The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[wiganermike]

1 hour ago, SL17 said:

No no no.. He will only pay the debts if they remain in SL. No SL, no LiVolsi.

It's a negotiating starting point. He wants to take over ownership but wants the club to be in SL when he does (as that is where they were pre-withdrawal). If you act as if you are serious at the start your position will be taken more seriously. If he indicates potential for lessening his demands publicly then he makes it less likely that he will get something close to what he would prefer as the other side know they can get him to budge before the negotiating even begins. Unless TWP are facing a definite, no matter what is offered refusal of the application to return then both sides will make some level of compromise during the process before the application is either approved or rejected. No doubt similar hard line stances are being espoused at the SL clubs' end, its just that with more than one voice to be heard in the SL/RFL decision making we aren't hearing it as there isn't a single determined position from that side yet.

[TIWIT]

1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

Patience Tommy...we have a moral obligation to bring them along, albeit slowly....patience Tommy...we are doing the work of the Rugby Gods.

We shall save them in spite of themselves!

[Kayakman]

26 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

We shall save them in spite of themselves!

Its our civic rugby duty to try and help them and show them the way...they are in the shadows but we shall cast light upon them!

[Man of Kent]

So now we sort of know there will be no rugby crowds until the spring.

You'd think that makes it more likely SL clubs say no to Toronto given there will be less income flowing into the clubs between now and then.

[Kayakman]

3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

So now we sort of know there will be no rugby crowds until the spring.

You'd think that makes it more likely SL clubs say no to Toronto given there will be less income flowing into the clubs between now and then.

My God you are starting to sound desperate...pulling at any and all straws.  Relax, its going to play itself out...wait for Friday.  Its all going to be Okay...its all going to work out.  Prepare yourself mentally though so it doesn't come as a complete shocker.

[Toby Chopra]

3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

So now we sort of know there will be no rugby crowds until the spring.

You'd think that makes it more likely SL clubs say no to Toronto given there will be less income flowing into the clubs between now and then.

I'd say it makes them more likely to say yes to Toronto, provided they don't take a TV share in year 1. If Toronto folds and the clubs have to admit Leigh or whoever then the existing SL clubs will be down about 150k each. My guess is the TV funds is a bargaining chip for the new TWP owners, not a red line. 

The only other option is to run with 11, which until now at least has had no public support from any of the SL clubs.

[Kayakman]

5 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I'd say it makes them more likely to say yes to Toronto, provided they don't take a TV share in year 1. If Toronto folds and the clubs have to admit Leigh or whoever then the existing SL clubs will be down about 150k each. My guess is the TV funds is a bargaining chip for the new TWP owners, not a red line. 

The only other option is to run with 11, which until now at least has had no public support from any of the SL clubs.

Of course Toronto has been, and always will be, reasonable in all things.

[Adelaide Tiger]

Well I am going to say something that I hope resonates with most people on here.

Irrespective of the decision to re-admit TWP or not I will still offer my unconditional support to the game of RL and to my club Cas Tigers.

Also I will still make comment on issues across the game and continue to have a great debate with others on here that either share my view or not.

[Man of Kent]

20 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I'd say it makes them more likely to say yes to Toronto, provided they don't take a TV share in year 1. If Toronto folds and the clubs have to admit Leigh or whoever then the existing SL clubs will be down about 150k each. My guess is the TV funds is a bargaining chip for the new TWP owners, not a red line. 

The only other option is to run with 11, which until now at least has had no public support from any of the SL clubs.

But isn't Toronto demanding central funding?

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

51 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I'd say it makes them more likely to say yes to Toronto, provided they don't take a TV share in year 1. If Toronto folds and the clubs have to admit Leigh or whoever then the existing SL clubs will be down about 150k each. My guess is the TV funds is a bargaining chip for the new TWP owners, not a red line. 

The only other option is to run with 11, which until now at least has had no public support from any of the SL clubs.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the outcome is something like Toronto get 75% of what the other Super League clubs get. 

[plug]

If twp don't get there place in SL back ?? Who is it everyone thinks leigh should replace them in my eyes it should be fev who replace's them they were runners up in the million pound game in other sports if the winner gets demoted the runner up always takes there place as the winner

[Robin Evans]

59 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Of course Toronto has been, and always will be, reasonable in all things.

