Catalans push forward for last-gasp TV deal

[Total Rugby League]

Catalans haven’t given up hope of a last-minute television deal to ensure Super League games are broadcast live from Perpignan in 2020. Club chiefs are...

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[Eddie]

Hope so. I assume they haven’t asked Elstone to negotiate for them. 

[Big Picture]

Oh what Robert Elstone wrought from thinking that the tarted-up version of the old RFL Championship which has masqueraded as a Super League since 1996 was worth more from a French broadcaster than the 70,000 € which BeIN was reportedly paying before.

[aj1908]

Robert elstone where are you ?

[aj1908]

4 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Oh what Robert Elstone wrought from thinking that the tarted-up version of the old RFL Championship which has masqueraded as a Super League since 1996 was worth more from a French broadcaster than the 70,000 € which BeIN was reportedly paying before.

Doesn't bode well for his tenure does it

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I agree with Elstone here. No way should the RFL accept such a paltry offer. It devalues the future rights. If someone wants them, they need to pay what they're worth. If no one wants them, we'll just have to wait the long term. 

Rugby league has a history of devaluing itself. The current beIN offer is an insult. The fact Catalans have seen a rise in season ticket sales, and are enquiring whether it's too do with lack of TV presence is forcing them to come and watch, shows that they don't think it's too much of a deal (especially enough to have to pay themselves to get broadcast).

Stick to your guns. Play hardball here for sure.

[aj1908]

1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I agree with Elstone here. No way should the RFL accept such a paltry offer. It devalues the future rights. If someone wants them, they need to pay what they're worth. If no one wants them, we'll just have to wait the long term. 

Rugby league has a history of devaluing itself. The current beIN offer is an insult. The fact Catalans have seen a rise in season ticket sales, and are enquiring whether it's too do with lack of TV presence is forcing them to come and watch, shows that they don't think it's too much of a deal (especially enough to have to pay themselves to get broadcast).

Stick to your guns. Play hardball here for sure.

They accepted it.before for years 

And when he said no nobody stepped forward

There is little interest in them 

[manu266]

Eurosport France is the best option for me since it is available where I live but I doubt they will pay a lot for rugby league. 

Vià as a regional channel will pay even less. 

Is L'Équipe TV option dead?

I assume RMC, Canal+ have no interest?

 

[aj1908]

36 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

To a point.

A broadcast presence is necessary but we dont have to accept a paltry offer

it was paltry last time.  

nobody wanted to pay more for it now

TV exposure is better than nothing.

 

[barnyia]

The deal bein offered was for the catalans to pay bein to film and show the game. If somebody does it for free it's an improvement on the last bein offer! 

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

it was paltry last time.  

nobody wanted to pay more for it now

TV exposure is better than nothing.

 

If you keep giving it free though, nobody will ever pay. 

If we are paying for broadcasts, I'd want it to be on free to air or something rather than doing the job for Bein.

[aj1908]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If you keep giving it free though, nobody will ever pay. 

If we are paying for broadcasts, I'd want it to be on free to air or something rather than doing the job for Bein.

eventually of course.

but right now beggers cant be choosers either.  it looks like the market in france doesnt want to pay much for les catalans games.

maybe elstone needs to talk to broadcasters to see if there is actually apetite for toulose or if its not going to do anything for tv rights.

like the nrl has been told broadcasters want a brisbane team not so much perth so they seem to be prioritising brisbane

[Dave T]

Just now, aj1908 said:

eventually of course.

but right now beggers cant be choosers either.  it looks like the market in france doesnt want to pay much for les catalans games.

maybe elstone needs to talk to broadcasters to see if there is actually apetite for toulose or if its not going to do anything for tv rights.

like the nrl has been told broadcasters want a brisbane team not so much perth so they seem to be prioritising brisbane

But in reality, the Bein offer is a cost to the game. Are the benefits worth investing that quarter of a million quid? 

Or do we hold our nerve and do something different? 

As things stand, conversations are still ongoing anyway, so hopefully we will get some sort of deal. 

The problem with the saying 'beggars can't be choosers' is that we could still be saying it in another 5 years. 

[aj1908]

56 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But in reality, the Bein offer is a cost to the game. Are the benefits worth investing that quarter of a million quid? 

Or do we hold our nerve and do something different? 

As things stand, conversations are still ongoing anyway, so hopefully we will get some sort of deal. 

