The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Toby Chopra]

4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Totally agree and it seems to me Elstone is calling the bluff on all this BS to see if the Perez Plan (Toronto and Toronto MkII) is viable or not. 

Elstone has always been hostile to Toronto.

His plan when he arrived was to make RL much more popular and relevant in the north in cities like Liverpool and Manchester, tapping into football audiences, because that was his background. Toronto's arrival - which he had no say in - distracted from that, so he's always made it difficult for them. But they'd paid the RFL for entry and turned a few heads among SL chairmen, so he couldn't ultimately say no. 

Now's his chance. 

[Spidey]

A split from the RFL could cause issues for SL. RFL administer reserves, academy, challenge cup and provide match officials. SL needs to ensure it’s an amicable split if they go down that route.

[TIWIT]

I hate to be the one amongst all this celebratory Toronto-is-dead back slapping to point out that SL didn't say no. They could have and that would be the end, but clearly others saw flaws that could be corrected and postponed their final decision.

What Elstone probably didn't like was that LiVolsi didn't knuckle under and accept SL's terms and actually tried to negotiate with them.

[yipyee]

11 minutes ago, Spidey said:

A split from the RFL could cause issues for SL. RFL administer reserves, academy, challenge cup and provide match officials. SL needs to ensure it’s an amicable split if they go down that route.

RFL could get a TV deal for the championship and take it full time, and this isnt too far fetched

Toronto, Ottowa, London, Toulouse, Widnes, Newcastle, Leigh, Fev, Sheffield

All with money to throw at players.. could get messy.

Imagine SL with no match officials, bo challenge cup etc...

[Harry Stottle]

13 minutes ago, Spidey said:

A split from the RFL could cause issues for SL. RFL administer reserves, academy, challenge cup and provide match officials. SL needs to ensure it’s an amicable split if they go down that route.

They won't split Spidey.

[yipyee]

1 minute ago, TIWIT said:

I hate to be the one amongst all this celebratory Toronto-is-dead back slapping to point out that SL didn't say no. They could have and that would be the end, but clearly others saw flaws that could be corrected and postponed their final decision.

What Elstone probably didn't like was that LiVolsi didn't knuckle under and accept SL's terms and actually tried to negotiate with them.

Agreed,

I think they have said off the record we will let you in with the same deal as last time, go away and see if you can do this.

 

[yipyee]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

They won't split Spidey.

If they dont accept Toronto then P&R will be dead.

And the split will have happened

[CanadianRugger]

8 hours ago, The Rocket said:

O.K. if there were meant to be no WolfPack representatives there ,good, that clears that up.

I like the  look of the time line, it looks well ordered. However what happened to the September 18th announcement on sanctions to be applied.

And if a meeting had already taken place between LiVolsi and Super League surely they could have cleared up exactly what was going to be required. Let`s hope as CanadianRugger suggested it`s just details.

The optimist in us is hard to extinguish, but Elstone words were 'disappointed", I know nothing about the man so I don`t know his manner, maybe I am putting the wrong slant on that response. Maybe this is just another negotiating ploy, i.e. `not good enough come back with something better`. We live in hope.

I didn't find Elstone's comments that bad.  I took it as there are issues where he, SL and TWP are not on the same sheet of music.  

That's fine, now we have an opportunity for them to align themselves.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, yipyee said:

If they dont accept Toronto then P&R will be dead.

And the split will have happened

If they do accept Toronto I would say there is more chance that P&R will be no more LiVolsi says he wants 3 years free from relegation, accepting Toronto will set the precedent if they can have it then others will want the same protection.

[RobertAM]

Think they need to be doing a "stress test" for every club similar to how they assess the strength of banks during a financial crisis..if this plague and attendant upheaval persists well into 2021 the Toronto issue may be moot. I cannot see the UK Government throwing more money at sport..ours said no from the off and while the NHL and MLB have massive resources the much smaller CFL is on life support.