Aye we saw how reasonable they were at paying their players

[Robin Evans]

5 minutes ago, plug said:

If twp don't get there place in SL back ?? Who is it everyone thinks leigh should replace them in my eyes it should be fev who replace's them they were runners up in the million pound game in other sports if the winner gets demoted the runner up always takes there place as the winner

No-one

Go with 11

[Robin Evans]

52 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Well I am going to say something that I hope resonates with most people on here.

Irrespective of the decision to re-admit TWP or not I will still offer my unconditional support to the game of RL and to my club Cas Tigers.

Also I will still make comment on issues across the game and continue to have a great debate with others on here that either share my view or not.

Aye.... apart from that cas bit you make decent contributions here

[Derwent]

5 hours ago, dkw said:

A quick google to see if they make or lose money on the London games appears to be .....inconclusive ha ha. Its very difficult to see how they do, though one article says Jacksonville wanted 2 games here in 2020 to make up for losses while their stadium is being built:-

Though again, that could infer loads of things, it could be them playing on the road elsewhere loses them more moeny than they do in London etc.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.pjstar.com/sports/20160930/nfl-game-in-london-sell-out-every-time---and-still-lose-money%3ftemplate=ampart
 

 

[Harry Stottle]

7 hours ago, Kayakman said:

I don't know why some of the posters are sooooooo confused over this Tommy...its been made very clear...its like some twisted form of willful blindness or something.   The gig is up...its take it or leave it...go for it or run and hide in the shadows...no in-between now...that is probably what they are struggling with.

 

7 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

It is a bit annoying going over the same point repeatedly, especially when it is so simple.

I can't believe people do not realise that as far as LiVolsi is concerned it is SL or he walks, but what people do realise is that LiVolsi is playing a game with people's livelihood being all the player's and creditors that are owed money, quite simply he is passing the blame to the RL/SL of them not getting payed if TWP are rejected.

The simplest solution and probably the most cost effective as the land lies at the moment for SL clubs is to reject Toronto and gaurentee the players who have not been payed some compensation payed through the central funding be it 50, 75 or 100%. Up to their SC wage level. Marque players would be paid what is the % owed of 150K. So I would estimate that at the full cap level of 2.1M for saleries owed less the months already payed it would cost the SL clubs in the region of 120K each at 100% cost.

In the podcast with Brian Nobel he stated that the travel and subsistance for visiting teams cost Toronto 850K that would be 77K per club, add in the funding Toronto are demanding thats another 180K so each club are 250Kish down by readmitting Toronto.

So what do Toronto do that will increase SL clubs revenue by 250K per season at present? Anyone please, minus a TV deal is it Zilch? 

Toronto sympathisers have been 'playing' the Covid card ever since they stood back from the fixtures, but the situation with Covid is it has impacted on all the SL clubs also, they have already had a reduction on the Sky funding which is I believe 280K, so add that to the 250K Toronto would cost each club, it doesn't take much working out that refusing Toronto is the most cost effective option.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Are you familiar with Plato and his 'Allegory of the Cave'?...it is pertinent here.

Good mate of mine and Mrs Stottle was Plato?

[RobertAM]

36 minutes ago, plug said:

If twp don't get there place in SL back ?? Who is it everyone thinks leigh should replace them in my eyes it should be fev who replace's them they were runners up in the million pound game in other sports if the winner gets demoted the runner up always takes there place as the winner

of course taking into consideration the new UK restrictions which could persist for quite some time any replacement club has to survive into 2021 which cannot be guaranteed. I dont want to see any club go out of business including my own TWP. Everyone should be pulling together now more than ever.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

When is a decision due to be made? 

[Man of Kent]

1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

My God you are starting to sound desperate...pulling at any and all straws.  Relax, its going to play itself out...wait for Friday.  Its all going to be Okay...its all going to work out.  Prepare yourself mentally though so it doesn't come as a complete shocker.

It's a serious point, chief. The Super League season was rescheduled bottom-heavy for when crowds were due back next month. There's also the almost certain lack of fans at the play-offs and Grand Final, which along with Magic Weekend is worth around £2m in ticket sales.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Without a doubt, I have seen Phil Gould who is a mouth piece for the NRL these days say unequivocally and unprompted the NRL needs a strong Super League. V`landy`s, Gould, Abdo, Bennet et.al. no doubt have a grand vision for League and SL will be part of it. Please don` t take that as being patronising.