The problem with the saying 'beggars can't be choosers' is that we could still be saying it in another 5 years. 

i thought they pay 70k euro a year.  is 250k the production costs as covered by super league.

if so then thats a more difficult question isnt it.

the big question is toulouse - do they give critical mass for a decent TV deal (after a period of time) or is there no potential.

it is an issue les catalans have been around and succesful for so long and a decent deal isnt there.  perhaps the same will be true for toronto too.

which obiously limits expansion unless its self funded

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

i thought they pay 70k euro a year.  is 250k the production costs as covered by super league.

if so then thats a more difficult question isnt it.

the big question is toulouse - do they give critical mass for a decent TV deal (after a period of time) or is there no potential.

it is an issue les catalans have been around and succesful for so long and a decent deal isnt there.  perhaps the same will be true for toronto too.

which obiously limits expansion unless its self funded

The offer this time was that we pay for the costs and they will be good enough to show it. Like the TWP model basically. 

This is my biggest concern with the overseas markets.

[aj1908]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

The offer this time was that we pay for the costs and they will be good enough to show it. Like the TWP model basically. 

This is my biggest concern with the overseas markets.

you would hope that one day it would take off on TV overseas.  

even a small deal like 10 million pounds pa would more than cover say a toronto or les catalans and put money back in the game

i honestly believe if wolfpack dont fold they will help over the longer term with the commercial aspect of super league.

they are a potential game changer.  and if they fail they cost your game nothing.  its a good risk vs reward for the english game.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

you would hope that one day it would take off on TV overseas.  

even a small deal like 10 million pounds pa would more than cover say a toronto or les catalans and put money back in the game

i honestly believe if wolfpack dont fold they will help over the longer term with the commercial aspect of super league.

they are a potential game changer.  and if they fail they cost your game nothing.  its a good risk vs reward for the english game.

I think from where we are right now we should probably focus on three overseas territories that we could do something decent with.

France, Canada/N.A and Aus/NZ. 

In each of these territories there is all sorts we can do to make it more attractive to broadcasters - we can film every game to cater for international rights, we can adjust our scheduling to meet TV requirements, we can add more clubs from those areas, we can stage events there to build our brand (Magic etc) - there is a lot we can do, but what hasn't worked in France so far is sticking one team in and hoping a broadcaster pays us.

Now the answer from a North American broadcaster may be that they are never interested in a league made up of UK teams with 1 or 2 overseas teams in, and that they would only be truly interested with 6 teams - SL may decide that isn't something they can progress. 

But it just feels like there is no strategy at all, and we just do a couple of random things and hope somebody gets the cheque book out. They haven't so far, and are unlikely to do so based on the odd bit of random activity.

[Big Picture]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think from where we are right now we should probably focus on three overseas territories that we could do something decent with.

France, Canada/N.A and Aus/NZ. 

In each of these territories there is all sorts we can do to make it more attractive to broadcasters - we can film every game to cater for international rights, we can adjust our scheduling to meet TV requirements, we can add more clubs from those areas, we can stage events there to build our brand (Magic etc) - there is a lot we can do, but what hasn't worked in France so far is sticking one team in and hoping a broadcaster pays us.

Now the answer from a North American broadcaster may be that they are never interested in a league made up of UK teams with 1 or 2 overseas teams in, and that they would only be truly interested with 6 teams - SL may decide that isn't something they can progress. 

But it just feels like there is no strategy at all, and we just do a couple of random things and hope somebody gets the cheque book out. They haven't so far, and are unlikely to do so based on the odd bit of random activity.

More than likely there is no strategy at all and they've been trying to work out just how these expansion teams in other countries fit in and in Toronto's case they're probably having to learn as they go because it's such a different situation than they've ever had before.  We do know that last year they talked of a limit of three non-British clubs in SL which presumably means that if Toulouse makes it and Catalans and Toronto both stay up, New York and Ottawa have to wait for one of those three to be relegated.

How broadcasters in France and over here would assess that isn't known exactly, but chances are that will reduce the amount which any of them are willing to pay for rights.

 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

More than likely there is no strategy at all and they've been trying to work out just how these expansion teams in other countries fit in and in Toronto's case they're probably having to learn as they go because it's such a different situation than they've ever had before.  We do know that last year they talked of a limit of three non-British clubs in SL which presumably means that if Toulouse makes it and Catalans and Toronto both stay up, New York and Ottawa have to wait for one of those three to be relegated.

How broadcasters in France and over here would assess that isn't known exactly, but chances are that will reduce the amount which any of them are willing to pay for rights.

 

I know they were looking at the number of UK based teams, but hadn't seen the mention of three overseas clubs. 

 

[whatmichaelsays]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

In each of these territories there is all sorts we can do to make it more attractive to broadcasters - we can film every game to cater for international rights, we can adjust our scheduling to meet TV requirements, we can add more clubs from those areas, we can stage events there to build our brand (Magic etc) - there is a lot we can do, but what hasn't worked in France so far is sticking one team in and hoping a broadcaster pays us.

I think this is the key issue. We're going into new markets or markets where we have limited cut-through with the audience, asking broadcasters to take a bit of a punt and, unsuprisingly, they aren't enthusiastic. 

