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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread


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14 minutes ago, Loup said:

Wolfpack didn't "sign up to" being stiffed out of central funding. They didn't even know until three days before the MPG that they'd be admitted to SL if they won.

Wolfpack "signed up to" paying travel and accommodation for away teams as long as they were in League 1 and Championship. The original understanding was that arrangement would end if they achieved SL - the corollary being that SL clubs would pay for their own. Of course the SL nabobs forced another year of paying for travel and accommodation on Wolfpack.

Caught both ways, MoK, by the SL clubs.

Visiting teams are getting a good, convenient, newly renovated hotel. Why does even this need to be picked apart?

My point exactly. TWP made a deal with a well-known international brand to put visiting teams up - which by rights they should not be obliged to do but were given little choice in the matter, having a virtual gun put to their heads - and for some it's still not enough.

Free air transport. Free lodging. Free ground transport. I can only assume visiting clubs pay for their own food - some probably brown-bag it.

People, this is NOT how professional sports are meant to operate. All teams are equal members and everyone pays their own way. 

This way is a recipe for failure. And it seems that they're many in Britain who want to see TWP fail, from the owners of other SL teams to their fans.

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Just now, Loup said:

That quote suggested that SL clubs should pay their own way when travelling, like any other pro sports team would do. Hardly offensive  - in fact, a valid comment that SL clubs have landed themselves another big favour on Wolfpack's tab. And it wasn't a specific put down of any individual club. Whereas this thread is turning into a small-minded nigglefest against Wolfpack fans. Even the hotel choice is now being picked apart like granny's embroidery.

Sorry, I didn't realise its a compliment to call someone cheap in Canada, its certainly not a compliment here. I'll give you the money to get your teeth fixed if you go up to someone in hull and call them cheap. 

I don't know, maybe Toronto fans haven't realised it yet but it may surprise you that rugby league is a small sport in Britain with very little money and investment. As someone who has been around the sport for a long time, I understand why some clubs have concerns about paying to fly 30 odd people and all their equipment out to Toronto and pay for a hotel for a few nights, some teams twice. But whatever, let's criticise people for not having much money, yeah that's not insensitive at all. 

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4 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Sorry, I didn't realise its a compliment to call someone cheap in Canada, its certainly not a compliment here. I'll give you the money to get your teeth fixed if you go up to someone in hull and call them cheap. 

I don't know, maybe Toronto fans haven't realised it yet but it may surprise you that rugby league is a small sport in Britain with very little money and investment. As someone who has been around the sport for a long time, I understand why some clubs have concerns about paying to fly 30 odd people and all their equipment out to Toronto and pay for a hotel for a few nights, some teams twice. But whatever, let's criticise people for not having much money, yeah that's not insensitive at all. 

Who is playing the victim and acting cheap again?

Anyways the deal is set for this year and it is what it is...hopefully it all works out and next year a new funding arrangement can be made....it needs to be looked at but lets see how it goes this year....all part of the growing process.

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Just now, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I don't know, maybe Toronto fans haven't realised it yet but it may surprise you that rugby league is a small sport in Britain with very little money and investment. As someone who has been around the sport for a long time, I understand why some clubs have concerns about paying to fly 30 odd people and all their equipment out to Toronto and pay for a hotel for a few nights, some teams twice. But whatever, let's criticise people for not having much money, yeah that's not insensitive at all. 

Yes I do get all of that, believe me, I do. And so do Wolfpack fans in general. No one minded Wolfpack paying for League 1 and Champ clubs and everyone who visited Lamport will tell you they were made very welcome.

So Wolfpack AGREE again to pay for all travel and accomm costs for 2020 - you'd think some of you would say thank you, that's great, we're so pleased our clubs don't have to incur those costs, we really appreciate this arrangement. But no, there is criticism of anyone who says, wait a minute, why is Wolfpack paying, which is a completely valid question, and then we have the spectacular nonsense of people pre-emptively moaning about the Holiday Inn as being not suitable enough for our fine English lads in advance of the season in Toronto even starting up.

No one is criticizing people for not having much money. What I find hard to stomach is that every positive thing Wolfpack tries to offer is subject to such negativity and backchat.

 

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11 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Sorry, I didn't realise its a compliment to call someone cheap in Canada, its certainly not a compliment here. I'll give you the money to get your teeth fixed if you go up to someone in hull and call them cheap. 

