Dave T Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 14 hours ago, Big Picture said: They also wouldn't be allowed 13 Canadians under the quota rules now. Is that a fact? https://www.rugby-league.com/flipbooks/2019-operational-rules-tiers-1-3/mobile/index.html#p=107 Section C1:4:2 In the case of Toronto Wolfpack, the Board has deemed that Players with Canadian, American or Jamaican passports shall not count towards the number of overseas players which can be signed by the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 27 minutes ago, Dave T said: Is that a fact? https://www.rugby-league.com/flipbooks/2019-operational-rules-tiers-1-3/mobile/index.html#p=107 Section C1:4:2 In the case of Toronto Wolfpack, the Board has deemed that Players with Canadian, American or Jamaican passports shall not count towards the number of overseas players which can be signed by the club. Very interesting that, has that changed from when they started? I seem to remember the quota limits being mentioned as a deterrent to signing North Americans and part of the reason for the eventual release of the few whom they had on the roster. The ruling you quoted there does give them the opportunity of signing some Canadian RU players to increase their roster as under the New Talent Pool Dispensation they'd be outside the salary cap for the first year and only count at 50% of their salary for the second year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, aj1908 said: Because there's a marquee player allowance and they can? And Developing juniors doesn't help them.not getting relegated ? Comes down to traditional growth from the bottom UK model vs top-down NAM growth model. The Negs here have seen such a thing work so are convinced it won't/can't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 22 minutes ago, Big Picture said: Very interesting that, has that changed from when they started? I seem to remember the quota limits being mentioned as a deterrent to signing North Americans and part of the reason for the eventual release of the few whom they had on the roster. The ruling you quoted there does give them the opportunity of signing some Canadian RU players to increase their roster as under the New Talent Pool Dispensation they'd be outside the salary cap for the first year and only count at 50% of their salary for the second year. I'm not sure when that change was made, that is the 2019 regulation, I don't have access to the 2018 one to see if it was in then. It should be noted that clubs are limited to 2 New Talent/Returning players each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dave T said: I'm not sure when that change was made, that is the 2019 regulation, I don't have access to the 2018 one to see if it was in then. It should be noted that clubs are limited to 2 New Talent/Returning players each. So much for Toronto turning to converts from RU or gridiron to boost their roster then. They're forced to rely mostly on established RL players by the roster rules, and like London they have to pay more to get them to sign which means that they can't fit 25 players under the salary cap as the traditional clubs can, thus they only have 23 players on their books now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Big Picture said: So much for Toronto turning to converts from RU or gridiron to boost their roster then. They're forced to rely mostly on established RL players by the roster rules, and like London they have to pay more to get them to sign which means that they can't fit 25 players under the salary cap as the traditional clubs can, thus they only have 23 players on their books now. Exactly. Dispensation NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Big Picture said: So much for Toronto turning to converts from RU or gridiron to boost their roster then. They're forced to rely mostly on established RL players by the roster rules, and like London they have to pay more to get them to sign which means that they can't fit 25 players under the salary cap as the traditional clubs can, thus they only have 23 players on their books now. I don't think they are using the 2 exemptions though are they, so they aren't being forced? I really do think the Skolars partnership was the most sensible way of dealing with needing 5-8 young players throughout the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, aj1908 said: Well if after 90.years France can't produce that many local players what do we.expect Toronto to produce? Let's be realistic Training a fully pro league player isn't easy Toronto probably won't produce any decent players for ten years Sure they can get some local.union players But then they wouldn't win any games Given most of their squad is English and will be for the foreseeable future, why not attempt to bring English players through an academy? That is the question. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To Be Confirmed Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 They have IMO overspent massively on some players! they were offering silly money out for players just to have the best squad in the championship and now it has come back to bite them on the back side. Example of this would be Gaz O Brien who had his salary doubled when he left salford to join them! only needs a couple more of them and its not hard to see why they are now struggling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dave T said: I don't think they are using the 2 exemptions though are they, so they aren't being forced? I really do think the Skolars partnership was the most sensible way of dealing with needing 5-8 young players throughout the season. This seems like the most sensible first step as it's already there but they also need an avenue to bring players through rather than just plucking some 25 year old from USARL and hoping for the best. A UK academy would help this, especially if based in North London and they put some money into development. The London production line was starting to look good until the UK sport funding was pulled. Skolars would obviously benefit as well. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, To Be Confirmed said: They have IMO overspent massively on some players! they were offering silly money out for players just to have the best squad in the championship and now it has come back to bite them on the back side. Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 7 hours ago, Themusician_2 said: That’s another thing I don’t understand They spent so much on SBW imagine if they spent that on junior development and growing the game. SBW signing has probably got more youth attention and column inches than any signing by any super league club in the past 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatmichaelsays Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: SBW signing has probably got more youth attention and column inches than any signing by any super league club in the past 15 years. Completely this. Has any other club generated this much attention on their media day since the start of SL? I certainly can't think of any. There are lots of accusations that you can throw at Toronto Wolfpack but the one thing that is undeniable is that they get people talking - and not just RL people. All 12 clubs have had or are about to have their pre-season media day - 11 of them have passed or will pass with barely a murmer - maybe a cliche-riddled interview in a local rag with a dwindling circulation, but that's about it. Don't be fooled into thinking that the comments we've been seeing from McDermott and Noble recently aren't part of a deliberate strategy. This is the setting of a carefully-crafted narrative. TW have set out to create this image of a 'disruptor' in RL. They're deliberately trying to create a 'seige mentality' narrative. They're deliberately trying to pitch themselves as ambitious trailblazors and innovators, going up against a tired, dated, and unaspirational band of clubs who are fearful of them and don't want them to succeed. When people bang on about how this sport needs better marketing, this is better marketing in the sport - a club deliberately creating a story that they know will get people talking. It's something that every club should be doing, but very few are. SBW is box office. He'll put bums on seats in Canada, in France and in the UK. As an investment, he's a safe bet and he'll do more for the Super League and the club than any investment in youth development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 36 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: SBW signing has probably got more youth attention and column inches than any signing by any super league club in the past 15 years. I work for an international media organisation whose sports coverage is run by a bunch of union fanatics. Today, for the first time in at least the 14 years that I've been there, we published domestic UK rugby league story that wasn't about drugs or a cross code issue. All about SBW and Toronto in SL. I never thought I'd see the day. (Oh and by the way the interview was done at the Manchester City media facility. So many resources in the northwest just crying out to be linked up with) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 21 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said: Completely this. Has any other club generated this much attention on their media day since the start of SL? I certainly can't think of any. There are lots of accusations that you can throw at Toronto Wolfpack but the one thing that is undeniable is that they get people talking - and not just RL people. All 12 clubs have had or are about to have their pre-season media day - 11 of them have passed or will pass with barely a murmer - maybe a cliche-riddled interview in a local rag with a dwindling circulation, but that's about it. Don't be fooled into thinking that the comments we've been seeing from McDermott and Noble recently aren't part of a deliberate strategy. This is the setting of a carefully-crafted narrative. TW have set out to create this image of a 'disruptor' in RL. They're deliberately trying to create a 'seige mentality' narrative. They're deliberately trying to pitch themselves as ambitious trailblazors and innovators, going up against a tired, dated, and unaspirational band of clubs who are fearful of them and don't want them to succeed. When people bang on about how this sport needs better marketing, this is better marketing in the sport - a club deliberately creating a story that they know will get people talking. It's something that every club should be doing, but very few are. SBW is box office. He'll put bums on seats in Canada, in France and in the UK. As an investment, he's a safe bet and he'll do more for the Super League and the club than any investment in youth development. Why is everybody against us? Why are we always the underwolf? When are we going to start to be treated fairly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 24 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said: Completely this. Has any other club generated this much attention on their media day since the start of SL? I certainly can't think of any. There are lots of accusations that you can throw at Toronto Wolfpack but the one thing that is undeniable is that they get people talking - and not just RL people. All 12 clubs have had or are about to have their pre-season media day - 11 of them have passed or will pass with barely a murmer - maybe a cliche-riddled interview in a local rag with a dwindling circulation, but that's about it. Don't be fooled into thinking that the comments we've been seeing from McDermott and Noble recently aren't part of a deliberate strategy. This is the setting of a carefully-crafted narrative. TW have set out to create this image of a 'disruptor' in RL. They're deliberately trying to create a 'seige mentality' narrative. They're deliberately trying to pitch themselves as ambitious trailblazors and innovators, going up against a tired, dated, and unaspirational band of clubs who are fearful of them and don't want them to succeed. When people bang on about how this sport needs better marketing, this is better marketing in the sport - a club deliberately creating a story that they know will get people talking. It's something that every club should be doing, but very few are. SBW is box office. He'll put bums on seats in Canada, in France and in the UK. As an investment, he's a safe bet and he'll do more for the Super League and the club than any investment in youth development. Exactly, I should have really said he's got more youth attention and column inches than anything full stop that a SL club has actively done in recent times. On the narrative/ mentality, I totally agree with you. Its a bit like Mourinho's media style which of course isn't to everyone's taste but has a track record of effectiveness. This is better marketing, its creating a narrative, driving that narrative in every aspect and building off of that to gain media coverage - and its working! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said: I work for an international media organisation whose sports coverage is run by a bunch of union fanatics. Today, for the first time in at least the 14 years that I've been there, we published domestic UK rugby league story that wasn't about drugs or a cross code issue. All about SBW and Toronto in SL. I never thought I'd see the day. (Oh and by the way the interview was done at the Manchester City media facility. So many resources in the northwest just crying out to be linked up with) Says it all. I'm not surprised in the slightest as that has been my experience too. Mates who are private school union through and through have asked me about whether I'm coming to Headingley for the season opener double header. I'm not saying our current athletes aren't worth box office, but to attract box office attention we need to be doing this across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 6 hours ago, Davo5 said: Why just Toronto,why not several other clubs who have only made a token effort of youth development over the years or in some cases haven't even bothered. Like who ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyjamarama Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 23 minutes ago, Kayakman said: Why is everybody against us? Why are we always the underwolf? When are we going to start to be treated fairly? Not everyone is against you. There's a bloke in Eastbourne who likes you. (Only joking - apologies but I couldn't resist copying a line by the Major in Fawlty Towers). It's true that there's an element of RL fans that seem to dislike everything that TW do no matter what. But there are also a huge number of RL fans wholeheartedly willing you on & wishing you success. I've been following RL since I was 7 years old & I'm now in my 50s. For me the expansion of the game internationally at both club & country level is the most exiting thing to happen to the sport that I've seen. We cannot keep plodding on dying a slow death & becoming less & less relevant by just keeping to a handful of ex mining & cotton towns along the M62. Keep up the great work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, Pyjamarama said: Not everyone is against you. There's a bloke in Eastbourne who likes you. (Only joking - apologies but I couldn't resist copying a line by the Major in Fawlty Towers). "How very different the liberal and public spirit of this Toronto Wolfpack team; from the mean selfish policy of the RL Chairmen styled honorable; and whom at little expense, might have had the northern part of this continent in the grasp of League." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 10 hours ago, scotchy1 said: Its seems a little backward that Toronto, who dont have any amateur game to work with are criticised for not contributing to youth development but the existence if an amateur game is the reason Leigh centurions dont have to bother contributing to youth development. Like the existence of amateur clubs in an area and the efforts of those who keep them running somehow protects lazy professional clubs near by, yet expansion clubs should be expected to create an entire amateur game, and a youth development system to sit on top of that with 3 years is such an incredibly ridiculous standpoint that I cant believe anyone could make it in good faith. Give it a rest , it's been done to death , the last time Leigh tried to run an academy they played about ,6/7 games , 3 of those against the same opposition , explain just how you can run one if there is essentially nobody to play ? , Just how do you keep young players interested when they've been playing 25/30 games for their community club , then play half a dozen You know why it isn't doable unlike some of the other idiots , so stop trying to curry favour with them by posting bull So what part do you find so funny Davo ? , Please give us the benifit of your expertise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 6 hours ago, TIWIT said: Do as I say, not as I do. Clueless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 hours ago, TIWIT said: Comes down to traditional growth from the bottom UK model vs top-down NAM growth model. The Negs here have seen such a thing work so are convinced it won't/can't work Clueless again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Tommygilf said: Says it all. I'm not surprised in the slightest as that has been my experience too. Mates who are private school union through and through have asked me about whether I'm coming to Headingley for the season opener double header. I'm not saying our current athletes aren't worth box office, but to attract box office attention we need to be doing this across the board. For that the sport would need a whole league of Torontos and it will never have that within the current English structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moove Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: Give it a rest , it's been done to death , the last time Leigh tried to run an academy they played about ,6/7 games , 3 of those against the same opposition , explain just how you can run one if there is essentially nobody to play ? , Just how do you keep young players interested when they've been playing 25/30 games for their community club , then play half a dozen You know why it isn't doable unlike some of the other idiots , so stop trying to curry favour with them by posting bull Possibly a question for a separate thread but how come you didn't play in the academy league with the rest? There are 13 others to play in the U18s atm. There has been a proper league for quite a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.