[yipyee]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

If they do accept Toronto I would say there is more chance that P&R will be no more LiVolsi says he wants 3 years free from relegation, accepting Toronto will set the precedent if they can have it then others will want the same protection.

Yeah, dont see how they can do this as they were in SL via promotion.

If SL can pick and choose who to let in and recieve funding then P&R is dead. 

If this happens a breakaway is inevitable as sky hold the rights to the lower leagues but the RFL would have the freedom to sell these. Also they could exclude SL from the CC with more money going to the champ clubs

[yipyee]

7 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

I didn't find Elstone's comments that bad.  I took it as there are issues where he, SL and TWP are not on the same sheet of music.  

That's fine, now we have an opportunity for them to align themselves.

These are probably that the only viable deal is the original deal.

He wants equal to the other clubs as a bare minimum and rightly so

[TIWIT]

Super League is currently facing a fight for its own survival and thus has declining interest in the RFL and the lower leagues, so the split between SL and RFL is only going to grow. 

[Harry Stottle]

17 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Super League is currently facing a fight for its own survival and thus has declining interest in the RFL and the lower leagues, so the split between SL and RFL is only going to grow. 

They can't afford to ostracise towns and area's that have a Rugby League heritage and actually produce player's it will be like undermining the foundations, what do you suggest draft in teams like Toronto, Ottawa, and NY to add to the player pool? 

[Jayme2020]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

They can't afford to ostracise towns and area's that have a Rugby League heritage and actually produce player's it will be like undermining the foundations, what do you suggest draft in teams like Toronto, Ottawa, and NY to add to the player pool? 

That comes with a risk if you say no to the North American teams and they end up creating a new super league with a European division it could be more appealing to many teams leaving RFL with a few teams.

[Jayme2020]

1 hour ago, RobertAM said:

Think they need to be doing a "stress test" for every club similar to how they assess the strength of banks during a financial crisis..if this plague and attendant upheaval persists well into 2021 the Toronto issue may be moot. I cannot see the UK Government throwing more money at sport..ours said no from the off and while the NHL and MLB have massive resources the much smaller CFL is on life support.

The CFL is not on life support as with the NHl is not in as good shape as some think if there is another season with no fans you could see 8-10 teams fold.

[RobertAM]

33 minutes ago, Jayme2020 said:

The CFL is not on life support as with the NHl is not in as good shape as some think if there is another season with no fans you could see 8-10 teams fold.

"The CFL, I'll say it again, is a league that's been on life support for a number of years"  Richard Powers, Associate Professor, Rotman School of Management

[Blind side johnny]

2 hours ago, TIWIT said:

I hate to be the one amongst all this celebratory Toronto-is-dead back slapping to point out that SL didn't say no. They could have and that would be the end, but clearly others saw flaws that could be corrected and postponed their final decision.

What Elstone probably didn't like was that LiVolsi didn't knuckle under and accept SL's terms and actually tried to negotiate with them.

Maybe, but you are actually guessing just as much as anyone else aren't you? Unusually for SL none of the chairmen seem yet to have leaked the "real" story to the press, so clearly they are keeping all of the cards close to their chests.

My personal view (i.e. guess) is that they don't really want TWP in , especially under current circumstances, but want to avoid being painted with the flat-earthers brush, so are going through a due diligence process of sorts with the real intention of saying "No". After this then they can say "We did the best that we could but the other lot let us down." 

[DimmestStar]

The sport cannot afford to commit £2million a year to someone who openly admitted he didn't put much time or effort into his application. He doesn't even like Rugby League and is simply looking for ways to promote his grooming products in new markets. IMO.

He has insulted our sport and BTW his organisation still owes the players their wages whether they are or are not admitted back in. He has said that he will not pay unless he gets what he wants but sorry he should pay up anyway. He has been involved in the club all along right? He's playing a game of emotional blackmail.

Today's decision is just delaying the inevitable. Neil Hudgell's idea of 11 teams in 2021 with a new team promoted every year for 3 years until we have 14 teams was much derided but I've not heard a better one.