I don't know, maybe Toronto fans haven't realised it yet but it may surprise you that rugby league is a small sport in Britain with very little money and investment. As someone who has been around the sport for a long time, I understand why some clubs have concerns about paying to fly 30 odd people and all their equipment out to Toronto and pay for a hotel for a few nights, some teams twice. But whatever, let's criticise people for not having much money, yeah that's not insensitive at all. 

Over here, even minor-league baseball and hockey teams, who travel literally thousands of miles a season by bus criss-crossing the continent stay in hotels and eat food that they pay for. 

SL teams could and should do the same. The reason they don't? They were able to force someone else to pay for their travel and lodging. And that makes them look unprofessional and, well, cheap.

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5 minutes ago, Loup said:

Yes I do get all of that, believe me, I do. And so do Wolfpack fans in general. No one minded Wolfpack paying for League 1 and Champ clubs and everyone who visited Lamport will tell you they were made very welcome.

So Wolfpack AGREE again to pay for all travel and accomm costs for 2020 - you'd think some of you would say thank you, that's great, we're so pleased our clubs don't have to incur those costs, we really appreciate this arrangement. But no, there is criticism of anyone who says, wait a minute, why is Wolfpack paying, which is a completely valid question, and then we have the spectacular nonsense of people pre-emptively moaning about the Holiday Inn as being not suitable enough for our fine English lads in advance of the season in Toronto even starting up.

No one is criticizing people for not having much money. What I find hard to stomach is that every positive thing Wolfpack tries to offer is subject to such negativity and backchat.

 

??

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2 hours ago, Michael1812 said:

More like 20-25 mins drive. Basically two motorways for the whole journey. Nice drive, I do miss that route. It was pretty much the same route from my old house to my wafe’s patent’s housr. 

See @Les Tonks Sidestep - my googling was just fine, I'll take 20 minutes without speeding :kolobok_biggrin:

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1 minute ago, Loup said:

Yes I do get all of that, believe me, I do. And so do Wolfpack fans in general. No one minded Wolfpack paying for League 1 and Champ clubs and everyone who visited Lamport will tell you they were made very welcome.

So Wolfpack AGREE again to pay for all travel and accomm costs for 2020 - you'd think some of you would say thank you, that's great, we're so pleased our clubs don't have to incur those costs, we really appreciate this arrangement. But no, there is criticism of anyone who says, wait a minute, why is Wolfpack paying, which is a completely valid question, and then we have the spectacular nonsense of people pre-emptively moaning about the Holiday Inn as being not suitable enough for our fine English lads in advance of the season in Toronto even starting up.

No one is criticizing people for not having much money. What I find hard to stomach is that every positive thing Wolfpack tries to offer is subject to such negativity and backchat.

 

It sounds like you understand where I'm coming from so thank you for that and you are right, we should appreciate what Toronto are doing for our clubs when it comes to the paying of costs because it is a lot of money so thank you as well for that. I will admit, I'd never really considered the lack of thanks that has been offered. 

From my own personal point of view, I don't understand the criticism of the choice of hotel. I don't think it really matters that much and it will be better than the previous place no doubt. I made a comment about my preferred choice of hotel when I'm travelling but that was not a comment directly directed (is that good English?) at this topic. I also don't agree with the holding back of TV money. Toronto are a team in the super league which is being given money by sky to be shown on their channel and the theory is that money is supposed to be split equally so as I say, I don't see the reason to hold it back. It might have been a good idea to pay for the travel out of that money but obviously that isn't what's happened so it's an irrelavent point. 

On the flip side, I don't like people saying super leagues chairman don't want Toronto because that's just not true. No super league chairman has actually said those words and you have to remember, SL voted to allow Toronto into the league. If they didn't want then they wouldn't have admitted them. If SL chairmen have any concerns it is to do with the finances of their own teams. It was similar when catalans came in, a big concern in both situations is loss of revenue due to less away fans. I do find it great that Toronto are bringing some fans across and they are really happy, enthusiastic people. It is still a smaller number of people than British teams would bring though. I'm sure you understand why chairmen will have some concerns. 

People don't like it when Toronto say they want to be treated equally and then ask for salary cap dispensations and ask for their schedule to be worked out to suit them better. It is not the fault of other teams that Toronto have managed their salary cap badly and can't play in Canada for the first couple of months. While no one is blantently saying that other clubs are to blame it just feels sometimes that should someone offer a criticism of Toronto it is the first thing some people jump to. I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying it feels like that with a small group. 

Again, Toronto do deserve praise for accommodating the needs of other teams and they don't get enough thanks. I hope I've offered a relatively rounded view of my feelings towards Toronto. ?

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1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

It’s acceptable but no more. Cheap and cheerful.

