TboneFromTO Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Dave T said: Hudgell's quote was interesting that TWP didn't play ball with the information requested from SLE. Maybe their negotiating tactic backfired particularly with SLE holding all the cards. Yeah that's an interesting strategy from what should be a new partner. They should have showed the books if asked!(I imagine due diligence would be done when any team gets promoted) Although some things he said left me scratching my head- SL don't own the TV rights in NA, so Toronto can't sell them. They sold them to sky (and sky *don't have to* do anything with them). I have a crack pot conspiracy theory about it, but unless anybody asks about it I won't say haha Another point is they have been talking about it for months, not two weeks like he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said: Yeah that's an interesting strategy from what should be a new partner. They should have showed the books if asked!(I imagine due diligence would be done when any team gets promoted) Although some things he said left me scratching my head- SL don't own the TV rights in NA, so Toronto can't sell them. They sold them to sky (and sky *don't have to* do anything with them). I have a crack pot conspiracy theory about it, but unless anybody asks about it I won't say haha Another point is they have been talking about it for months, not two weeks like he says. It was interesting that Elstone also criticised the fact that this had come up so late in the day, although I'm not sure if his frustration was aimed more at the RFL who are the ones who put it to the SLE board I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Highlander Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Dave T said: Apologies mate, I didn't mean it as harsh as it maybe sounded, but even basic things like ticket price wouldn't be as high as £30, and fans certainly wouldn't then spend an average of a further £30 on refreshments. I do think the uplift is overstated, but that is just a personal opinion and I'd be very happy to be wrong on that, I know my wife is certainly more interested now SBW is back in RL (not sure what she sees in him!!!). But on the flip side, there may be more corporate interest at some of these games so who knows what the numbers will be. And there is a risk of injury, or bad weather, or clubs on a bad run of form, which will trump the SBW factor. t I'll be interesting to watch, but I'd question any rationale like this putting a benefit of a million quid on it just yet. OK Dave......fair enough......let's see how it all shakes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loup Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Part of the last-minute deal to allow TWP into Super League included the commitment that Wolfpack would pay hotels and flights for SL teams for the 2020 season. This is not what was discussed originally - Wolfpack agreed to accommodation and flights for away teams only while they were in League 1 and Championship. One might have thought that the extra share of central funding would have easily paid for these costs, but Wolfpack got gouged again. What happens after 2020? Who can say. How about SL set up its own travel sponsorship deal to cover all the visiting teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfTexEvans Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 2 hours ago, TIWIT said: No, it's Sky bashing, not Toronto bashing. I think everyone wants to see as many games as possible aired. I think if anything it show's the weaknesses in the TV deal that got negotiated last time around. Still think its odd that sky would allow playoff games to go out on CBC but not Super League. They also allowed Championship games to go out. Basically that going to be a steady number of Rugby League fans if shown at a sensible time regardless of the level its played at. Unless its a change of people at Sky and the attitude towards Toronto has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TboneFromTO Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: You're right that someone alread owns the NA rights but I dont think its sky. Fox (under the same umbrella as sky) own the usa rights, I can't find any info about Canada specifically, from what I understood about the Sportsnet world deal they were just buying broadcast feeds from sky (would love to be wrong, just my current understanding) 13 minutes ago, Dave T said: It was interesting that Elstone also criticised the fact that this had come up so late in the day, although I'm not sure if his frustration was aimed more at the RFL who are the ones who put it to the SLE board I believe. Whoever it was aimed at its probably justified. Unless Toronto were told "let's negotiate this salary cap thing later" in the whole promotion debacle, then it should have been sorted by the point of promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moove Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 14 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: You're right that someone alread owns the NA rights but I dont think its sky. I was under the impression that Sky held the rights to international distribution however the only reference I can find to this goes back to 2015. Not sure why they'd be involved in negotiations with international TV partners otherwise. https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/super_league_ties_up_international_broadcast_rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertAM Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 