The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Bob8]

Just now, Big Picture said:

Perhaps it should have been the first thing needed.

Indeed.

It is the first step, and how can that step be taken.

Let's catch up again in a month or two, when I am even more bitter

[GUBRATS]

What a truly interesting few hours I've just caught up on 

What was the point of discussion again ?

[CanadianRugger]

7 hours ago, Dave T said:

So a potential customer base of a couple of thousand?

I'm certain every Super League club would love to have a couple of thousand extra fans and their families available to attend their matches.

Imagine if Leeds Rhinos games were at the same time every Rugby Club in Leeds was playing their matches?

That's what TWP face due to the scheduling.

[CanadianRugger]

6 hours ago, TheReaper said:

I agree with that. You can't win every thing every time. Again, they don't have to be the best, but they could not be the worst.

2k of what should in theory be your core. 

Every sports number out of 6 million is modest. When it's 2k out of 9k, that's over 20% potential increase to attendance. That pushes the number well over sellouts which means ticket values increase.

I'm really questioning the logic used by some here.  

[GIANTSTRIDES]

The amazing thing to me is, why would Toronto even want to get involved with such a small time sport as League in the first place, Absolutely nothing seems as though it will run smooth, Everyone is hoping it can push the game onward ( including me )but  on here it seems to have caused nothing but division, I get the feeling that it's not going to be a lot smoother anywhere else.

 It's easy enough to come on here and say what needs to be done and what has to be done but i recon there are a few people  in the game who are pumping money in besides Toronto, and they might want a say in how things are done.

[Dave T]

19 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

I'm certain every Super League club would love to have a couple of thousand extra fans and their families available to attend their matches.

Imagine if Leeds Rhinos games were at the same time every Rugby Club in Leeds was playing their matches?

That's what TWP face due to the scheduling.

It is a really small population. If the number is 2k, only a modest proportion would attend, so we may be talking a couple of hundred in reality. 

[Dave T]

To summarise. 

English club fans complain about scheduling being inconvenient, they get slated for being small time. 

Toronto fans complain about scheduling being inconvenient, English get slated for being small time. 

 

[CanadianRugger]

10 minutes ago, GIANTSTRIDES said:

The amazing thing to me is, why would Toronto even want to get involved with such a small time sport as League in the first place, Absolutely nothing seems as though it will run smooth, Everyone is hoping it can push the game onward ( including me )but  on here it seems to have caused nothing but division, I get the feeling that it's not going to be a lot smoother anywhere else.

 It's easy enough to come on here and say what needs to be done and what has to be done but i recon there are a few people  in the game who are pumping money in besides Toronto, and they might want a say in how things are done.

DA likes the sport but also seems to think he can make money off it long term.

Reality is, the cost of entry is ridiculously low.  Expansion in most Major League Sports in NA is priced in the 100s of Millions of dollars now.

Vancouver and Montreal paid roughly $40 million each to join MLS a decade ago and would pay considerably more now.

[Loup]

6 hours ago, Dave T said:

I understand the frustration, and you know better than me about local sport in Toronto, but I don't see 1.30pm as a massively controversial kick off time. 

In 2017/2018 our kickoff time was 4 p.m. Fans loved it. Game then pub then home. Remember also it can be horrendously hot in the middle of the day in July and August. The 1 p.m. slot was forced by the visiting teams who wanted to catch the Saturday night Air Transat flight to Manchester rather than fly on Sunday, when AT flies only to Glasgow.

We had hoped that SL might mean visiting clubs would be paying their own way and free to take any airline of their choice. But Wolfpack has been stuck with travel costs for at least this season and so us fans are again landed with a 1 p.m. kickoff to suit the AT schedule.

[GIANTSTRIDES]

So it's basically a money making venture then, I wish him luck with that. If clubs like Wigan Leeds and the like who have been going well over 100 years cant make money it's difficult to see Toronto doing it with all the added cost that they will have.

[CanadianRugger]

6 minutes ago, GIANTSTRIDES said:

So it's basically a money making venture then, I wish him luck with that. If clubs like Wigan Leeds and the like who have been going well over 100 years cant make money it's difficult to see Toronto doing it with all the added cost that they will have.

That's because the model he is using is different.

St Helens, Warrington, Leeds all make a profit but not a very large one.  If TWP are able to stay in Super League and solidify themselves, I predict within 10 years, they will be the most valuable SL Club, by a long shot.  The Wolfpack will become a vehicle for other assets, see link:

https://rugbystrengthcbd.com/

Owning a Rugby League in Canada is basically comparable price wise to owning a Major Junior Hockey Club here (which are 16-20 year olds trying to make NHL)

https://www.tsn.ca/talent/chl-franchises-worth-millions-can-afford-to-pay-players-study-1.522306

[Loup]

2 minutes ago, GIANTSTRIDES said:

So it's basically a money making venture then, I wish him luck with that. If clubs like Wigan Leeds and the like who have been going well over 100 years cant make money it's difficult to see Toronto doing it with all the added cost that they will have.

It's two things. Argyle is a rugby league nut with a lot of money. He could pay for a team to feed his passion or he could buy a luxury yacht.

Argyle is also a businessman. He is interested in building a brand for other ventures. His CBD muscle liniment for example.

I doubt he expects to make money simply from owning the Wolfpack. He has broader ambitions than that. It helps explain why he went after Sonny Bill.

 

[Dave T]

13 minutes ago, Loup said:

In 2017/2018 our kickoff time was 4 p.m. Fans loved it. Game then pub then home. Remember also it can be horrendously hot in the middle of the day in July and August. The 1 p.m. slot was forced by the visiting teams who wanted to catch the Saturday night Air Transat flight to Manchester rather than fly on Sunday, when AT flies only to Glasgow.