That would give the current 11 clubs a vital financial cushion during what is going to be an incredibly difficult 2021 and then the likes of Toulouse , Leigh, London and Featherstone etc have 3 chances of promotion. Or even Toronto if they are prepared to start again in the championship......now that would show some commitment but pigs might fly.

[Blind side johnny]

2 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

The sport cannot afford to commit £2million a year to someone who openly admitted he didn't put much time or effort into his application. He doesn't even like Rugby League and is simply looking for ways to promote his grooming products in new markets. IMO.

He has insulted our sport and BTW his organisation still owes the players their wages whether they are or are not admitted back in. He has said that he will not pay unless he gets what he wants but sorry he should pay up anyway. He has been involved in the club all along right? He's playing a game of emotional blackmail.

I agree in principle but he hasn't yet actually bought TWP, so has no current liability for those debts

[TheReaper]

20 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

He has insulted our sport and BTW his organisation still owes the players their wages whether they are or are not admitted back in. He has said that he will not pay unless he gets what he wants but sorry he should pay up anyway. He has been involved in the club all along right? He's playing a game of emotional blackmail.

He likely contributed cash to the ownership company,  LLC or Ltd. Or whatever. If that company is bankrupt it goes through that process, but he isn't personally responsible for any more than he's put in.

What he is offering,  but hasn't yet, is either taking over the previous company with new cash, or setting up a new company to buy the old one.

 

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

They can't afford to ostracise towns and area's that have a Rugby League heritage and actually produce player's it will be like undermining the foundations, what do you suggest draft in teams like Toronto, Ottawa, and NY to add to the player pool? 

Isnt this the same as BARLA and the RFL

[Tommygilf]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

They can't afford to ostracise towns and area's that have a Rugby League heritage and actually produce player's it will be like undermining the foundations, what do you suggest draft in teams like Toronto, Ottawa, and NY to add to the player pool? 

Those same places have been complaining about being ostracised by the RFL for the past 30 years, and almost certainly will be for the next 30 years, Toronto or not.

[TIWIT]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

They can't afford to ostracise towns and area's that have a Rugby League heritage and actually produce player's it will be like undermining the foundations, what do you suggest draft in teams like Toronto, Ottawa, and NY to add to the player pool? 

The current system isn't working. The game has been slowly dying for years - less participation, smaller crowds, just generally declining interest - all of it leading to less money to go around. And now Super League wants to keep it all. The pandemic has merely accelerated the process. 

If the game is not currently in crisis mode it soon will be when Sky's offer for the new contract comes in. And yet you and others here just keep going on as if once we get rid of the distracting North Americans everything will be perfect when you're really just whistling past the graveyard.

 

[TIWIT]

1 hour ago, DimmestStar said:

The sport cannot afford to commit £2million a year to someone who openly admitted he didn't put much time or effort into his application. He doesn't even like Rugby League and is simply looking for ways to promote his grooming products in new markets. IMO.

He has insulted our sport and BTW his organisation still owes the players their wages whether they are or are not admitted back in. He has said that he will not pay unless he gets what he wants but sorry he should pay up anyway. He has been involved in the club all along right? He's playing a game of emotional blackmail.

Today's decision is just delaying the inevitable. Neil Hudgell's idea of 11 teams in 2021 with a new team promoted every year for 3 years until we have 14 teams was much derided but I've not heard a better one.

That would give the current 11 clubs a vital financial cushion during what is going to be an incredibly difficult 2021 and then the likes of Toulouse , Leigh, London and Featherstone etc have 3 chances of promotion. Or even Toronto if they are prepared to start again in the championship......now that would show some commitment but pigs might fly.

I must admit you have picked an apt name for yourself. No vague accusations. Just flat-out statements that have no basis in reality... Although if you can come up with some sources for your ridiculous statements I will be happy to apologise.

But if you can't, will you?