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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread


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7 minutes ago, SL17 said:

So what’s your feelings and opinion now the daunting hour approaches?

I'm not too worried...it will have to play itself out one way or another...it is what it is.  Let the cards fall.

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Just now, SL17 said:

Indeed. Do you think Mr Argyle still has impetus on this deal going through? It seems he has walked away but not if you see what I mean.

There is always a joker in the deck!

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3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

`Unconditional` that`s a big call mate. You mean there is nothing that would put you off the game of Rugby League.

I think A.T. you are a walking advertisement for getting kids to the game when they are little. You`ve still got those stars in your eyes from standing in the stands with your old man.😉🙂.

 

 

Yep unconditional.  I cannot think of anything that could put me off RL.

I have seen IMHO appalling decisions made over the years by people in power but no bad decision will ever affect my love for the sport.  I find it incomprehensible that people would walk away from the game if a decision was made that they disagreed with.

No matter how deep my support for Cas is, I have always believed that the game is bigger and if some day Cas are not afforded a chair at the big table then I can accept that if it means the game is moving forward. 

I accept that I might be in a minority of one 😄 but I can live with that.

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28 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Yep unconditional.  I cannot think of anything that could put me off RL.

I have seen IMHO appalling decisions made over the years by people in power but no bad decision will ever affect my love for the sport.  I find it incomprehensible that people would walk away from the game if a decision was made that they disagreed with.

No matter how deep my support for Cas is, I have always believed that the game is bigger and if some day Cas are not afforded a chair at the big table then I can accept that if it means the game is moving forward. 

I accept that I might be in a minority of one 😄 but I can live with that.

That's what I call a league man.Make that two.

That's why I say give Toronto  another go.They have lot to offer the game.

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6 hours ago, Kayakman said:

If you were in management and put in nothing then you could indeed get back nothing and break even.  If only the hard working fellow on the factory floor could be included that would be nice but alas it rarely happens (sometimes though with honest companies/organizations).

What the blazes is this K`man ?  You`re a Commie. "Workers united , Will never be defeated". 👍

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10 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

This comment belies it all H. That is surely a worst case scenario that sees half a squad unemployed and a club no longer in existence.

Your option is based on not wanting Toronto in the league covid or not. That's fine, but its far easier debating when we're all clear about that.

I said the correct option in the context of the discussion in respect of it being more cost effective for incumbant SL clubs than admitting Toronto. Previously I highlighted how Toronto's re-admittance would affect clubs financially, but as you accuse me of my answers being guided by my not wanting Toronto in our League system, I would say yours without contradiction are influenced by your opposite desire.

Again, in the absence of gaining a TV deal how will Toronto bring money to the SL clubs or the pot? The guru in these matters Mr Perez stated it will not happen till we have 4 or more Canadian clubs in SL!

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9 hours ago, PhilCarrington said:

Depends what the prospective owner buys. If they buy the company they take on the assets AND the liabilities... this is not to (sic) hard to figure.😍

I have done both being a "Full Aquisition" and also just an 'Asset' purchase Phil, where liabilities past, present or future emanating from the previous ownership stay with the previous company, as Tommygilf informed us earlier Mr LiVolsi will honour most debts except one (I don't know what that is) so are we to assume that this an Asset purchase even if it is only for $1.

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6 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Sounds like a good deal and good on ya.

Now the salmon is different...it sounds like you are probably eating canned salmon.  If it comes from a fish farm I do not eat it period (fresh or canned)...when you say red you probably mean sockeye which is better from the can than pink no doubt.

Fresh salmon caught by yourself is best.  Those little pinks are good to snag on a cheater line..I just gut'em and put them on the grill...tasty.  I've caught and eaten all the salmon types...wild Atlantic salmon is the best tasting, especially on the grill (far better than sockeye) but a coho is nice too.  I've had King salmon and had all types served in many ways....chinook is probably the best all around but wild Atlantic grilled is my favourite.  I haven't caught a big one in a while though.

