The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[lingard]

14 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Got to feel for the players. Its crapola for the brit based players, but bug ger me, Leutele has hacked his young family across the world to find himself up sh it creek.

This is a sorry state of affairs. At therisk of incurring JD's moderation, I really hope Toronto aren't allowed back unless there is a change of owner and proof of meeting contracts payments is provided. 

Player welfare should be at the top of the list of priorities 

Robin, it’s our turn.  We all predicted this would happen.  

[Storm13]

Poor guy. Such a shame a professional sportsman isn't getting paid for a couple of months. Maybe we should start a gofundme?

[Robin Evans]

Just now, lingard said:

Robin, it’s our turn.  We all predicted this would happen.  

I'll show my botty at hartshead Moor if that comes to pass Chris.

In my opinion, it should be ourselves or London with the strongest case. Fev didn't win promotion on the field, but were losing finalists. London did but were relegated. Two strong and fair arguments for me. 

But I'm bloody certain it won't be decided that way.

 

[Robin Evans]

Just now, Storm13 said:

Poor guy. Such a shame a professional sportsman isn't getting paid for a couple of months. Maybe we should start a gofundme?

Poor form. Every employee should expect their dues.

[Storm13]

Lucky for you everyone around the world is getting their dues

[CanadianRugger]

This all could have been avoided with Central Distribution for Toronto.  End of the day, they are a business and no business is going to survive with no income, especially not a pro sports franchise.

If a new ownership group is found, that would be awesome and TWP will continue, otherwise it's been swell.  

Feel for the players who are caught in the middle but that's the reality of working in any business really.

[GeordieSaint]

9 minutes ago, lingard said:

Robin, it’s our turn.  We all predicted this would happen.  

That a global pandemic would hit shutting off a club’s entire income? 

[Chrispmartha]

5 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

This all could have been avoided with Central Distribution for Toronto.  End of the day, they are a business and no business is going to survive with no income, especially not a pro sports franchise.

If a new ownership group is found, that would be awesome and TWP will continue, otherwise it's been swell.  

Feel for the players who are caught in the middle but that's the reality of working in any business really.

I think theres a bit of head in the sand in that post to be honest.

TW seem to be badly run, central funding might have just been frittered away like the rest of the cash.

You cannot pay one player mire than the while Salary Cap in one year then moan you didn’t get central distribution and now you can’t pay players.

I want TW to succeed or wanted them to but they really haven’t helped themselves with their conduct in the last month.

[Futtocks]

4 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

That a global pandemic would hit shutting off a club’s entire income? 

Of course; remember all those times they warned us about exactly that over the last 3-4 years?

[Robin Evans]

23 minutes ago, Storm13 said:

Lucky for you everyone around the world is getting their dues

Eh??

[CanadianRugger]

5 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I think theres a bit of head in the sand in that post to be honest.

TW seem to be badly run, central funding might have just been frittered away like the rest of the cash.

You cannot pay one player mire than the while Salary Cap in one year then moan you didn’t get central distribution and now you can’t pay players.

I want TW to succeed or wanted them to but they really haven’t helped themselves with their conduct in the last month.

The funding from TWP has dried up is the issue.  Nothing about head in the sand mate.  If there were no pandemic, we wouldn't be having this discussion and I would be sitting watching TWP play on television.

Everything that could possibly go wrong has gone wrong. Major Sponsor gets bought by Air Canada.

Remember that TWP were relying on Air Transat for flights as their sponsor and the airline industry has been decimated.  Air Transat lost close to $200 million last quarter, Air Canada lost $1 Billion! 

Toronto's entire model got shredded by COVID.  If central distribution was given, they would be fine though and would be able to weather the storm.  At this time, they have no safety net, unlike the other clubs who all received Government bailouts, Central Distribution, etc.

I said on this forum two years ago, biggest danger to TWP was the RFL, Super League and the entire fanbase in England itself.

Just look at all the rat clubs coming out of the woodwork to try and feast on the carcass.

"Let us in to Super League Instead!"

[ATLANTISMAN]

Total madness I am sorry to say, cannot knock the enthusiasm though says he:)

 

Paul

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, CanadianRugger said:

The funding from TWP has dried up is the issue.  Nothing about head in the sand mate.  If there were no pandemic, we wouldn't be having this discussion and I would be sitting watching TWP play on television.

Everything that could possibly go wrong has gone wrong. Major Sponsor gets bought by Air Canada.

Remember that TWP were relying on Air Transat for flights as their sponsor and the airline industry has been decimated.  Air Transat lost close to $200 million last quarter, Air Canada lost $1 Billion! 

Toronto's entire model got shredded by COVID.  If central distribution was given, they would be fine though and would be able to weather the storm.  At this time, they have no safety net, unlike the other clubs who all received Government bailouts, Central Distribution, etc.

