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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread


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8 hours ago, Dave T said:

This ain't a TWP thing, they are just the latest to feel the wrath of this weird concept that you somehow have to be a 'pure' club not corrupted by money. 

I'm a Wire and Man City fan and fans of clubs who have always been richer get upset when things start to change. Warrington not being the poor relation like we were when I started watching in the late 80s grates on some people. 

I knew there was ' something ' about you I didn't like ?

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11 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Thanks! I am actually slightly surprised.

For most players, I would imagine Toronto, with its disruption to family and social life, would actually be less appealing to play for than clubs in Lancs or Yorkshire. Would you agree with that?

Not directed at me, but yes, for a player with a family it might be. Hence TWP has to overpay.

But for a young unmarried guy it might be very appealing to spend part of your summer in Toronto.

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6 hours ago, Loup said:

If you put aside the TWP angle for a moment, why is raising the salary cap a bad idea? Younger prospects/players not in the top squad are being paid peanuts. I have listened to three years of griping that there is only a finite pool of good northern lads in the sport and expansion teams will poach them away.

What if there was a bit less of the wage suppression so more of the northern sons could afford to play full time?

What if less wealthy clubs used the attention that TWP are bringing to the start of the season to up their sponsorships?

Perhaps TWP wouldn't be the only beneficiaries.

 

You overestimate the potential for getting anything extra because of Toronto's inclusion 

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

You overestimate the potential for getting anything extra because of Toronto's inclusion 

I think it has to be compared to what the alternative to TWP offers. Which might seem cynical. 

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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On 24/01/2020 at 11:46, EssexRL said:

Toronto fatigue aside, I have to say I feel the opposite. There are lots of positives about the game and I feel really positive. 

I am wanting to believe that, but Wigan are on a Thursday again.  Hardly helpful.  Novelty of the opening game perhaps might help. But why are saints not the season opener?

Sorry off topic again

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17 minutes ago, SL17 said:

I would agree with that. Now if we go back to the conception of TWP when they joined L1. They joined with max salary cap courtesy of Mr Beaumont. Would TWP be in SL today if not for the change in the lower tiers SC? So the five year plan to get to SL was based on the SC being increased.

As you say, not only disruption but getting players from a higher level to drop down a notch is very costly. That doesn't give you an excuse for dispensation should you reach the promised land.

They've had 3 Years to build a squad. Some only get 3 months.

Thanks, you make very fair points.

As we agree that Toronto would be less appealling as an employer, a level playing field would require them to be able to offer more money. That Mr Beaumont has indeed done some fine work ?

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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5 hours ago, JDINTHEHIZZOUSE said:

The downside of a team having the funds to buy any player they want is that the league stagnates. Do we want a competitive league where anything can happen,creating excitement and interest or do we want to roll back the years when Wigan (the obvious example) just rolled off the coach and won everything? 

How many grand final winners have there been overall? 4ish?  I don't believe that argument holds up. Another team spending to the cap is only a good thing

Toronto can't get breaks for players in their 10th + season.  They can't get players from an academy, or the breaks those players bring. There's exemptions the twp aren't eligible for at this point in time. 

  That could be an argument for some dispensation - I do they they could have spent a little more wisely, but considering the average salary of a twp player (outside marquee) is about 71.5k I think that's a problem for the league as a whole. 

What do these guys do when they can't play rugby anymore?  The average salary is too low, especially with the mobility available after retirement, which comes mid to late 30s?  

I understand a need for a cap.  I think for SL it needs to be higher .

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agree with TBone  last line entirely. A competition calling itself Superleague should empower their teams by enabling them to attract top talent and you can;t do that with a 2.1m pd cap.

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42 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Who?

Consider Featherstone last year. If they had won the MPG and been promoted they would have had 3 months to overhaul their team because that team would not have been competitive in SL.

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And the latest SBW crisis dies. Super League and Betfred have agreed he may remove the Betfred logo from his shirt.

Yet another example of Toronto getting special treatment.

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3 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Consider Featherstone last year. If they had won the MPG and been promoted they would have had 3 months to overhaul their team because that team would not have been competitive in SL.

So Fev havnt been aspiring to compete at the highest level of the sport since their inception (1886)? Theyve had 100 years to build a good squad, and 24 since super league started.

 

They would have also been given 1.8 million in central funding....

 

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1 minute ago, TboneFromTO said:

So Fev havnt been aspiring to compete at the highest level of the sport since their inception (1886)? Theyve had 100 years to build a good squad, and 24 since super league started.

 

They would have also been given 1.8 million in central funding....

 

But only 3 months to pull a team together. They got hot at the just the right time and made an amazing run but stripped of all their DR players there is no way they would be anything but a nail in Super League.

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Just now, TIWIT said:

But only 3 months to pull a team together. They got hot at the just the right time and made an amazing run but stripped of all their DR players there is no way they would be anything but a nail in Super League.

Yeah that's true, but the 1.8 million extra would have helped them find from London, others out of contract and from the NRL.  

Bit that's the idea of promotion isn't it?  That's why there are core teams rebound between leagues in every p&r sport - not enough in the shop to keep them up!