A friend I work with caught a good one a few days ago in the river by my place and I gave him a recipe to chunk it (large) and do it down in Mason Jars (better than cans).  We will be eating on it soon.

Try to stay away from farmed salmon...its ######.

I used to like the New Westminster Salmon Bellies.

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8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I said the correct option in the context of the discussion in respect of it being more cost effective for incumbant SL clubs than admitting Toronto. Previously I highlighted how Toronto's re-admittance would affect clubs financially, but as you accuse me of my answers being guided by my not wanting Toronto in our League system, I would say yours without contradiction are influenced by your opposite desire.

Again, in the absence of gaining a TV deal how will Toronto bring money to the SL clubs or the pot? The guru in these matters Mr Perez stated it will not happen till we have 4 or more Canadian clubs in SL!

I am openly in favour of Toronto being in the league (as I am for all RL clubs and more), I consider myself somewhat more realistic than others but my basic stance is that their presence is a good thing.

That fundamentally puts us in different positions discussing this topic as no matter what Toronto did there would just be another reason emerge why they shouldn't be in: costs/TV deal/player development. These aren't things brought up with a well intentioned "how best can we help Toronto and Canada get these for the sports benefit", they're the same comments that have been used against every team from outside our little northern club since day 1. And ultimately from those advancing it the exact same conclusion as every other time, "not worth it". Toronto, by its scale, has exposed this to new levels. 

TV deals will only come when Super League gets its ambitions and priorities in order.

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15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I have done both being a "Full Aquisition" and also just an 'Asset' purchase Phil, where liabilities past, present or future emanating from the previous ownership stay with the previous company, as Tommygilf informed us earlier Mr LiVolsi will honour most debts except one (I don't know what that is) so are we to assume that this an Asset purchase even if it is only for $1.

The 1 unpaid debt is the biggest one, ie, Argyle's multi million pound/dollar investment, which Argyle has written off.

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I am openly in favour of Toronto being in the league (as I am for all RL clubs and more), I consider myself somewhat more realistic than others but my basic stance is that their presence is a good thing.

That fundamentally puts us in different positions discussing this topic as no matter what Toronto did there would just be another reason emerge why they shouldn't be in: costs/TV deal/player development. These aren't things brought up with a well intentioned "how best can we help Toronto and Canada get these for the sports benefit", they're the same comments that have been used against every team from outside our little northern club since day 1. And ultimately from those advancing it the exact same conclusion as every other time, "not worth it". Toronto, by its scale, has exposed this to new levels. 

TV deals will only come when Super League gets its ambitions and priorities in order.

So basically Tommy, admit Toronto on a wing and a prayer, or another way suck it and see if the flavour works?

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Just now, Tommygilf said:

No, refer to Dave T's earlier post which I "agree 100%"

I was going to qoute your reaction to that but thought if Mr LiVolsi has not already presented such documentation there would not be enough time before Friday to do so, if not would you suggest a referral on the decision be put back till he can?

But irrespective Tommy, all the money to put into the SL pot will be based on Toronto obtaining a TV deal, Mr LiVolsi is just financing the club.

But I have far more worries and concerns than just the TV deal which I believe will affect the clubs and the game over here if there are multiple teams in North America, on my 'crib' sheet of plus and minuses, you have highlighted just 3.

 

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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

I was going to qoute your reaction to that but thought if Mr LiVolsi has not already presented such documentation there would not be enough time before Friday to do so, if not would you suggest a referral on the decision be put back till he can?

But irrespective Tommy, all the money to put into the SL pot will be based on Toronto obtaining a TV deal, Mr LiVolsi is just financing the club.

But I have far more worries and concerns than just the TV deal which I believe will affect the clubs and the game over here if there are multiple teams in North America, on my 'crib' sheet of plus and minuses, you have highlighted just 3.

 

He's presented an 80 page document supposedly and this week is a major decision week. So I think he has. We're not at liberty to see that and nor really should we be.