We had hoped that SL might mean visiting clubs would be paying their own way and free to take any airline of their choice. But Wolfpack has been stuck with travel costs for at least this season and so us fans are again landed with a 1 p.m. kickoff to suit the AT schedule.

AT now only fly into Manchester or Glasgow on the Monday. Sunday flights into London. 

The crowds have held up well with the early afternoon kickoff though haven't they? 

[Smudger06]

35 minutes ago, Dave T said:

To summarise. 

English club fans complain about scheduling being inconvenient, they get slated for being small time. 

Toronto fans complain about scheduling being inconvenient, English get slated for being small time. 

 

With a side dish of Super League not worthy of Toronto, the NRL would welcome them with open arms & a dessert of that kind of travel is no issue. 

[aj1908]

9 hours ago, Dave T said:

They are playing in the Betfred Super League. 

that didnt answer my post at all.  they dont have to do a single thing to improve tv ratings since they dont get anything out of it.

its nice how accomdating the engish game is isnt it lol

[aj1908]

the funny thing is union fans are getting excited at the arrows getting crowds of 2k or so.  union has a longer history and is a much bigger sport in canada than league.

yet the wolfpack at the lamport get over 8k and will get more in super league.

and people are questioning them.

if they were playing union they would be singing from the rooftops about this particular club.

yet we as a sport treat them with a little bit of suspicion because they do things differently, and you know, what is a team from toronto doing in an english league.

[Loup]

45 minutes ago, Dave T said:

AT now only fly into Manchester or Glasgow on the Monday. Sunday flights into London. 

The crowds have held up well with the early afternoon kickoff though haven't they? 

That's their winter schedule. AT's fleet is going to the Caribbean and Florida at this time of the year. Flights to UK/Europe ramp up for spring/summer.

[aj1908]

1 hour ago, Loup said:

In 2017/2018 our kickoff time was 4 p.m. Fans loved it. Game then pub then home. Remember also it can be horrendously hot in the middle of the day in July and August. The 1 p.m. slot was forced by the visiting teams who wanted to catch the Saturday night Air Transat flight to Manchester rather than fly on Sunday, when AT flies only to Glasgow.

We had hoped that SL might mean visiting clubs would be paying their own way and free to take any airline of their choice. But Wolfpack has been stuck with travel costs for at least this season and so us fans are again landed with a 1 p.m. kickoff to suit the AT schedule.

on top of the crappy game times, also playing 4 or so home games in england isnt a help.  or the fact the wolfpack wont have played at home until the season is well under way

[aj1908]

1 hour ago, GIANTSTRIDES said:

The amazing thing to me is, why would Toronto even want to get involved with such a small time sport as League in the first place, Absolutely nothing seems as though it will run smooth, Everyone is hoping it can push the game onward ( including me )but  on here it seems to have caused nothing but division, I get the feeling that it's not going to be a lot smoother anywhere else.

 It's easy enough to come on here and say what needs to be done and what has to be done but i recon there are a few people  in the game who are pumping money in besides Toronto, and they might want a say in how things are done.

those other clubs who have sugar daddies also have tv money as well.  

[aj1908]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

To summarise. 

English club fans complain about scheduling being inconvenient, they get slated for being small time. 

Toronto fans complain about scheduling being inconvenient, English get slated for being small time. 

 

yes because the people complaining about point one are the people complaining about point two

point two is spot on.  wolfpack should play their games when it best suits their crowds.  if visiting teams have to stay an extra night or catch an extra bus to get home, boo hoo

[CanadianRugger]

52 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

the funny thing is union fans are getting excited at the arrows getting crowds of 2k or so.  union has a longer history and is a much bigger sport in canada than league.

yet the wolfpack at the lamport get over 8k and will get more in super league.

and people are questioning them.

if they were playing union they would be singing from the rooftops about this particular club.

yet we as a sport treat them with a little bit of suspicion because they do things differently, and you know, what is a team from toronto doing in an english league.

Toronto Arrows just announced a TV deal with TSN.  All games are to be shown on TSN2 and TSN Go.

[ojx]

1 hour ago, CanadianRugger said:

Toronto Arrows just announced a TV deal with TSN.  All games are to be shown on TSN2 and TSN Go.

I can see the Arrows crowds growing slowly and steadily. MLR is very much an experiment in progress (but so are the TWP). However, it in conceivable that in 5-10 years MLR is commercially richer than Super League, and that would make TWP look like the poor cousin..They have already done well to get TSN, ESPN and NBC on board, even if they are probably paying peanuts. It is all about finding investors who can stay the course until a future lucrative TV deal. This is how it was for MLS.

[TIWIT]

50 pages and counting. But do we need to organize a search party for Kayakman?

[TheReaper]

19 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

50 pages and counting. But do we need to organize a search party for Kayakman?

Whoooo hooo!!!!

[CanadianRugger]

1 hour ago, ojx said:

I can see the Arrows crowds growing slowly and steadily. MLR is very much an experiment in progress (but so are the TWP). However, it in conceivable that in 5-10 years MLR is commercially richer than Super League, and that would make TWP look like the poor cousin..They have already done well to get TSN, ESPN and NBC on board, even if they are probably paying peanuts. It is all about finding investors who can stay the course until a future lucrative TV deal. This is how it was for MLS.

One of the MLR teams, Austin, already almost folded but was bought by the owner of fellow league rival, San Diego Legion who apparently has very deep pockets.

MLR is being run by business people and in order to own a team, you have to buy in to the league.   It is in fact one ownership group with their respective clubs being worth equal shares in the entire operation.