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4 hours ago, SL17 said:

I would agree with that. Now if we go back to the conception of TWP when they joined L1. They joined with max salary cap courtesy of Mr Beaumont. Would TWP be in SL today if not for the change in the lower tiers SC? So the five year plan to get to SL was based on the SC being increased.

As you say, not only disruption but getting players from a higher level to drop down a notch is very costly. That doesn't give you an excuse for dispensation should you reach the promised land.

They've had 3 Years to build a squad. Some only get 3 months.

See when you put your mind to it you can make sense instead of.the normal stuff you post 

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7 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

See when you put your mind to it you can make sense instead of.the normal stuff you post 

Amen brother.

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8 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Yeah that's true, but the 1.8 million extra would have helped them find from London, others out of contract and from the NRL.  

Bit that's the idea of promotion isn't it?  That's why there are core teams rebound between leagues in every p&r sport - not enough in the shop to keep them up!

That would get them players all right, but to mold them into a cohesive, competitive team in that short a time? Pretty difficult I imagine.

This is also what I think a lot of people underestimate about TWP. Most of these guys have been playing together for 4 years now, all with the aim of reaching SL. Now that they're there that same team spirit should keep them there.

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11 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

That would get them players all right, but to mold them into a cohesive, competitive team in that short a time? Pretty difficult I imagine.

This is also what I think a lot of people underestimate about TWP. Most of these guys have been playing together for 4 years now, all with the aim of reaching SL. Now that they're there that same team spirit should keep them there.

This seems to be a hockey thing...many of these guys on here think we should get rid of our guys who have earned this...just throw them away and get new guys......however the sum is the total of its parts....these guys belong here.

There is alot RL could learn from Hockey.

Our boys will rise to the challenge...we just need about three/four more bodies is all.

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14 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

That would get them players all right, but to mold them into a cohesive, competitive team in that short a time? Pretty difficult I imagine.

This is also what I think a lot of people underestimate about TWP. Most of these guys have been playing together for 4 years now, all with the aim of reaching SL. Now that they're there that same team spirit should keep them there.

Im confident we will stay up!  Don't get me wrong, but I would like to be competitive as well.  

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56 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

agree with TBone  last line entirely. A competition calling itself Superleague should empower their teams by enabling them to attract top talent and you can;t do that with a 2.1m pd cap.

However, as we know, clubs can spend far more than £2.1m. TWP are spending more than that on one player. 

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8 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

This seems to be a hockey thing...many of these guys on here think we should get rid of our guys who have earned this...just throw them away and get new guys......however the sum is the total of its parts....these guys belong here.

There is alot RL could learn from Hockey.

Our boys will rise to the challenge...we just need about three/four more bodies is all.

Sonny Bill williams 

Man of steel 

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9 hours ago, Dave T said:

To be fair, 3 or 4 years ago, this signing wouldn't have been possible. Then the SL clubs supported the marquee rule and we are now seeing some very good signings and TWP able to sign SBW. So the SL clubs and the RFL drove changes through to facilitate this kind of signing. 

Unfortunately TWP went overboard and signed two marquee players in the lower division which was probably unnecessary and is now causing them a bit of an issue. 

Just re reading back and this makes The best sense 

 

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Surely TWP have known all along where they stand re: the SC as it has been in place ever since they joined the RFL competitions. So, the catalyst for needing more is, as others have stated above, signing SBW as a third marquee player and thus having to count yhe full salary of one in the cap (presumably the cheapest). TWP then ask for cap dispensation, did they not know they would blow the cap when they signed him? If not it is a terrible inditement of their cap management. 

Anyhow, putting that aside, some on here want the cap raising by 5% for them, and this is thought to be fair as ‘everyone can spend it’. Sorry, but that’s just not right - most of the clubs in SL run on a tight budget and that budget will have been planned pretty much to the last penny. Where will they get the extra funds from? The extra central funding? No, that will already be baked into their budgets! So, that’s not right unless, maybe TWP want to contribute each club’s increase? After all they do have a ‘magic money tree’?

(on that - does anyone know if argyle’s money is ‘given’ or is a directors loan?)

On the point of having them having to pay more to get players... I doubt that that is unique to TWP, I think that players put a salary premium on playing for a club for all sorts of reasons, e.g. whether they are likely to see out the term of their contract before the club either goes bust or is relegated.

Overall I think TWP have every right to ask (about an exemption) but they took a punt on getting SBW knowing full well that they could only have 2 MQ player salaries exempted, but went ahead anyway and are now giving us a sob story. Sorry, fellas, I think you should lose out on this one.

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37 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

This seems to be a hockey thing...many of these guys on here think we should get rid of our guys who have earned this...just throw them away and get new guys......however the sum is the total of its parts....these guys belong here.

There is alot RL could learn from Hockey.

Our boys will rise to the challenge...we just need about three/four more bodies is all.

Right on. I think hockey players and rugby players (both codes) are pretty alike in mentality. Team spirit and camaraderie can carry a determined group of players a long way.

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