revenge. I'm not crazy when I say this, they are the crazy ones who give you hot sausages before the match when it's 40 degrees celsius outside." -------------------------- "Shifty Matty Petersen trying to get in there with a little five-fingered discount." Franklin Field, Philadelphia, 30/11/2004 -------------------------- FourthThird Second Best Statement Ever: Student Ram 02/06/2004 (Without a trace of irony): "... because, when you think about it, really... Wakefield is kind of the centre of the universe. You know, both ways, you've got..." Followed by a half a minute justification of this point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Vegas Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Tex Evans Thigh said: What style would you like to see? Forwards pass the ball plenty in the modern game, I don't know why you think they don't. Do you prefer a slower game? That is the biggest difference in the game as it has evolved. Nostalgia isn't what it used to be I'll tell thee. Aye. "Australia is a spoiled nation. They can expect my revenge. I'm not crazy when I say this, they are the crazy ones who give you hot sausages before the match when it's 40 degrees celsius outside." -------------------------- "Shifty Matty Petersen trying to get in there with a little five-fingered discount." Franklin Field, Philadelphia, 30/11/2004 -------------------------- FourthThird Second Best Statement Ever: Student Ram 02/06/2004 (Without a trace of irony): "... because, when you think about it, really... Wakefield is kind of the centre of the universe. You know, both ways, you've got..." Followed by a half a minute justification of this point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 13 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said: What style would you like to see? Forwards pass the ball plenty in the modern game, I don't know why you think they don't. Do you prefer a slower game? That is the biggest difference in the game as it has evolved. Nostalgia isn't what it used to be I'll tell thee. I sympathise with you, and also your above comments, but I also take one board what "RL does..." says. I think speed is too "quick". Perhaps what I am saying is that "distance", yardage, is too "easy". Add to that, the play the ball is too uncontested. A good tackle should be rewarded, and conversely a good attacker should be rewarded if he has carried to ball up well. This is a step away from the issue of handling skills of the 13. As I have sugested previously the 13 had a multi role. Players are still skillful i think, but the role of 13 is spread out. The game has changed because of the 11 yard line, for the worse... exacerbated by multiple replacements. The analogy to me is a bit like 2020 cricket, where it's too easy to slog sixes. This latter game is easy on the eye, but it's a corruption of the mind. On the subject of sixes, I would support a 6m (7 yards...) line and the pitch marked out in multiples of 6. Why do we obsess about the decimal system... but here we reach to my own prejudices! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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