at the end of the day it all boils down to one single question..does RL (and SL in particular) want expansion? if they do they should be supporting the North American beachhead..ie Wolfpack..if they do not then say so and David Argyle, Eric Perez plus NYRL can go about forming an international RL competition, invite Catalans, Olympique, Red Star, Valencia etc etc to the dance and show up the myopic SL owners by making a real success of it. Make me really sad because I'd really miss some of the fantastic and enthusiastic fans that we've had over here during the course of the last 3 years. The whole experiment rekindled my love of the game and generated worldwide interest in European RL something the current braintrust was unable to do prior to the WP coming on the scene. I'd say we were owed some respect and consideration..seems to be in short supply esp in and around Hull! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hull Kingston Bronco Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 5 hours ago, scotchy1 said: Hudgell is absolutely the biggest hypocrite in the game. Toronto shouldn't play this out in public but it's perfectly right for him to criticise Adam walker in public https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/37625807 Koukash, Salford and the RFL in public https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/hudgell-criticises-koukash-salford-damning-statement-4733/ Andrew Chalmers https://www.totalrl.com/neil-hudgell-issues-scathing-farewell-comment-to-ex-bradford-owner-andrew-chalmers/ Or being one of the vocal owners during the split from the RFL He had no problem with being cynical.in taking the RFL to.court through stanley gene to get his club extra quota spots, no problem with deregistering players to.get around the quota.for willie Mason no issue with being cynical in the signing of Paul Cooke, No problem with his own club receiving special dispensation to sign players over the quota Hard to argue with this to be honest. Like anyone from East Hull, I love Hudg because he saved our club and fights our corner, but he’s always been prepared to push the envelope to do that so this faux moral high ground doesn’t really play well for me. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander Apparently this site says I "won the day" here on 23rd Jan, 19th Jan, 9th Jan also 13th December, whatever any of that means. Anyway, 4 times in a few weeks? The forum must be going to the dogs - you people need to seriously up your game. Where's Dutoni when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 14 minutes ago, RobertAM said: at the end of the day it all boils down to one single question..does RL (and SL in particular) want expansion? if they do they should be supporting the North American beachhead..ie Wolfpack..if they do not then say so and David Argyle, Eric Perez plus NYRL can go about forming an international RL competition, invite Catalans, Olympique, Red Star, Valencia etc etc to the dance and show up the myopic SL owners by making a real success of it. Make me really sad because I'd really miss some of the fantastic and enthusiastic fans that we've had over here during the course of the last 3 years. The whole experiment rekindled my love of the game and generated worldwide interest in European RL something the current braintrust was unable to do prior to the WP coming on the scene. I'd say we were owed some respect and consideration..seems to be in short supply esp in and around Hull! I suspect that the answer is that they don't really want it because to them it's a headache they'd rather not have to deal with. That said, if and when a new transatlantic RL competition comes about I wouldn't expect too many of the groups you listed to be involved because other than David Argyle and maybe Eric Pérez's Ottawa group they don't have the sort of money required and in the case of Ricky Wilby and his partner they don't seem to understand the market in the place where they want to set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, SL17 said: So ask yourself! Does TWP want expansion? "No, we are an expansion team so we do not want expansion." For the Love of Mike!,,,,, SL 17 you have to raise your game...you are starting to sound like the SL owners (light bends as it approaches their heads.)...you can do better...I'm a little disappointed in ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj1908 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 8 hours ago, Man of Kent said: Oh dear. It seems turkeys don’t vote for Christmas. Now what for the rugby disrupters? Excellent bait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojx Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Instead of financial dispensation. How about allowing Toronto to sign Canadian players off the cap (instead as counting them as an overseas player)? Then we could get the Ngwati deal over the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj1908 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 What are you all arguing about now? Wolfpack Were given a 5 percent salary cap increase The tv deals were signed with with years ago It is what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadera78 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Hudgell's comments don't exactly do much to dispel the 'small town, small minded, small sport' label that the game has. The talk of subsidising Toronto is clearly a reference to no away fans. And saying Toronto just need to get their own TV deal, well that's not going to happen if SKY (or anyone else) already own the rights and are demanding over the odds for them to be relinquished. Besides which, for any RL club owner to criticise another as cynical or manipulative is hysterical tbh, because every single club in the game would bend every rule in the book in order to get one over their rivals. Hudgell''s done it plenty of times himself. This whole sport is so ludicrously, pathetically, unceasingly parochial. It's a snapshot of modern Britain. "Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart." Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojx Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 What is anyones view of this General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread? I think it ruins many independent distinct discussion-points and frankly makes me lose interest in going to the general forum. Following this idea there could just be 12 general forums for each SL team and one for championship teams. And no new ideas or developments would be indicated in the list of threads on the forum. Toronto's entry into SL is a huge current topic with many different implications. If moderators did their job, they could handle or merge threads, this is a very lazy response. Edit: I know it is not a "job" for the moderators as they are volunteers, but I believe these threads could be better managed with earlier intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj1908 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, nadera78 said: Hudgell's comments don't exactly do much to dispel the 'small town, small minded, small sport' label that the game has. The talk of subsidising Toronto is clearly a reference to no away fans. And saying Toronto just need to get their own TV deal, well that's not going to happen if SKY (or anyone else) already own the rights and are demanding over the odds for them to be relinquished. Besides which, for any RL club owner to criticise another as cynical or manipulative is hysterical tbh, because every single club in the game would bend every rule in the book in order to get one over their rivals. Hudgell''s done it plenty of times himself. This whole sport is so ludicrously, pathetically, unceasingly parochial. It's a snapshot of modern Britain. Give the wolfpack a year in super league and I think they will win over their detractors It's free.expansion for the game in England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj1908 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 What a weird question that is. Can someone tell him Toronto wolfpack are expansion themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, aj1908 said: Give the wolfpack a year in super league and I think they will win over their detractors It's free.expansion for the game in England Not the fans of the team who gets relegated at the end of the season (hint, it won't be Toronto). Then we'll see the true heartland mentality put to the test. Will they let one of their go down or expand? Much depends on Sky's TV money of course, but once that fundamental change has been opened up then everything is fair game. Argyle will eat these little fish alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj1908 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 minute ago, TIWIT said: Not the fans of the team who gets relegated at the end of the season (hint, it won't be Toronto). Then we'll see the true heartland mentality put to the test. Will they let one of their go down or expand? Much depends on Sky's TV money of course, but once that fundamental change has been opened up then everything is fair game. Argyle will eat these little fish alive. It happened loads of times When Leigh lost mpg vs Catalans and they went down Widnes went down from 9th spot or something similar when Catalans finished last and were exempt from relegation Widnes fans at.the time took if fairly well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 26 minutes ago, aj1908 said: Wolfpack Were given a 5 percent salary cap increase When did this happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj1908 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, TIWIT said: When did this happen? https://www.totalrl.com/the-105000-toronto-salary-cap-dispensation-proposal/ Oops it's not approved yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 minute ago, aj1908 said: It happened loads of times When Leigh lost mpg vs Catalans and they went down Widnes went down from 9th spot or something similar when Catalans finished last and were exempt from relegation Widnes fans at.the time took if fairly well Their defeat by TWP in 2018 relegated Widnes and started all their troubles. But i think its a different situation when TWP are already there and taking the place of a heartland team. Then it becomes circle-the-wagons time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, aj1908 said: https://www.totalrl.com/the-105000-toronto-salary-cap-dispensation-proposal/ Oops it's not approved yet. Yeah, didn't think so. If it had it would render a great deal of the discussion here moot. Or maybe not. It would certainly change the tone of the discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 minute ago, SL17 said: Then you do your talking on the park. Yes, that is the current plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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