The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[TIWIT]

When is the decision on the new TV deal to be announced?

[Manxmanc]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Getting it back on topic...

Robert Elstone wants proof it is worth having a Super League team in Canada

Discussions also ongoing about whether to go with 11 or 12 next year.

Interesting - confirming that the potential viability of RL in North American has a significant place in the discussion. That has to bring Ottawa into the equation. I wonder whether Eric Perez is going to appear over the horizon.

[Manx RL]

13 minutes ago, Manxmanc said:

Interesting - confirming that the potential viability of RL in North American has a significant place in the discussion. That has to bring Ottawa into the equation. I wonder whether Eric Perez is going to appear over the horizon.

Appearing over the horizon like Michael Barrymores TV career 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, TIWIT said:

When is the decision on the new TV deal to be announced?

There is another year left yet, so could be another 12m really. 

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, TIWIT said:

When is the decision on the new TV deal to be announced?

Probably when the negotiations have been completed. Definitely not before then.

 

HTH

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, Manxmanc said:

Interesting - confirming that the potential viability of RL in North American has a significant place in the discussion. That has to bring Ottawa into the equation. I wonder whether Eric Perez is going to appear over the horizon.

Nope, read it again. He says the question is about the viability of SL in Canada, Toronto specifically. No reference nor implication of any question about Ottawa.

SL and RL aren't the same thing at all. The difference may appear subtle but it is real.

[Jayme2020]

21 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Nope, read it again. He says the question is about the viability of SL in Canada, Toronto specifically. No reference nor implication of any question about Ottawa.

SL and RL aren't the same thing at all. The difference may appear subtle but it is real.

I find it interesting people go on about Toronto and Ottawa but nothing about New York.

[Big Picture]

18 minutes ago, Jayme2020 said:

I find it interesting people go on about Toronto and Ottawa but nothing about New York.

The New York bid being headed by a guy from Huddersfield, likely most posters don't see it as serious prospect to happen.

[Manxmanc]

49 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Nope, read it again. He says the question is about the viability of SL in Canada, Toronto specifically. No reference nor implication of any question about Ottawa.

SL and RL aren't the same thing at all. The difference may appear subtle but it is real.

Agreed - they aren't the same thing, but looking ahead (and future planning has to be part of the discussion) the presence of Ottawa and, I would suggest, New York, has to be relevant.

(Just a thought - if TWP don't get into Super League, they could elect to drop to League 1, cut costs drastically and set up an immediate rivalry with Ottawa - the following year, one of the teams could have another NA rival in New York)

 

[PREPOSTEROUS]

Still feel the better way forward is putting all the effort/money into setting up a Canadian/NA league and looking to bring in imports from Australia/UK/France. Surely that would capture the imagination of the supporters more by playing against names they recognise as opposed to places they likely never heard of. Toronto vs Ottowa is surely more enticing than Toronto vs Trinity/Farts/Salford or even some of the big boys from small northern towns. 

[lucky 7]

4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Getting it back on topic...

Robert Elstone wants proof it is worth having a Super League team in Canada

Discussions also ongoing about whether to go with 11 or 12 next year.

IF i was a Super League chairman i would want proof that Robert Elstone is worth the money he's being paid as i see no evidence of it yet.

[Jayme2020]

27 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Still feel the better way forward is putting all the effort/money into setting up a Canadian/NA league and looking to bring in imports from Australia/UK/France. Surely that would capture the imagination of the supporters more by playing against names they recognise as opposed to places they likely never heard of. Toronto vs Ottowa is surely more enticing than Toronto vs Trinity/Farts/Salford or even some of the big boys from small northern towns. 

That could do a huge amount of damage to the RFL and the SL.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

32 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Still feel the better way forward is putting all the effort/money into setting up a Canadian/NA league and looking to bring in imports from Australia/UK/France. Surely that would capture the imagination of the supporters more by playing against names they recognise as opposed to places they likely never heard of. Toronto vs Ottowa is surely more enticing than Toronto vs Trinity/Farts/Salford or even some of the big boys from small northern towns. 

And how many RL 'names' do you suppose the average TWP supporter recognises? 

[CanadianRugger]

39 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Still feel the better way forward is putting all the effort/money into setting up a Canadian/NA league and looking to bring in imports from Australia/UK/France. Surely that would capture the imagination of the supporters more by playing against names they recognise as opposed to places they likely never heard of. Toronto vs Ottowa is surely more enticing than Toronto vs Trinity/Farts/Salford or even some of the big boys from small northern towns. 

You underestimate the cultural value of the British teams in a place like Canada.  You see this in Canadian Rugby Union, where a game against big bad ole Uncle Sam will struggle to break 5 digits but a game against Wales, Ireland, Scotland, NZ Maori, England, etc will easily draw 20k+ for a test.

The biggest advantage British Rugby League has going for it in a place like NA is it's history and perceived elite status.  

I am 100% convinced top flight rugby league can work in Canada long term commercially.  I am way less convinced it can work in the United States which is why I am always surprised at Rugby Rugby league's obsession with the US, both in England and Down Under.

[TIWIT]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

There is another year left yet, so could be another 12m really. 

So the Toronto matter will be settled one way or the other by then.

I still think Sky's decision holds a lot of weight. Do they perceive TWP as an asset to SL, and Not just in the sense that they could sell broadcast rights here for more.

But rather that the presence of Toronto makes SL seem more, well, super. They could become the signature team, the Barcelona, Man U, NY Yankees, dare I say it, the Toronto Maple Leafs... teams that have the largest fan bases but are also hated. Their fans tune in to watch them win; even more tune in to watch them lose.