I said on this forum two years ago, biggest danger to TWP was the RFL, Super League and the entire fanbase in England itself.

Just look at all the rat clubs coming out of the woodwork to try and feast on the carcass.

"Let us in to Super League Instead!"

As I say head in sand if you think Toronto were going fine and dandy before Covid, it might be the thing that finishes them off, but there was issues before this.

 

they were paying SBW more than the central distribution, if they weren’t they would have had a safety net. John Wilkin has said they were paying (or not) players far too much money for it to be sustainable, they have been badly run and its biting them now.

[lingard]

 

[GUBRATS]

Not good , on any level 

[Dave T]

16 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

 

I said on this forum two years ago, biggest danger to TWP was the RFL, Super League and the entire fanbase in England itself.

Yes, everyone else's fault. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

All very sad, and that although understandable laundry is now being  washed in public.

One thing that will remain a mystery is that TR did run for 3 years and there is no way that any business would have survived that period without income in their case mainly from DA pockets.

There are no winners in this let us all remember that.

 

Paul

[Whippet13]

A ready made Toronto in the Championship does make much more sense than starting from scratch in NY, plus the RFL do seem keen to accommodate a transformed Toronto somewhere. However, gotta say I won't be betting my pension fund on this one coming off.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

All very sad, and that although understandable laundry is now being  washed in public.

One thing that will remain a mystery is that TR did run for 3 years and there is no way that any business would have survived that period without income in their case mainly from DA pockets.

There are no winners in this let us all remember that.

 

Paul

I will never criticise anybody who puts into RL clubs , thank you for trying Mr Argyle , genuinely dissapointed for you if it ends like this 

[Smudger06]

Rat Clubs? That's a new low in the continuing rabid defence of the indefensible.

[Dave T]

Just now, ATLANTISMAN said:

All very sad, and that although understandable laundry is now being  washed in public.

One thing that will remain a mystery is that TR did run for 3 years and there is no way that any business would have survived that period without income in their case mainly from DA pockets.

There are no winners in this let us all remember that.

 

Paul

It's taken the world collapsing to highlight it in an extreme way, but SLE and the RFL don't like over-reliance on a single stakeholder, although the game can't afford to be picky as many clubs are in that position. But Elstone called out this as a risk 12 months ago. As I say the circumstances have been far more extreme than any of us could have imagined, which is a real shame for the project. 

But we go back to TWP agreed to no funding and spent £5m on wages, other clubs had £1.8m funding and spent up to £2.5m on wages. That was the killer. 

The structure of the club has come to bite them on the ###### as they couldn't get government support, but that was TWPs choice, but hard to envisage the issues that would pose! 

Plenty of sympathy for them, but they brought a hell of a lot of risk on themselves with their management decisions. 

[Smudger06]

The plot becomes more ridiculous. 

[GUBRATS]

Dereck might make a bid ?

[Anadolu XIII]

There are up to seven separate bids already interested in taking over Toronto with three in active negotiation. 

Slow this down for a second for the naysayers. Even though the situation is clearly not great can you imagine your team having a line up of investors hoping to sow millions into your club. 

Unless you are in a major centre, the answer is no. 

This is an additional evidence for the NEED for clubs like Toronto that attract investment. Even when someone screws up in the most awful economic environment since the depression rich people are lining up to invest. 

If only this was a normal occurrence in Rugby League.

[Oldbear]

The players are the ones who risk their bodies, devote their lives to their careers as players, probably at the expense of pursuing a more stable career option, yet they get treated like this? I don’t care who the team is, but when player welfare becomes secondary then that club is not fit to be in the league structure.

I have my sympathies for Mr Argyle. He has invested a s**t load of money in the club, has received s**t advice from his so called rugby experts with regard to player contracts, has employed incompetent management and been hit by the global pandemic, wiping out his home fixtures and possibly his main shirt sponsor. There is no doubt he took a gamble hoping that he could fund the club and get it into a respectable SL position until the next TV contract became up for negotiation, by which time he could have negotiated a decent Canadian deal, and maybe he would have got away with it if Covid had never happened, but the late paying of suppliers shows how much a gamble he was taking. I have no sympathies for Mr Vickers and Mr Noble, wonder if they were ever paid late?

Now it looks likely that no one else fancies a game of Russian Roulette, so this is probably the end of the Wolfpack, I just hope the guys who pulled on the jersey every week, even the ones who were past their prime and out of their depth, come out of this without too much damage. For all those who scream that so and so was well paid for the past couple of years remember it’s not their fault someone decided to throw money at them and I’m sure some, like Ricky, were convinced enough to think that things were going to be fine, right up to the train crash, that perhaps they decided to move house etc and now find themselves in a tough position.