Toronto Academy/Reserves

[Davo5]

2 hours ago, SL17 said:

They support the so called academies via the community game. It’s 100 years of development.

They got rid of their academy& their reserves after they bottled their first attempt at promotion and used the money to sign a load of journeymen,maybe that’s why there is so much anti Toronto rubbish spewed out by you all on here,the Canadians are using your model and doing it better.

[Davo5]

17 minutes ago, SL17 said:

 Crikey an anti leyther. 
Breath son keep breathing..

You follow me round this site like a magnet. 
 

If you want my autograph just pm me padawan.

 

Nah you just haunt every TWP thread I happen to read and it is entertaining to read your bitter diatrades.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

20 minutes ago, NOS4A2 said:

Location is no barrier to education.

Not been to Hull then?? 

[Adelaide Tiger]

6 hours ago, aj1908 said:

theres a thread on league unlimited asking when melbourne will produce their first nrl player.

and theyve had over 500 million into them.

anybody with half a brain would realize it way to early to be asking these questions of toronto.

The problem is that you are assuming that everyone on here has at least half a brain...

[The Hallucinating Goose]

34 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

The problem is that you are assuming that everyone on here has at least half a brain...

They do, they just have to leave something as collateral when they have a loan of it.

[Bob8]

9 hours ago, NOS4A2 said:

Indeed you are K-man.

Other expansion sides have been cut slack in the past. Catalans were safe from the drop for all but one year between 2005 and 2014, London Broncos fielded extra foreign trained players up to 2006 (IIRC) and then had the RFL pay their new Landlord £100,000 in 2014 to spend on marketing (and to ensure the fixtures were met). Celtic Crusaders were also cut slack in various departments, so it is only right that the RFL should give you the same help......except that is that they can't. 

After 20 years of RFL management and mis-managent of SL, the chairmen/owners of the club decided to wrest control to themselves and it would appear that this lot "don't do noting for nobody for nothing", so you might have to cough up some more of Argyles readies if you want any favours doing.

Of course it is ridiculous to expect an infant club such as yours to run juniors, academies and reserves, in the same way it is insane to expect North American players...except that was what was promised by Perez and as my namesake was famed for once saying

“Remember my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker”

 but alas, this is Rugby League and the memories are strong here, no matter how logical and knowledgeable the other side of the debate.

I will say that with a little bit of forward thinking, a Reserve grade side could have been assembled quite cheaply and based full time in England, but I can see that Argyle feels that if he has to have a reserve grade then he should also get the SKY cash, even though he'd only be able to spend it on other things, as he's already at the cap.

Many on here certainly did not cut Catalans slack. Until a few years later then claimed that they had always said they would be a success, as they are from a rugby league area. I quoted their own quotes back at them, but they they insisted reality was wrong.

[aj1908]

8 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Many on here certainly did not cut Catalans slack. Until a few years later then claimed that they had always said they would be a success, as they are from a rugby league area. I quoted their own quotes back at them, but they they insisted reality was wrong.

Yes I remember that 

They hated the idea of les Catalans and said it would fail 

Five years later when it didn't they said oh it's a rugby league heartland of course it would work 

Catalans have been one of the few success super league has had.  One would say stunning even 

I'm hoping the wolfpack will be the next one 

And then Toulose 

That would set up super league very very.nicely going forward 

[Bob8]

4 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Yes I remember that 

They hated the idea of les Catalans and said it would fail 

Five years later when it didn't they said oh it's a rugby league heartland of course it would work 

Catalans have been one of the few success super league has had.  One would say stunning even 

I'm hoping the wolfpack will be the next one 

And then Toulose 

That would set up super league very very.nicely going forward 

Indeed. TWP would be a more improbable success, but it would be great for the sport.

[aj1908]

3 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Indeed. TWP would be a more improbable success, but it would be great for the sport.

It's weird how argyle.has made a success of.toronto and branson couldn't with London 

If toronto fail.it won't be for lack of money that's for sure.

