graveyard johnny Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, Davo5 said: Greg Eden would look a world beater if he put together a highlight reel, Apart from Souths who got him on the cheap,only Wests showed a serious interest and even they pulled the offer. Mitchell can be brilliant when motivated but his performances last year at both club and rep level were a mixed bag,with the likes of Tedesco,Manu,Radley proving more influential in the Roosters run to another premiership. comparing greg eden to Latrell Mitchell is like comparing bells whisky to jura see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Mitchell is a rare talent with great physical attributes to be sure , but ultimately the Roosters were willing to cut him loose . I honestly think there are other players there they would have fought harder to keep . Thing was Latrell at this stage can be brilliant , whereas other key players perform at high levels week in week out . Roosters are content id say , and so are Souths . Is Latrell , or has he regrets on leaving Bondi ? I’ll be interested how he goes , he’s at a bit of a crossroads . Certainly in terms of moving to the next level . He was cut up about origin , but playing fullback it’s even tougher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, DavidM said: Mitchell is a rare talent with great physical attributes to be sure , but ultimately the Roosters were willing to cut him loose . I honestly think there are other players there they would have fought harder to keep . Thing was Latrell at this stage can be brilliant , whereas other key players perform at high levels week in week out . Roosters are content id say , and so are Souths . Is Latrell , or has he regrets on leaving Bondi ? I’ll be interested how he goes , he’s at a bit of a crossroads . Certainly in terms of moving to the next level The one thing the Roosters have and Robinson clearly instills in his team is a tremendous work ethic and ultimately Mitchell didn't fit this culture as he simply didn't put his hand up for the hard work like the rest of the outside backs at the Roosters do. Some would argue that with a player like Lattrell you don't make them do the tough stuff as they are match winners but you can see at the Roosters that the workload is shared no matter how much of a superstar the player is. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 43 minutes ago, NOS4A2 said: Agree with you here. The last couple of years the chooks have looked the best "drilled" side in the competition. This presented Latrell with a platform from which to do the damage and he did that, very well. I still have them as making the Grand Final this year and going for a "threepeat". The division of workload in the Roosters team is one of their most impressive attributes. All teams want their back three to make carries and do some hard yards out of their own half but the Roosters do it better than any of the other teams. If you look at the top 10 backs in the NRL last year on average ball carrying metres per game (there are 5 full backs and 5 wingers) the Roosters have three players in this list. Tedesco (187) tops the list as a full back and Ryan Hall (164) and Daniel Tupou (159) are in there as wingers. Between the three of them they carry the ball for over 500 metres per game. This workload is massively helpful for the pack and this is rewarded by the aggressive and oppressive defence the Roosters have in the middle of the park. It is a simple formulae in theory but it takes discipline and attitude to make it work and this is what Robinson instils in his teams. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj1908 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 james tedesco mayve torn his pec. thats the roosters season up in flames right there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Toppy Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 11 hours ago, Dunbar said: The division of workload in the Roosters team is one of their most impressive attributes. All teams want their back three to make carries and do some hard yards out of their own half but the Roosters do it better than any of the other teams. If you look at the top 10 backs in the NRL last year on average ball carrying metres per game (there are 5 full backs and 5 wingers) the Roosters have three players in this list. Tedesco (187) tops the list as a full back and Ryan Hall (164) and Daniel Tupou (159) are in there as wingers. Between the three of them they carry the ball for over 500 metres per game. This workload is massively helpful for the pack and this is rewarded by the aggressive and oppressive defence the Roosters have in the middle of the park. It is a simple formulae in theory but it takes discipline and attitude to make it work and this is what Robinson instils in his teams. Its been noticeable that under Holbrook Saints adopted a similar approach to sharing the workload. Invariably tackles 1 & 2 (and often tackle 3 later in games) were taken by Makinson, Percival or Naiqama in every set. This led to people like Walmsley being able to do much longer minutes than they had previously St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Click Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 35 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said: Its been noticeable that under Holbrook Saints adopted a similar approach to sharing the workload. Invariably tackles 1 & 2 (and often tackle 3 later in games) were taken by Makinson, Percival or Naiqama in every set. This led to people like Walmsley being able to do much longer minutes than they had previously You mean like every RL team has done for the last 5 years + now? The wingers/Fall back take the first 2/3 tackles, finally followed up by the forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Click said: You mean like every RL team has done for the last 5 years + now? The wingers/Fall back take the first 2/3 tackles, finally followed up by the forwards. Indeed, every team wants to play this way but there is a difference between having a game plan and execution. As I said above, the Roosters had 3 of the top 10 backs in average metres carried in the NRL last year and I would would hazard a guess that Saints would have the same type of stats in Super League. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSN Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Roosters will be weaker than last year, but on paper for the last 2 seasons I think they had the best club team in the 21st century apart from maybe the salary cap breaking Melbourne side. Cronk massive miss it will be interesting how they operate without him.1st game without him calling the shots may result in the Roosters taking time to find their feet. Mitchell is a big loss, he was one of their strike players who could produce something out of nothing but was quite inconsistent. He could score a hatrick making 15 tackle busts one game to then doing nothing the next. For me if Saints want to have any chance they need to get on top in the forwards. If Tedesco and Keary are playing on the front foot all game it'll be a cricket score. If I was bookies I'd give Saints 18 start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 18 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Indeed, every team wants to play this way but there is a difference between having a game plan and execution. As I said above, the Roosters had 3 of the top 10 backs in average metres carried in the NRL last year and I would would hazard a guess that Saints would have the same type of stats in Super League. Not sure if I've mentioned, but the SL stats site is so poor we can't even filter by club and see this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allora Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 14 hours ago, Dunbar said: The division of workload in the Roosters team is one of their most impressive attributes. All teams want their back three to make carries and do some hard yards out of their own half but the Roosters do it better than any of the other teams. If you look at the top 10 backs in the NRL last year on average ball carrying metres per game (there are 5 full backs and 5 wingers) the Roosters have three players in this list. Tedesco (187) tops the list as a full back and Ryan Hall (164) and Daniel Tupou (159) are in there as wingers. Between the three of them they carry the ball for over 500 metres per game. This workload is massively helpful for the pack and this is rewarded by the aggressive and oppressive defence the Roosters have in the middle of the park. It is a simple formulae in theory but it takes discipline and attitude to make it work and this is what Robinson instils in his teams. Stats..... Ryan Hall only played in 6 games and scored 0 tries. His stats look good if you take them from a distance in reality he had a very ordinary season either through "injury" or non selection. Talent is secondary to whether players are confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 4 hours ago, Allora said: Stats..... Ryan Hall only played in 6 games and scored 0 tries. His stats look good if you take them from a distance in reality he had a very ordinary season either through "injury" or non selection. I struggle to see how being injured can be described as 'ordinary'. I saw all his games and he was not presented with a single try scoring opportunity which he failed to convert. When Hall was selected he did exactly the job Robinson needed him to do (the same job Tupou does on the other wing) and helped the Roosters lay the platform for victory. Stats matter when they show perfectly one of the reasons why the Roosters are the champion team in the comp. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred Mann Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 3 hours ago, aj1908 said: james tedesco mayve torn his pec. thats the roosters season up in flames right there No truth to the rumours about James Tedesco having injured his pec: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrumonside ref Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 18 hours ago, John WP Fan said: Is this game being broadcast somewhere? I had hoped it would be included with watchnrl but I don't see it listed there. The usually reliable Rugby League on TV website is saying Sky Sports, but I don’t see it in Sky’s tv fixture list as yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Dunbar said: I struggle to see how being injured can be described as 'ordinary'. I saw all his games and he was not presented with a single try scoring opportunity which he failed to convert. When Hall was selected he did exactly the job Robinson needed him to do (the same job Tupou does on the other wing) and helped the Roosters lay the platform for victory. Stats matter when show perfectly one of the reasons why the Roosters are the champion team in the comp. Yeah but he's English and playing in the NRLso won't get a fair crack off Aussie Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred Mann Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Possible Sydney Roosters team: James Tedesco Daniel Tupou, Brett Morris, Joseph Manu, Ryan Hall Luke Keary, Kyle Flanagan Victor Radley Boyd Cordner, Angus Crichton Jared Waerea-Hargreaves, Jake Friend, Siosiua Taukeiaho Interchange: Joseph Liu, Mitch Aubusson, Lindsay Collins, Nat Butcher This is a formidable team, even without Latrell Mitchell. It will be very difficult for St. Helens to defeat the Sydney Roosters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 30 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said: Possible Sydney Roosters team: James Tedesco Daniel Tupou, Brett Morris, Joseph Manu, Ryan Hall Luke Keary, Kyle Flanagan Victor Radley Boyd Cordner, Angus Crichton Jared Waerea-Hargreaves, Jake Friend, Siosiua Taukeiaho Interchange: Joseph Liu, Mitch Aubusson, Lindsay Collins, Nat Butcher This is a formidable team, even without Latrell Mitchell. It will be very difficult for St. Helens to defeat the Sydney Roosters. Latest injury list update on NRL website has Hall to be ready for Round 1 and it's usually pretty accurate - so I doubt they'll risk him for WCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearTheVee Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 22 hours ago, Moove said: Hoping we put up a better showing than last time out against Souths, but frankly when the likes of that Souths team and this Roosters one really turn up you've got to be at the top of your game for 80 mins to get close, never mind win it. On paper our team is considerably better than it was back then though (Burns and Wilkin half backs) and I don't need to see us play to know that Woolf will be a step up from Cunningham as coach! Should be a great occasion regardless. Beating Brisbane at the Reebok is one of my alltime favourite RL memories. Our halves in that game were Travis Burns and Jon Wilkin. Our starting pack was Amor/Masoe/Greenwood/Vea/Flanagan (plus Roby again). Our coach was Keiron Cunningham. I'm not saying we will win, but it's fair to say we have more reason to be confident than last time out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The