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37 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

In the modern game we should do away with 13 and play without a loose forward.Fewer interchanges so the forward tire and the backs have a bit of room to play in.

NO

Cut the interchanges even more instead. ( I appreciate this is slowly happening and for the reason below )

We have followed the NFL/NRL / insurance argument of exposing the players  for too long.. Our game is an aggressive invasion sport that includes attrition as a strategy.. I'm not suggesting going back to the times of Alan  Prescott and the Rourke's Drift Test but the sooner we can tire the big guys the more opportunity we will be giving to those with craft and guile........ and the loose forward will  once more become the chess  masters of TGG....

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Brad Walker, Probably the reason why he hasn’t broken thru just yet because he is the old fashioned style ball playing lock. I still think his time will come.


Everything under the sun is in tune

But the sun is eclipsed by the moon

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gary divorty

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the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but the crows are just as black

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I always though that Lee Gaskell would develop into a ball playing 13 in his younger days. Decent kicker, passer, good vision but reasonably strong.

Mind you, at that time I was telling anyone who would listen that Gary Wheeler was going to be a top class, international stand off!

Edited by Chris22

Twitter: @TrylineBlog 
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5 hours ago, fairfolly said:

Why has nobody mentioned the best 13 for years,still nobody near him in this day and age, Mal Reilly at Cas.

Same era, Ray Batten at Leeds was quality, with Bob Haigh the finisher on many occasions. 

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Harry Pinner & Shane Cooper - Saints

Gavin Miller - Hull KR

Hanley - Wigan

Wayne Pearce - Aus/Balmain ?

Norton - Hull

6s and 7s boss the show now. The ball playing 13 is a thing of the past

 

 

 

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Ben Currie makes an amazingly talented ball-player at 13.

Seems like a lot of coaches like a 3rd prop there for some reason ☹️

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10 hours ago, Cheshire Setter said:

Ben Currie makes an amazingly talented ball-player at 13.

Seems like a lot of coaches like a 3rd prop there for some reason ☹️

I'm not sure I have really seen that in him. I think there is a big difference in a back rower with a good offload, and a ball handling 13.

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18 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Good shout - my only concern for him is that he did so well filling in at 9 for Jake Friend last year, his long term future may end up there when Friend retires. 

Don’t think so,young Sam Verrills looks to be the future 9.

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49 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure I have really seen that in him. I think there is a big difference in a back rower with a good offload, and a ball handling 13.

There have been occasions where he’s filled in at 6 throughout a game in the past, and he’s shown more than just a good pass. Excellent rugby brain, can pick the right option and even has a decent kicking game.  
 

Whether he has enough experience at doing it week in week out who knows, but I think had he been played at 13 in that type of role from day one he would have been great... a fancier version of the young Westerman we saw at Cas.

Edited by Cheshire Setter
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20 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Ball-playing 13s are yet another victim of our determination in this country to copy the style of RL from down-under. British RL used to be about throwing the ball about and allowing players to do things "off the cuff". However, we have now become obsessed in beating the Aussies rather than providing entertainment for those who actually support the game over here and, as such, the open-play style of ball-playing 13s has vanished.

Although we just might beat the Aussies once every so often (and we then always think "this is the turning point"), we will never constantly be up to their level - it is their major sport in the areas RL is played and they have far too many players to maintain their production line of talent at the highest level.

So if we want to return to ball-playing 13s (as well as the ball getting to the wingers for them to score the majority of tries following a good passing movement) then let's return to playing GB-style rugby and make it more open ... and more entertaining.

I actually (in a constructive way, I promise!) disagree with this in that unless you have the intensity then throwing the ball around won't be effective to win games.  Where we are behind the Aussies is that we mimic the intensity but it's at the cost of flair.  The Aussie game is more attritional BUT when they need to turn on the flair, they can do that as well.  So I agree we need to throw it about more but do it as well as matching the intensity.  NOT EASY!

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23 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Only ever been 2.

Mick Crane and Steve Norton.

John Joyner, Tawerea Nikau, Harry Pinner, to name 3 others - Knocker was different gravy though, I'll give you that one

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Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

Kevin Ward - best player I have ever seen

DSC04156_edited-1_thumb.jpg

The real Mick Gledhill is what you see on here, a Bradford fan ........, but deep down knows that Bradford are just not good enough to challenge the likes of Leeds & St Helens.

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Quite a few players have been mentioned on this thread who are skillful loose forwards. There are still a fair few of those about who can offload or play at the line. But there is a difference between skillful loose forwards and the playmaking loose forwards who run the team. There aren't many of those about these days.

We haven't had one in a Hull shirt since Jason Smith and Paul Cooke.

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22 hours ago, del capo said:

 I would put Mike Gregory up there with them

Yes. 