[Themusician_2]

6 hours ago, NOS4A2 said:

I don't for one second think that Mr Argyle gives a toss about the concerns I raised, being that they won't raise the participation numbers in North America, nor that they will solve the problems faced by the game in the Northern Hemisphere, which include stopping the slide in participation, ensuring that we become less reliant on TV money, the need to assist French RL before if slips into obscure disarray AGAIN.

He only cares for his own team, playing in his colours out of the city he calls home. If a few folk pay to get in fine, but if not, he's not bothered. He's paying SBW £72K per game out of his own pocket and will probably spend twice that again to win a trophy.

Their Crowds, no matter how they are attained, freebies, freebies or even more freebies tagged to a beer festival, are to be applauded and they will certainly make SL watchers feel all warm and fuzzy when their 9k average replaces London's 2k, inflating the overall attendance number by as much as 5%., but in terms of income for SL they will deliver little.

They asked to come in and we let them, but now they remind me of an unknown guest ( a friend of a friend) who attends a group dinner party. Once in, they ctiticise the decor, adjust the seating arrangements, bemoan the standard of the wine on offer, ask for something  to eat other than that which your host has prepared and which the other guest are happy to enjoy and the starts to loudly blow ones own trumpet drowning out the other guests conversation.

That’s another thing I don’t understand They spent so much on SBW imagine if they spent that on junior development and growing the game.

[Bob8]

3 hours ago, aj1908 said:

It's weird how argyle.has made a success of.toronto and branson couldn't with London 

If toronto fail.it won't be for lack of money that's for sure.

I think there are a few key differences.

THe Broncos approach was built it and they will come, which was rather different. The Broncos also did have a few years of decent crowds.

But, the Broncos were always a sideline there was not the same personal involvement to make it work. Also, rugby league was not a fresh new sport to the already crowded London sports market. It Toronto have to move around Ontario is search of a ground, I suspect they would also find it much harder.

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, Themusician_2 said:

That’s another thing I don’t understand They spent so much on SBW imagine if they spent that on junior development and growing the game.

Why just Toronto,why not several other clubs who have only made a token effort of youth development over the years or in some cases haven't even bothered.

[Davo5]

12 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

And there we have it , as I said , you ignore the point being made , the school and community clubs in Leigh have produced and continue to produce professional and indeed international players , how many Canadian professional RL players are there ? 

You have a choice , if you don't understand the point I made , say so , and I will explain again , if you don't want to understand it , then fine just say so and we can ignore you 

So the hard work of clubs like Leigh Miners/Easts gives your club an excuse not to bother,very good.

[aj1908]

1 hour ago, Themusician_2 said:

That’s another thing I don’t understand They spent so much on SBW imagine if they spent that on junior development and growing the game.

Because there's a marquee player allowance and they can?

And Developing juniors doesn't help them.not getting relegated ?

[To Be Confirmed]

14 hours ago, Kayakman said:

He has no answers to the hard questions.

Could they not train at Lamport stadium, considering it is covered with a large dome during the winter months?

[TIWIT]

3 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Why just Toronto,why not several other clubs who have only made a token effort of youth development over the years or in some cases haven't even bothered.

Do as I say, not as I do.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

Several people missing the point. This isn't about what Toronto should contribute vs what traditional clubs contribute, it's about how they can enhance their own operation through youth development.

I assume every sane person believes bringing through players is a good thing and I think Toronto are in a unique position to develop very good youth set-up on both sides of the Atlantic. It would be interesting to hear if they have any plans in this regard.

They could certainly have a short term aim of teams in the UK system bringing through UK based players and a longer term Canadian/North American plan running concurrently. 

[aj1908]

2 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Several people missing the point. This isn't about what Toronto should contribute vs what traditional clubs contribute, it's about how they can enhance their own operation through youth development.

I assume every sane person believes bringing through players is a good thing and I think Toronto are in a unique position to develop very good youth set-up on both sides of the Atlantic. It would be interesting to hear if they have any plans in this regard.