What sort of TV deal can they get? Currently the Canadian rights for SL were sold for peanuts in 2015. So 2021 yet again is a massive opportunity, but its Super League that need to sell themselves - if they want the Wolfpack ownership to spearhead that in Canada it may help. But they're going to hit the obvious stumbling block that companies are only going to pay for 1 year at a time whilst Canadian representation in the competition is on that basis.

Those worries and concerns are I'm sure multiple and numerous and also simply an increased level of the same worries and concerns levelled at Toulouse, Catalans, Crusaders, London, Sheffield, Gateshead, Nottingham, Highfield etc.

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9 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Toronto's reinclusion has to be in the best interests of our game.

I doubt few, if any on here have all the info/numbers to make that call.

Of course, the debate then shifts as to what is in the best interests ofvthe game.

Totally agree Robin,

At our company when in the boardroom discussing a new product or venture, I would instruct half of those in attendance to tell me why we should go ahead with the project and the others if we should stop it immediately before it costs, but I would purposefully choose them to comment on the opposite they believed in, it is quite revealing when people have to delve deeper than just face value, eventually we would come up with "what is in the best interests of the company" and I would like to think we were there are there abouts correct most if the time.

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5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Totally agree Robin,

At our company when in the boardroom discussing a new product or venture, I would instruct half of those in attendance to tell me why we should go ahead with the project and the others if we should stop it immediately before it costs, but I would purposefully choose them to comment on the opposite they believed in, it is quite revealing when people have to delve deeper than just face value, eventually we would come up with "what is in the best interests of the company" and I would like to think we were there are there abouts correct most if the time.

This is quite a common way of doing it.. done it throughout my time even at university doing history it was a common tactic by the lecturers to make you think differently.. 

I just cannot imagine the RFL board doing this... 

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7 hours ago, SL17 said:

I’m not ignoring anyone and pretty sure canoeboy isn’t. Post reported @TheReaper

That's HIM ignoring YOU, not the other way around. He's hinting unsubtly that you two post a lot.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Totally agree Robin,

At our company when in the boardroom discussing a new product or venture, I would instruct half of those in attendance to tell me why we should go ahead with the project and the others if we should stop it immediately before it costs, but I would purposefully choose them to comment on the opposite they believed in, it is quite revealing when people have to delve deeper than just face value, eventually we would come up with "what is in the best interests of the company" and I would like to think we were there are there abouts correct most if the time.

We are both a believer in p&r. But that doesn't mean anti-expansion.

I genuinely feel Toulouse is a much better prospect if we are serious about developing the game. The costs, logistics and access to player pool are there and a second french club would massively improve the french appeal.... not that it needs improving for me.

Toronto.... seems fanciful to me. I really can't see anything but obstacles with logistics but I can be convinced otherwise. If you've ever been to Lamport H, its a cracking experience if the weather is ok.

Given the likely yay/nay clubs I'm not confident they are capable of making the right decision. We'll see

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

how will Toronto bring money to the SL clubs or the pot? 

If we're using that line of thinking to discredit the merits of Toronto (or any other expansion club), surely we have to ask this of any prospective Super League club?

How would Bradford bring money to the SL clubs or the pot? How would Leigh bring any money to the pot? How would Newcastle bring any money to the pot? 

It's not as if there is a huge pent-up demand for Sky Sports subscriptions in Featherstone that can only be realised once Rovers are in Super League. Nor is it the case that <1,000 Batley fans rocking up to the "away end" at Headingley represents a material change to the club's finances. 

If you want to apply that line of thinking, I think the question to ask is whether a club adds value to the Super League brand - does it help that brand to reach new audiences (either in the UK or overseas) which would in turn improve the value of Super League long-term. I'd make the argument that TW does that. 

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Just now, whatmichaelsays said:

If we're using that line of thinking to discredit the merits of Toronto (or any other expansion club), surely we have to ask this of any prospective Super League club?

How would Bradford bring money to the SL clubs or the pot? How would Leigh bring any money to the pot? How would Newcastle bring any money to the pot? 

Its not going to cost £50k to take your team to the LSV or post office road

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