TboneFromTO Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 1 minute ago, aj1908 said: toronto should suck it up and not ask for any special rules. they wont get relegated anyway. noble has to learn to play by the rules. I see the point. And I understand the point, however when twp had their central funding removed from them, and forced to continue to pay for opposing travel, then the "rules" became pick and choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, aj1908 said: toronto should suck it up and not ask for any special rules. they wont get relegated anyway. noble has to learn to play by the rules. Does that mean they should get the 1.8 million in funding too? "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj1908 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said: I see the point. And I understand the point, however when twp had their central funding removed from them, and forced to continue to pay for opposing travel, then the "rules" became pick and choose. Yeh but realistically the other super league clubs don't have to do anything for a rival Imo it's bad management by the club If your talking about 100k for five juniors at.20k maybe they would Catalans don't get salary cap.exemptions And the quote.by bob Hunter earlier.says Toronto.gave up English tv rights.to.be able to sell.the.nh rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj1908 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Bob8 said: Does that mean they should get the 1.8 million in funding too? Yes if they didn't have the nh rights to sell Can't find the link it's disappeared Bob Hunter saying they inherited a bad deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Loup said: Yes. 1. Money isn't the obstacle; salary cap is. SBW only counts a relatively small amount against the team's salary cap. 2. SBW is a publicity-raising acquisition first and an on-field purchase second. Hopefully a really great player but he's already earned his crust in the international awareness he's brought both TWP and Super League. International awareness of SL's small time ways such as denying Toronto their share of the TV money and making them pay visiting teams' expenses isn't necessarily a good thing. 2 hours ago, Loup said: If you put aside the TWP angle for a moment, why is raising the salary cap a bad idea? Younger prospects/players not in the top squad are being paid peanuts. I have listened to three years of griping that there is only a finite pool of good northern lads in the sport and expansion teams will poach them away. What if there was a bit less of the wage suppression so more of the northern sons could afford to play full time? What if less wealthy clubs used the attention that TWP are bringing to the start of the season to up their sponsorships? Perhaps TWP wouldn't be the only beneficiaries. Not only so the northern sons could afford to play full time, but also so more of them will want to play the game in the first place and expand the player pool because they'll aspire to be like SBW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 22 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said: I see the point. And I understand the point, however when twp had their central funding removed from them, and forced to continue to pay for opposing travel, then the "rules" became pick and choose. Indeed, I do find people pretending the rules are sacred to be a little obtuse. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 We have to do what is best for the game and support expansion (for once)...Toronto deserves to be cut some slack on this after all they have done for the game and the League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Davo5 said: Your probably right but his signing is a genuine benefit to Superleague with a huge surge in media/public attention and with Sky rmaking him & Toronto a feature of their advertising campaign,who knows we have a genuine bargaining chip when the next broadcasting deal comes around. To be fair, 3 or 4 years ago, this signing wouldn't have been possible. Then the SL clubs supported the marquee rule and we are now seeing some very good signings and TWP able to sign SBW. So the SL clubs and the RFL drove changes through to facilitate this kind of signing. Unfortunately TWP went overboard and signed two marquee players in the lower division which was probably unnecessary and is now causing them a bit of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj1908 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 24 minutes ago, Dave T said: To be fair, 3 or 4 years ago, this signing wouldn't have been possible. Then the SL clubs supported the marquee rule and we are now seeing some very good signings and TWP able to sign SBW. So the SL clubs and the RFL drove changes through to facilitate this kind of signing. Unfortunately TWP went overboard and signed two marquee players in the lower division which was probably unnecessary and is now causing them a bit of an issue. Yep The guy they got from Cronulla is nothing special Mccrone is good enough for super league If they could've got latrell I think they make the finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 1 minute ago, aj1908 said: Yep The guy they got from Cronulla is nothing special Mccrone is good enough for super league If they could've got latrell I think they make the finals. McCrone didn't look good enough in the Championship never mind Super League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, Damien said: McCrone didn't look good enough in the Championship never mind Super League. and I doubt the more experienced refs he'll come across will be as tolerant to his constant chelping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Davo5 said: Sky certainly seem to think so going by their advert for the new season. Can you give us a brief summary of the ad for those who will never see it please, ie how prominently do TWP and SWB figure in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Bob8 said: It comes back to what the salary cap is for. If is it to give the traditional clubs the best possible chance, then there can be no dispensation - thems the rules. If it is to lessen (to the forum thickies - that does not mean eliminate) the chance of clubs going bankrupt, then it is arguable. If it is to give an even chance, there must be dispensation as being in Canada is a major disadvantage. I understand. That's why I think a modest bump of the cap by 5% is better than a special dispensation for just 1 club. For most clubs it won't matter - they aren't at the cap anyway. But a couple might be able to upgrade at a spot or replace someone injured. And for maybe another couple it might allow them to make a splash by making a marquee signing (how many Saracens are still looking for a new gig?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 2 hours ago, aj1908 said: Yes if they didn't have the nh rights to sell Can't find the link it's disappeared Bob Hunter saying they inherited a bad deal Sky wanted to be paid to release those rights and it seems a deal could not be reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDINTHEHIZZOUSE Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 7 hours ago, Dave T said: I want my youth back also Bob. I don't want the teams I supported back, both Wire and City were under-achievers! Is that you Stuart Pearce?