And that is the value to Sky - or any other broadcaster. Love 'em or hate 'em, people watch them.

[TIWIT]

1 hour ago, Jayme2020 said:

That could do a huge amount of damage to the RFL and the SL.

They had their chance...

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Still feel the better way forward is putting all the effort/money into setting up a Canadian/NA league and looking to bring in imports from Australia/UK/France. Surely that would capture the imagination of the supporters more by playing against names they recognise as opposed to places they likely never heard of. Toronto vs Ottawa [I corrected your spelling there] is surely more enticing than Toronto vs Trinity/Farts/Salford or even some of the big boys from small northern towns. 

A North American league wouldn't be distinctive enough to draw the crowds and TV audiences needed for a new league's success to a sport which hardly anyone over here knows about, the transatlantic element is needed for that.  That said I agree with you that the likes of Toronto don't mix well with the small time outfits which make up the so-called "Super League" and that a new league is needed for them to play in.  It just needs to be a transatlantic league, not just a North American league.

1 hour ago, CanadianRugger said:

You underestimate the cultural value of the British teams in a place like Canada.  You see this in Canadian Rugby Union, where a game against big bad ole Uncle Sam will struggle to break 5 digits but a game against Wales, Ireland, Scotland, NZ Maori, England, etc will easily draw 20k+ for a test.

The biggest advantage British Rugby League has going for it in a place like NA is it's history and perceived elite status.  

I am 100% convinced top flight rugby league can work in Canada long term commercially.  I am way less convinced it can work in the United States which is why I am always surprised at Rugby Rugby league's obsession with the US, both in England and Down Under.

Can that perceived elite status survive Canadians discovering just how small time the "Super League" is though?  Likely not for too long.

[TIWIT]

I think people here find the very name 'Super League' kind of pretentious. Really, what's so super about it? Premier or National League or even International League seem more fitting.

[Liverpool Rover]

7 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Getting it back on topic...

Robert Elstone wants proof it is worth having a Super League team in Canada

Discussions also ongoing about whether to go with 11 or 12 next year.

Was that Elstone talking or the clubs? The NBA and MLB saw Toronto as a worthwhile place for a team but yet Super League have a chance to have a foothold in the NA sports market and they seemingly don’t want to know about it.

[Kayakman]

Elstone clearly is the problem....the big clubs are for Toronto and everybody is waiting on Sky.   Sky will be calling the shots on this one eventually.

[ojx]

3 hours ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Still feel the better way forward is putting all the effort/money into setting up a Canadian/NA league and looking to bring in imports from Australia/UK/France. Surely that would capture the imagination of the supporters more by playing against names they recognise as opposed to places they likely never heard of. Toronto vs Ottowa is surely more enticing than Toronto vs Trinity/Farts/Salford or even some of the big boys from small northern towns. 

Indeed. If only the money already spent on TWP had gone into setting up a good quality summer league of six teams based in the North East of America/Canada. Teams made up. of good quality imports (below SL/NRL level) mixed with a few locals.  This is how the NHL started.

[RobertAM]

4 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Nope, read it again. He says the question is about the viability of SL in Canada, Toronto specifically. No reference nor implication of any question about Ottawa.

SL and RL aren't the same thing at all. The difference may appear subtle but it is real.

While Elstone mentions "the viability of SuperLeague in Canada"  the SL written statement specifically states "Rugby League in Canada" so either someone cocked up the release or Elstone misspoke..so which is it??

[Quolls2020]

4 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Nope, read it again. He says the question is about the viability of SL in Canada, Toronto specifically. No reference nor implication of any question about Ottawa.

SL and RL aren't the same thing at all. The difference may appear subtle but it is real.

True, but:

let’s just imagine

Toronto are excluded from SL by majority vote of the SL board because they don’t believe that either Toronto or any  NA rugby Team is a viable option for SL.

RFL invites Toronto into the championship or L1 together with Ottawa, and later NY.

the super league board then votes that new criteria is required to join the league, and any promotion is provisional. Criteria could include that any promoted side Must be European based.

on the super league board there are (currently) 11 SL team votes, the SL CEO vote and 1 RFL vote. (I think that’s the way it is, but any correction would be appreciated)

of course that could lead to an official separation of the RFL & SL, but in practical purposes they are nearly there now.

then inclusion in SL could be by invitation only.

[TIWIT]

1 hour ago, ojx said:

Indeed. If only the money already spent on TWP had gone into setting up a good quality summer league of six teams based in the North East of America/Canada. Teams made up. of good quality imports (below SL/NRL level) mixed with a few locals.  This is how the NHL started.

That would put them head-to-head against RU"s MLR.

OF course pulling out of Canada now hands NA to Union as MLR is very organized with TV deals.

But the Toronto Wolfpack are (were) NA's most successful professional rugby team.

[Niels]

4 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

You underestimate the cultural value of the British teams in a place like Canada.  You see this in Canadian Rugby Union, where a game against big bad ole Uncle Sam will struggle to break 5 digits but a game against Wales, Ireland, Scotland, NZ Maori, England, etc will easily draw 20k+ for a test.

The biggest advantage British Rugby League has going for it in a place like NA is it's history and perceived elite status.  

I am 100% convinced top flight rugby league can work in Canada long term commercially.  I am way less convinced it can work in the United States which is why I am always surprised at Rugby Rugby league's obsession with the US, both in England and Down Under.

I think this is an excellent point.

I remember the Toronto fans on here were excited about playing Batley and Hunslet because they are traditional rugby league teams. 

People forget they had large crowds for these games at Toronto also.