A number of names have been put forward, and all very good players at13. The question was about ball handlers at 13. And the classic ones that come to my mind are Pinner and Norton.  Of course my aging memory may be fading when I don't support some of the other contestants, there will be others.

But being a good 13 involves other skills and to me the overall quailty of a 13 is that he is the cement that binds the whole team. He must be intelligent. He must organise like a 7 (or a modern 9). He must link with the three quarters like 6. He must pass like a centre and finish like a winger. He must carry up the short yards like a prop and do it whilst the rest of the pack are knackered. At last resort he has to cover tackle like a full back.  And of course, the icing on the cake, he can magic away the ball in the tackle leaving opponents full of custard pie in their faces.

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23 minutes ago, MZH said:

Quite a few players have been mentioned on this thread who are skillful loose forwards. There are still a fair few of those about who can offload or play at the line. But there is a difference between skillful loose forwards and the playmaking loose forwards who run the team. There aren't many of those about these days.

We haven't had one in a Hull shirt since Jason Smith and Paul Cooke.

I agree. The kind of player I think of are the actual players who could interchange between 13 and 6 - certainly O'Loughlin, Sculthorpe, Sinfield, Farrell etc. but I'm not so sure about the likes of Mike Gregory.

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12 hours ago, headtackle said:

Harry Pinner & Shane Cooper - Saints

Gavin Miller - Hull KR

Hanley - Wigan

Wayne Pearce - Aus/Balmain ?

Norton - Hull

6s and 7s boss the show now. The ball playing 13 is a thing of the past

 

 

 

Ellery Hanley is the finest player I ever saw but I would not put him into the ball handling category. The same for Wayne Pearce who was more of an athletic ball carrier (personally I would put Mike Gregory in this category as well).

Gareth Hock has been mentioned but he was more of an off loading player than ball handler.

Of the classic ball handling 13's I caught the back end of Harry Pinner and I really rated Gavin Miller.

Of the modern players O'Loughlin had all the skills and before him Farrell and Sculthorpe.

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2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Don’t think so,young Sam Verrills looks to be the future 9.

Fair point mate. 

I hope he stays at 13 - between him and Cam Murray Aus/NSW have 2 great players with different styles for a generation to come. 

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The best 13 I think i've seen play for my club would be Rob Purdham, will always remember his kick from the scrum for England at the 2008? WC.

Great ball handling and kicking game. 

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5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Ellery Hanley is the finest player I ever saw but I would not put him into the ball handling category. The same for Wayne Pearce who was more of an athletic ball carrier (personally I would put Mike Gregory in this category as well).

Gareth Hock has been mentioned but he was more of an off loading player than ball handler.

Of the classic ball handling 13's I caught the back end of Harry Pinner and I really rated Gavin Miller.

Of the modern players O'Loughlin had all the skills and before him Farrell and Sculthorpe.

Hanley was for sure.  Didn't he also play 6 his ball sills.were that good.  Pearce wasn't agreed 

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2 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Hanley was for sure.  Didn't he also play 6 his ball sills.were that good.  Pearce wasn't agreed 

Hanley could play with 3/4, 6 or 13 on his back (even wing although he was wasted there) but in none of those positions was he a ball handler. He was a threat with the ball in his hands (and also a phenomenal defender) whatever positionhe played.

In some ways Hanley was a limited player as he wasn't a ball handler or tactical kicker but what made him special was that with the ball in his hands he was the best player I have ever seen by a huge distance. 

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2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Hanley could play with 3/4, 6 or 13 on his back (even wing although he was wasted there) but in none of those positions was he a ball handler. He was a threat with the ball in his hands (and also a phenomenal defender) whatever positionhe played.

In some ways Hanley was a limited player as he wasn't a ball handler or tactical kicker but what made him special was that with the ball in his hands he was the best player I have ever seen by a huge distance. 

I love Hanley  Balmain fan in the 80s.  He beat Cronulla with a solo try to get us to the 88 gf

Ball handling is passing skills?

So.What's.good.with ball in hand ? Just running it on his own ?

Edited by aj1908

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2 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

I love Hanley  Balmain fan in the 80s.  He beat Cronulla with a solo try to get us to the 88 gf

Ball handling is passing skills?

So.What's.good.with ball in hand ? Just running it on his own ?

Yes, I am referring to Hanley's running game which was by far is strongest attribute (although as I say he was a great defender with a huge work rate when he played 13 in particular).

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Just now, Dunbar said:

Yes, I am referring to Hanley's running game which was by far is strongest attribute (although as I say he was a great defender with a huge work rate when he played 13 in particular).

Yeh true his running game was.good.  that try he scored.vs Cronulla he forced his way over two or three players with brute.strengrh 

If.was.had him.in 89.Instead of currier we win the grand final.  But we didn't wanna pay his higher wages.and went for a budget option 

He certainly would've been the difference.  Black pearl was.special that's for sure 

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