They could certainly have a short term aim of teams in the UK system bringing through UK based players and a longer term Canadian/North American plan running concurrently. 

Any sane person wouldn't think it's an issue at this stage of their development 

Maybe not getting relegated is a wee bit more important 

[Kayakman]

1 minute ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Several people missing the point. This isn't about what Toronto should contribute vs what traditional clubs contribute, it's about how they can enhance their own operation through youth development.

I assume every sane person believes bringing through players is a good thing and I think Toronto are in a unique position to develop very good youth set-up on both sides of the Atlantic. It would be interesting to hear if they have any plans in this regard.

They could certainly have a short term aim of teams in the UK system bringing through UK based players and a longer term Canadian/North American plan running concurrently. 

There was a plan...there is a good plan...but then SL stole our share of the central funding...that is where we are at.

[aj1908]

Out of interest how many of Catalans team.are French?

Edit 12 out of 30 ?

Lol 

And league has been played there for almost 100 years and they've been in super league for ages 

[Tex Evans Thigh]

14 hours ago, Moove said:

Re an academy, I don't see that being particularly viable or worthwhile for them without a community or college structure to support it. Neither of those are going to get to a useful level any time soon though regardless of immediate funding. However I do think it's important to invest in that community or college structure now if there is any intention to grow the sport in Canada longer term. Even if the quality is low and none make SL level for 20+ years, it's still engagement with the next generation of TWP fans and more exposure for the sport.

The other thing they could maybe look at in the medium term is something like a scholarship set up. They have a top quality university which might be particularly attractive to prospective players both here and in Aus. There's a wider sport benefit there as it gives us an opportunity to retain players who might otherwise give the sport up when they reach that age. There'd be the coaching network etc to sort out but it's certainly something I'd be looking at.

Re reserves, recruiting a team would be easy enough but given the travel involved during the bulk of the season they'd either have to take the hit on costs or base them permanently in the UK. I don't really see much point in either. They'd probably be better making use of the loan system where required in the short term at least. Or potentially use the link-up with London Skolars as a dual-reg/reserves sort of thing.

FWIW I'd make a significant chunk of collective funding (from TV/commercial deals) reserved for community/academy investment for all clubs. The idea that TWP should have structures anything like 100+ year old clubs is daft, but I'd like to see similar levels of investment in this stuff across all clubs, TWP included. I don't have a problem with TWP having leeway with this though for as long as SL prevent them from an equal share of collective commercial income (I wonder how the spending of that is going...)

I appreciate what you are saying but disagree with most of it. 

The first part is not what I was suggesting. It would obviously take a long time for Canadian players to come through, if any did at all, but they should probably look to do what you are suggesting and try and increase engagement. No reason they can't be doing that now (if they aren't already).

There is also no reason they couldn't set up a fully UK based academy. Almost all their players are English, so why not pitch up somewhere and start bringing players through. They would almost certainly have SL quality players coming through within a couple of years with the right recruitment. This would help massively with the squad/cap/optics.

I kind of agree on the reserves and Skolars could be the way around this but they would only really get the full benefits if they had the academy to supply players. It doesn't really have too many benefits if they are just sending first team squad players on loan.

With this structure it would allow them to slowly develop NA players with less pressure and those that are good enough move over to the UK to continue their development.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

5 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Any sane person wouldn't think it's an issue at this stage of their development 

Maybe not getting relegated is a wee bit more important 

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

6 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

There was a plan...there is a good plan...but then SL stole our share of the central funding...that is where we are at.

So Toronto can't afford it?

[Tex Evans Thigh]

6 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Out of interest how many of Catalans team.are French?

Edit 12 out of 30 ?

Lol 

And league has been played there for almost 100 years and they've been in super league for ages 

What's your point? 

[aj1908]

2 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

What's your point? 

Well if after 90.years France can't produce that many local players what do we.expect Toronto to produce?

Let's be realistic 

Training a fully pro league player isn't easy 

Toronto probably won't produce any decent players for ten years 

Sure they can get some local.union players But then they wouldn't win any games