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Dave T said: To be fair, 3 or 4 years ago, this signing wouldn't have been possible. Then the SL clubs supported the marquee rule and we are now seeing some very good signings and TWP able to sign SBW. So the SL clubs and the RFL drove changes through to facilitate this kind of signing. Unfortunately TWP went overboard and signed two marquee players in the lower division which was probably unnecessary and is now causing them a bit of an issue. Yes they did but how many of those "marquee" players provoked such a reaction from people/media from non RL followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDINTHEHIZZOUSE Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 7 hours ago, TboneFromTO said: And I look forward to buying the league eventually as well! Heaven forbid a team gets to pay for the best players available Jeeze some might start to call it a professional sport or something The downside of a team having the funds to buy any player they want is that the league stagnates. Do we want a competitive league where anything can happen,creating excitement and interest or do we want to roll back the years when Wigan (the obvious example) just rolled off the coach and won everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Damien said: McCrone didn't look good enough in the Championship never mind Super League. Give him another chance!...he will do better this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Bob8 said: It comes back to what the salary cap is for. If is it to give the traditional clubs the best possible chance, then there can be no dispensation - thems the rules. If it is to lessen (to the forum thickies - that does not mean eliminate) the chance of clubs going bankrupt, then it is arguable. If it is to give an even chance, there must be dispensation as being in Canada is a major disadvantage. 1 hour ago, TIWIT said: I understand. That's why I think a modest bump of the cap by 5% is better than a special dispensation for just 1 club. For most clubs it won't matter - they aren't at the cap anyway. But a couple might be able to upgrade at a spot or replace someone injured. And for maybe another couple it might allow them to make a splash by making a marquee signing (how many Saracens are still looking for a new gig?) If you would be so kind as to clarify for me, you are saying that the salary cap is to give traditional clubs the best chance? But, it would be a selective pressure against the weakest clubs? "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 7 hours ago, aj1908 said: to be fair thats not applicable in super league given union and nrl offer much higher wages. its what bob8 says above. keeping wages affordable given the games income Man of Kent did a confused smilie to this, so I think we should make it even easier for him. Though I think you have already explained it clearly. @Man of Kent, It could be suggested that the salary cap is to lessen the chances of clubs bankrupting themselves. This would apply both directly, but not allowing them to spend to much money. But, it also applies in another way. If one club starts spending a large amount of money on players wages, it forces all the other clubs to compete and pay more too. Of course, it is a little different with Toronto, as for most players having to spend much of your year in Canada will be a drawback. They might have to spend more to compete evenly for the same players. If you find this too complex, let me know which bit and I will be happy to explain further "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 23 minutes ago, SL17 said: Hence the Salary Cap is there for that reason. I’m astonished TWP are even asking the question? Their plan was SL from conception. What went wrong? You are in a very good position to answer this, what do you see the main intended function of the salary cap? "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Bob8 said: Man of Kent did a confused smilie to this, so I think we should make it even easier for him. Though I think you have already explained it clearly. @Man of Kent, It could be suggested that the salary cap is to lessen the chances of clubs bankrupting themselves. This would apply both directly, but not allowing them to spend to much money. But, it also applies in another way. If one club starts spending a large amount of money on players wages, it forces all the other clubs to compete and pay more too. Of course, it is a little different with Toronto, as for most players having to spend much of your year in Canada will be a drawback. They might have to spend more to compete evenly for the same players. If you find this too complex, let me know which bit and I will be happy to explain further Yes, indeed. Hence the “confused smilie” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 14 minutes ago, Bob8 said: If you would be so kind as to clarify for me, you are saying that the salary cap is to give traditional clubs the best chance? But, it would be a selective pressure against the weakest clubs? I think it really rankles other teams that what they perceive as cap mismanagement by TWP they are now asking for special dispensation, and while I do not agree with it I can see their point. Bumping the salary cap by 5% applies equally to ALL teams. It will be up to each individual team how to avail themselves of that extra space. For the weaker teams it will make no difference whatsoever since they are nowhere near the cap but the game cannot grow if it continues to let the lesser teams continue to dictate the terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Just now, TIWIT said: I think it really rankles other teams that what they perceive as cap mismanagement by TWP they are now asking for special dispensation, and while I do not agree with it I can see their point. Bumping the salary cap by 5% applies equally to ALL teams. It will be up to each individual team how to avail themselves of that extra space. For the weaker teams it will make no difference whatsoever since they are nowhere near the cap but the game cannot grow if it continues to let the lesser teams continue to dictate the terms. This does come to the purpose of the cap. If it is to keep an even competition, then there should be a special dispensation. Essentially, it would be like London weighting or travel expenses. Traveling regularly to Toronto is a major imposition on family life and exhausting. To be equally competitive for players, I would say they need to be able to offer more cash. If it is to stop clubs bankrupting themselves and each other, then any dispensation should be like London weighting, but be linkined to demonstrating it is more sustainable. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, SL17 said: A level playing field. Thanks! I am actually slightly surprised. For most players, I would imagine Toronto, with its disruption to family and social life, would actually be less appealing to play for than clubs in Lancs or Yorkshire. Would you agree with that? "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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