The Private Equity valuation of the NRL was released yesterday $3.1 b and they are talking about selling a 20% stake, now there has been chatter about buying a stake in SL. Don`t think it will happen yet, I don`t think they are ready, too much to sort out here after twenty years of sleepwalking while the bloody afl got under our guard. The NRL has got issues to deal with as well.

Nothing to do with sympathy Harry, its business, we`ve got a kick-ar$e product we want to take to the world, toes are going to get trodden on.

P.S. Had a letter published in the LoveRugbyLeague mailbox today, you never did give me your opinion.

 

 

For the forseeable future it could be that (if re-admitted) Toronto will play all their fixtures in the England, what would be the difference in the NRL having a Toronto representative club playing in Australia in the NRL?

If subjected to the NRL cap surely the riches we are advised are at the disposal of Toronto could procure a competitive team, then when the time comes and they can play back home in Canada travel and subsitance costs would not be a problem for the super rich NRL clubs, maybe the present NRL club's would have to give up 1/16th of their funding to accomodate Toronto but that shouldn't pose a problem, would it?

I can understand the NRL wanting a strong SL but surely if they took Toronto under their wing so to speak, and relieve SL clubs of the financial burden it could be promoted so much more effectively by the NRL in the future.

That is if as I say the NRL are not just viewing from afar and would be prepared to have some direct involvement instead of just generating noises.

Just saying.

 

[silverback]

Have they gone.4 team knockout for the spot in SL .Fev v london, leigh v Tol.

jobs a goodun,all on sky or ppv.

[Kayakman]

8 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

It's a serious point, chief. The Super League season was rescheduled bottom-heavy for when crowds were due back next month. There's also the almost certain lack of fans at the play-offs and Grand Final, which along with Magic Weekend is worth around £2m in ticket sales.

Its all going to be Okay...its all going to work out in the end.  There is great change coming with Toronto in or out....its all in a state of flux.  Better to go with Toronto so SL can hedge its bets. 

[Kayakman]

33 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

I can't believe people do not realise that as far as LiVolsi is concerned it is SL or he walks, but what people do realise is that LiVolsi is playing a game with people's livelihood being all the player's and creditors that are owed money, quite simply he is passing the blame to the RL/SL of them not getting payed if TWP are rejected.

The simplest solution and probably the most cost effective as the land lies at the moment for SL clubs is to reject Toronto and gaurentee the players who have not been payed some compensation payed through the central funding be it 50, 75 or 100%. Up to their SC wage level. Marque players would be paid what is the % owed of 150K. So I would estimate that at the full cap level of 2.1M for saleries owed less the months already payed it would cost the SL clubs in the region of 120K each at 100% cost.

In the podcast with Brian Nobel he stated that the travel and subsistance for visiting teams cost Toronto 850K that would be 77K per club, add in the funding Toronto are demanding thats another 180K so each club are 250Kish down by readmitting Toronto.

So what do Toronto do that will increase SL clubs revenue by 250K per season at present? Anyone please, minus a TV deal is it Zilch? 

Toronto sympathisers have been 'playing' the Covid card ever since they stood back from the fixtures, but the situation with Covid is it has impacted on all the SL clubs also, they have already had a reduction on the Sky funding which is I believe 280K, so add that to the 250K Toronto would cost each club, it doesn't take much working out that recusing Toronto is the most cost effective option.

Relax Harry...you are getting worked up again....

[Man of Kent]

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Without a doubt, I have seen Phil Gould who is a mouth piece for the NRL these days say unequivocally and unprompted the NRL needs a strong Super League. V`landy`s, Gould, Abdo, Bennet et.al. no doubt have a grand vision for League and SL will be part of it. Please don` t take that as being patronising.

The Private Equity valuation of the NRL was released yesterday $3.1 b and they are talking about selling a 20% stake, now there has been chatter about buying a stake in SL. Don`t think it will happen yet, I don`t think they are ready, too much to sort out here after twenty years of sleepwalking while the bloody afl got under our guard. The NRL has got issues to deal with as well.

Nothing to do with sympathy Harry, its business, we`ve got a kick-ar$e product we want to take to the world, toes are going to get trodden on.

P.S. Had a letter published in the LoveRugbyLeague mailbox today, you never did give me your opinion.

 

 

How likely is that the NRL would invest in Super League instead of, say, property (stadia) in Sydney.