I think you are overstating this one. Holiday Inns are a solid major chain and they were the official provider for the 2008 WC in Aus, and other RL tournaments. 

They are not travelodge, they are decent hotels and a major international brand. 

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22 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Over here, even minor-league baseball and hockey teams, who travel literally thousands of miles a season by bus criss-crossing the continent stay in hotels and eat food that they pay for. 

SL teams could and should do the same. The reason they don't? They were able to force someone else to pay for their travel and lodging. And that makes them look unprofessional and, well, cheap.

No that is not the reason. The reason is a lot of super league teams can't afford to pay to travel to Toronto. Some teams really are counting pennies. Believe me though, its better now than it was 30 years ago. Back then teams could barely afford to fill up the bog rolls in the portable loos round the back of the pile of bricks. 

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52 minutes ago, Loup said:

Whereas this thread is turning into a small-minded nigglefest against Wolfpack fans. Even the hotel choice is now being picked apart like granny's embroidery.

 

47 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

My point exactly. TWP made a deal with a well-known international brand to put visiting teams up - which by rights they should not be obliged to do but were given little choice in the matter, having a virtual gun put to their heads - and for some it's still not enough.

 

See this is the issue. TIWIT you have been called out for suggesting that people are not happy with the hotel - so who are all these people? MoK is the only one mildly criticising Holiday Inn. You didn't reply to my challenge, you have just doubled down. 

And apparently the hotel is being picked apart, well no, this is the fake narrative at play once again. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

See @Les Tonks Sidestep - my googling was just fine, I'll take 20 minutes without speeding :kolobok_biggrin:

My mistake - I usually have 'maps' set to imperial but it's reverted to metric, presumably at the last upgrade! 

As for the actual hotel, it's absolutely fine and pretty much what you'd expect from a HI - rooms are bigger than those I've stayed at in the UK. It's quiet (despite proximity to the airport), comfortable, there's a decent restaurant, gym and a pool. Nearby are plenty of other eating establishments. 

As well as the Fev squad the match officials were based there for the 2019 MPG.

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2 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

My mistake - I usually have 'maps' set to imperial but it's reverted to metric, presumably at the last upgrade! 

As for the actual hotel, it's absolutely fine and pretty much what you'd expect from a HI - rooms are bigger than those I've stayed at in the UK. It's quiet (despite proximity to the airport), comfortable, there's a decent restaurant, gym and a pool. Nearby are plenty of other eating establishments. 

As well as the Fev squad the match officials were based there for the 2019 MPG.

Aye, stayed in many Holiday Inns and know they have provided for RL tournaments before so all good as far as I'm concerned.. I assume the players will have a coach to move them back and to. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Aye, stayed in many Holiday Inns and know they have provided for RL tournaments before so all good as far as I'm concerned.. I assume the players will have a coach to move them back and to. 

Nope...we are making them jog to Lamport...we need all the advantages we can get.

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Just now, Dave T said:

Aye, stayed in many Holiday Inns and know they have provided for RL tournaments before so all good as far as I'm concerned.. I assume the players will have a coach to move them back and to. 

Pretty sure Fev did. They also used public transport to get in and out of the centre after the match - really good (and cheap) 24hr links.

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32 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think you are overstating this one. Holiday Inns are a solid major chain and they were the official provider for the 2008 WC in Aus, and other RL tournaments. 

They are not travelodge, they are decent hotels and a major international brand. 

Agreed. Acceptable but no more. 

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1 minute ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Yes and in year 1 Catalans travel and accommodation in the UK was funded. But then a majority wanted Catalans to be a success, sadly a majority want Toronto to fail. 

But we are not going to fail...we will succeed...we already have.

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6 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Yes and in year 1 Catalans travel and accommodation in the UK was funded. But then a majority wanted Catalans to be a success, sadly a majority want Toronto to fail. 

That brings up a point, if Toronto were based in Toronto, would super league fund their travel and accommodation over here? 

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22 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

See this is the issue. TIWIT you have been called out for suggesting that people are not happy with the hotel - so who are all these people? MoK is the only one mildly criticising Holiday Inn. You didn't reply to my challenge, you have just doubled down. 

And apparently the hotel is being picked apart, well no, this is the fake narrative at play once again. 

 

Alright, I will own up to being perhaps overly sensitive. And your own original comment was that you personally would prefer to stay closer to downtown. No problem. Your money, your choice.

But downtown costs more, and since TWP are paying the tab they ought to be thanked for finding such an compromise. Are they? Not that I can see.

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