British Lion Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Brilliant. Well played Robinson and Roosters - please continue to lead the way in the NRL for promoting this game and the rest of NRL to take it more seriously. I won't pretend that for the first time in years, Ive disliked a team like St Helens to the point i was on the edge of not wanting them to win this (Purely down to McManus and his absolute abhorrent arrogance in 2019 which he has never taken back). But, as an Englishman, I'll hope to see Saints take the game to the Roosters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allora Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 19 hours ago, Dunbar said: I struggle to see how being injured can be described as 'ordinary'. I saw all his games and he was not presented with a single try scoring opportunity which he failed to convert. When Hall was selected he did exactly the job Robinson needed him to do (the same job Tupou does on the other wing) and helped the Roosters lay the platform for victory. Stats matter when they show perfectly one of the reasons why the Roosters are the champion team in the comp. Was he injured for most of the season or just not selected? Name players are often “injured” when they are not selected. Tupou played most of the season and scored 15 tries. What role do you think you know Robinson wanted from Hall? When I watched Hall he looked like he lacked confidence and often passed the ball. I watched most of his games and I can not relate the “metres made” with what I saw. He must have run the length of the field 5 times in the one game I did not see. Talent is secondary to whether players are confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookey Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 I assume nothing came from the tentative proposal that Canberra Raiders would also vist. Shame,I think they would have been a big draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 55 minutes ago, Allora said: Was he injured for most of the season or just not selected? Name players are often “injured” when they are not selected. Tupou played most of the season and scored 15 tries. What role do you think you know Robinson wanted from Hall? When I watched Hall he looked like he lacked confidence and often passed the ball. I watched most of his games and I can not relate the “metres made” with what I saw. He must have run the length of the field 5 times in the one game I did not see. In response to your points: Yes, he was injured when the season started as he was recovering from a serious injury. He recovered and was selected and the picked up another injury. It isn't complicated. Yes, Tupou didn't get injured did he. Neither did quite a few other players last year. I assume Robinson wanted Hall to play the way he did as that is also the way all the wingers play in Robinson's teams. No, he didn't pass the ball a lot. On the meters made, we are not arguing about what we both think, there are some actual facts here. He made more metres per game than any other Roosters winger and was 6th overall for backs in the NRL last year. It doesn't matter what you think he did, that is what he actually did. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Apropos Ryan Hall , it’s all relative to expectation and ability I guess . He did ok in his matches but no more than that really , because we know what Ryan Hall can do in his overall game ... conversely any winger is only as good as his service in terms of chances and the ball didn’t seem to come his way to much . He was coming off a long injury , in a new environment , and one where he hadn’t nailed down a spot . So there’s mitigation to a degree . I’d judge him this year if he gets a regular run off a good preseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allora Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 35 minutes ago, Dunbar said: In response to your points: Yes, he was injured when the season started as he was recovering from a serious injury. He recovered and was selected and the picked up another injury. It isn't complicated. Yes, Tupou didn't get injured did he. Neither did quite a few other players last year. I assume Robinson wanted Hall to play the way he did as that is also the way all the wingers play in Robinson's teams. No, he didn't pass the ball a lot. On the meters made, we are not arguing about what we both think, there are some actual facts here. He made more metres per game than any other Roosters winger and was 6th overall for backs in the NRL last year. It doesn't matter what you think he did, that is what he actually did. What is that role Dunbar? I know he was that impressive he barely got a game and when he did he scored no tries in 6 games. Tupou scored 15 tries from 26 games playing the same role his Coach wanted you say. I would expect most modern Coaches want Wingers to finish and score tries and at times run the ball up to relive the Forwards when in their own half. Wingers roles are often the easiest to define. Talent is secondary to whether players are confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 45 minutes ago, Allora said: What is that role Dunbar? I know he was that impressive he barely got a game and when he did he scored no tries in 6 games. Tupou scored 15 tries from 26 games playing the same role his Coach wanted you say. I would expect most modern Coaches want Wingers to finish and score tries and at times run the ball up to relive the Forwards when in their own half. Wingers roles are often the easiest to define. Are you really asking me to explain to you the role of a winger in modern Rugby League? if you are, just check a few posts up when we discussed the distribution of workload in the Roosters team. I am sure that Hall and Robinson would have preferred to get his name on the scoresheet in the games he played but unfortunately the Roosters attack didn't present him with any. Hall not getting on the scoresheet was in no way reflective of Hall's performances as he didn't bomb any opportunities. And what does 'barely got a game mean' mean? The guy was injured, are you saying a injury hit season means a player is poorer than the healthy players. When Roger Tuivasa-Sheck only played 7 games for the Warriors in 2016 due to injury does that mean he 'barely got a game'. I don't know why you find this complicated. Hall had a injury hit season and when he did play the stats show that he made a really good contribution to the team. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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