SLE has to make the product easy to buy. Not just for broadcasters, but for anyone. If it can create an international feed (in the same way that PRO14 Rugby does for example), prove the concept and appetite for the content amongst the types of audiences that broadcasters want and fit that to broadcast demands, then the product is easy to buy.

At the moment, we're offering broadcasters very little value - that is very much Elstone's remit. 

[barnyia]

Bein want to be in a win win situation now, as they where à few years ago and how orange TV was in the beginning, fans subscribing for 15 euros a month and the club paying a fortune per  game for production costs. 

[whatmichaelsays]

5 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

And you need to be looking to build value around that. Not just extract that which exists today. 

 

Rugby League thinking in a nutshell. 

The justification for loop fixtures is that the clubs need to get more value out of (already under-paid) players and an existing fan base. There's no discussion about how we add value to the product to grow the fan base. 

The whole justification for a bigger TV deal seems to be "because we want it", with little discussion (publicly at least) about what we can offer a broadcaster. 

Everything seems to be about extracting as much value as we can until the teet runs dry. Where is the talk about how we actually create something above and beyond what we already offer?

[The Daddy]

Alot of righteous and delusional posts on this thread. The bottom line is that Rugby league has very little profile in France, that means that the SL rights have no or a small amount of value. 

French tv stations are not bothered if you stop them from broadcasting SL, they lose nothing. It's the sport of RL in Europe that stands to lose much more when SL isn't screened in France. These are just realities that people in the RL community struggle to digest, the world doesn't owe rl anything.

A product is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

More importantly if the SL comp wants money for SL to be screened in France then it must do more to make the product more appealing to those broadcasters. It's completely naive and ignorant to just expect people to give you money coz you feel like they should, the world doesn't work like that. 

How about the SL clubs or executives just say we'll have the comp screened free of charge for x amount of years but we'll use that time to raise the profile of the sport and increase the market value of the competition. 

This whole episode has been handled disastrously by Elstone and the SL clubs and it's backfired, now there is no coverage in France at all which is terrible for the sport locally because it was starting to make a bit of headway. That's a massive L in my book. 

[aj1908]

1 hour ago, The Daddy said:

Alot of righteous and delusional posts on this thread. The bottom line is that Rugby league has very little profile in France, that means that the SL rights have no or a small amount of value. 

French tv stations are not bothered if you stop them from broadcasting SL, they lose nothing. It's the sport of RL in Europe that stands to lose much more when SL isn't screened in France. These are just realities that people in the RL community struggle to digest, the world doesn't owe rl anything.

A product is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

More importantly if the SL comp wants money for SL to be screened in France then it must do more to make the product more appealing to those broadcasters. It's completely naive and ignorant to just expect people to give you money coz you feel like they should, the world doesn't work like that. 

How about the SL clubs or executives just say we'll have the comp screened free of charge for x amount of years but we'll use that time to raise the profile of the sport and increase the market value of the competition. 

This whole episode has been handled disastrously by Elstone and the SL clubs and it's backfired, now there is no coverage in France at all which is terrible for the sport locally because it was starting to make a bit of headway. That's a massive L in my book. 

i agree

but to be fair les catalans have been screened for a while now and it hasnt caught on?

super league needs someone with connections in french tv to see what they would be prepared to pay for.

maybe even toulose in super league wouldnt add much ?

[Yakstorm]

We really have shot ourselves in the foot here... considering what we are offering a French broadcaster, the fact we actually got 70K from BeIN is amazing...

For a sport which doesn't have a large profile or cut through in France, as many other posters have rightfully pointed out, we are offering a terrible package.

What does a BeIN or any other French or Catalonian broadcaster get if they agree to what is being offered? Sure they get all the Catalan home games... but they only play at home half the year and then there are breaks in the season for things like Challenge Cup, where the Catalan's may or may not be playing...

How does a broadcaster try and build up a market, sell a product to advertisers, or even justifying their own costs for 'talent' if over the 34 weeks from season kick off to end of the regular season, they are only guaranteed to broadcast Catalans 16 times (14 Home Games + Magic + Minimum 1 Challenge Cup).

Now naturally Sky is bound to show at least a couple of Catalan away games, but that is minimal and the timeslots aren't regular or correspond with the same time slot the Catalan's home games are.

That is a terrible deal for a broadcaster, especially in such a fragmented market with so many OTT, VOD, streaming and other competing services.  For a 'traditional' broadcaster, you want to be able to put the same content on, at the same time, each and every week, with maybe only a one or two week break... not up to 4 weeks. 

It's how you build an audience and create value for a broadcaster, but it's not what we are offering them...

If we want French broadcasters to pay a decent fee, we need to ensure they get every Catalan's match, arguably home and away, otherwise we should be happy with what we get.